PDA

View Full Version : New 38 coming?



jkd
22nd July 2009, 08:20 PM
The delivery crew for R&C has this as his next delivery on his blog. Going from Cape Town to Annapolis soon.
Nothing listed on the R&C or Moorings web sites that I can find.
Anyone have any info on a "new" 38 coming out?

http://www.sailblogs.com/member/deliveries/ (http://www.sailblogs.com/member/deliveries/)

John

taifun
22nd July 2009, 09:04 PM
Some more here from Sunsail. (http://www.sunsail.eu/yachts/fleet/catamaran/l38?redirect=true)

Thomas

LoneStar
22nd July 2009, 11:00 PM
Interesting, here are a few more views of it http://www.morrellimelvin.com/recreational/sailing/performance/index.php?WEBYEP_DI=35&OPENTREES=WYMUTREE_0_7|

jkd
23rd July 2009, 01:17 AM
Well, they're not using the same molds as the old 38/3800, that's for sure. Different hull shape and different deck/salon roof shape. The transoms look like someone's after market extensions. They went with the Lagoon window style in front and the bimini hard top and dingy lift are nothing they have produced before.
I'll be looking forward to some more interior shots.
Can't help but wonder if Sunsail isn't going to be eating a bunch of these if the contract was probably signed before the economy went to junk and all the charter markets went down.

John

IreAneY
23rd July 2009, 08:47 AM
According to the Sunsail website the New 384 is exclusive to Sunsail (at the moment) and I therefore read into that, that it will not be a Leopard 38, yet :confused:

multihullsailor6
23rd July 2009, 10:30 AM
I think the front cabin with the windows is

PLAIN UGLY!

Ozmultis
23rd July 2009, 10:45 AM
Who would have thought it was a M&M design - I usually love their stuff - Its all a bit ugly really, in my humble view. It also doesnt appear to have great bridgedeck clearance. May look better in the flesh.

catwanted
23rd July 2009, 10:29 PM
Apparently they will have one on show at the Cape Town boat show in September 2009. They have not given us any indication on price yet but we are expecting to see it there.. :D

searenitysail
24th July 2009, 05:21 AM
It is definitely NOT a Leopard 38, which was designed by Alex Simonis. Morrelli & Melvin only began their relationship designing for Robertson & Caine with the Leopard 40 (Moorings 4000) and later, the Leopard 46 (Moorings 4600).

Certainly some of this design compromised performance for charter potential/Sunsail demands. But M & M have to make money, too!

If you want a Morrelli & Melvin performance cat, you can buy a Gunboat...or an A-Cat!

jkd
24th July 2009, 05:37 PM
After a little more comparison it sure looks like a revamp of the 3800/38. The specs are all the same (Sail area, draft, LOA, LWL) except a bit more beam which probably just comes from the addition of the knuckles in the hulls (3 inches more). It may not have lost much weight as they are calling out 40 hp engines (old 38 had 42 hp.) but they now have sail drives instead of shafts and have gone to Yanmars. The rudders are no longer mounted to skegs, the anchor locker and foredeck area is re-shaped and the compression post between the forward cross beam and the bridge deck has been eliminated. The basic hull shape with the exception of the knuckles looks the same (fine entries on the bows, stern under water shape, bridge deck to hull fairing etc.)
I guess this is the first of the Chinese manufactured sail cats that R&C announced back in ’07 they were going to build. It looks like they may have gone to infusion molding and Morrelli & Melvin say they spent a year at the factory helping them set up processes and procedures. (I thought I read somewhere that R&C had canceled the deal when they got the approvals to build more facilities in S.A., but obviously not)
Closer looks at the dinghy davits does show that they are similar to the original design, one hopes they are beefed up some so the cracking at the base of the lift tubes that many have reported will not still be an issue.
I’m a little curious at the engine hatches that appear to be made of Lexan. So you can see the engine fires faster I suppose? Going to be a bit slippery unless they have roughed the surface up some how.
Doesn’t look like they installed the overhead slider to cover the helm station in the bimini like the 40’ has, so I guess you need to plan on getting sunburned and wet.
They are putting 2 solar panels on top as standard but they appear to be flush mount and may be subject to voltage drop-off from heat in that set up.
They have added a rub rail that the 38 did not have.
Bridge deck clearance looks to be about the same (some up front and not much at the back).
The forward windows have me a bit baffled, they had those really cool window steps/ shades on the original (that every other designer subsequently stole and used) now they dumped the idea and stole Lagoon’s design. After reviewing photos of both the old and new style I don’t see that they gained any interior volume with this change. The trailing edge of the mast was even with the tops of the windows and they slanted forward 6 inches or so in the old design. The new design just drops straight down again at the trailing edge of the mast. Hard top bimini is pretty identical to the Lagoon style as well. I guess this is the Chinese way of doing design work (take someone else’s design, reverse engineer it, manufacture it for less and call it your own).
The mast no longer sits on a small step but goes down to deck level.
The keel design looks to be the same; I wonder if they will be removable like the old ones?
I’m sorry to see the Targa arch go away, I like the way it looks.
Sure am interested to see the layout drawings and some more interior shots.

John

jkd
24th July 2009, 05:42 PM
If you want a Morrelli & Melvin performance cat, you can buy a Gunboat.

Sadly in today's banking market I have had problems finding the funding for a 75 year loan. :rolleyes::)

John

catwanted
24th July 2009, 08:22 PM
http://www.leopardcatamarans.com/LeopardCatamarans/YachtsForSale/Leopard38.aspx

they have a new link added to their web site but no info yet....

jkd
24th July 2009, 09:24 PM
Now this is getting strange.

The leopardcatamaran.com site calls out a 19' 9" beam and 19 HP engines.
The Sunsail site calls out 30 HP engines in the verbage but 40 HP in the spec sheet and a 21' beam
The Morrellimelvin.com site calls out a 21' beam equaling 8.84 meters? (now that should embarress someone at a prestigious engineering firm):p

M&M call out Yanmar's and Leopard USA says Cummins.

The floor plan shown on the Leopard site has full bridge deck width salon seating. Wow, that is going to be odd looking.

John

catabroker
24th July 2009, 09:33 PM
Hello Forum,
The first Leopard 38 as well as the first Sunsail 3800 were recently launched in Capetown. (not in China!)

It is a complete new model and new design by the house design team Morelli & Melvin. The molds for the previous model Simonis designed Leopard 38 were destroyed back in 2004 when the first Leopard 40' was launched.

Length overall 37 ft 6 / 11.43 m
Length waterline 36 ft / 11.00 m
Beam maximum 19 ft 9 / 6.04 m

Draft (lightship) 3 ft 3 / 1.00 m
Draft (half load) 3 ft 5 / 1.05 m
Draft (Full load) 3 ft 7 / 1.10 m
Mast height above W.L. 62 ft 8 / 19.10 m

Displacement (light ship) 18,340 lbs 8,300 kg
Displacement (half load) 22,100 lbs 10,000 kg
Displacement (full load) 27,382 lbs 12,390 kg
Load carrying capacity 9,040 lbs 4,090 kg
Sinkage rate 1,288 lbs/in 230 kg/cm

J 12 ft 10 / 3.90 m
I 49 ft 8 / 15.15 m
E 18 ft / 5.50 m
P 49 ft 6 / 15.10 m
Mainsail area (triangular) 447 sqft / 41.5 sqm
Mainsail area incl. roach 614 sqft / 57 sqm
Roach % 38% / 38%
Jib area (100% fore triangle) 318 sqft / 29.5 sqm
Overlap %
Genoa area 377 sqft / 35 sqm
Total upwind area 991 sqft / 92 sqm
Gennaker area 1014 sqft / 94 sqm
Storm jib area 97 sqft / 9 sqm

Fresh water capacity 206 USgal / 780 ltr
Fuel capacity 92 USgal / 350 ltr
Holding tank capacity 26 USgal / 100 ltr

Engine max power 19 hp / 13.8 kW
at RPM 3,200 / 3,200
Engine no. cylinders 3 / 3
Propeller dimensions 2-blade 16in x 13in / 2-blade / 406 x 330mm


The Leopard 38' can be ordered as a 3 cabin / 2 head 'owners version or 4 / 2and the Sunsail 3800 will stricly be a 4 cabin / 2 head model. There are additional forepeak berths on either sides.
The galley faces aft, and the salon table can drop down to create another double. The Leopard 38' has wide and flat side decks as well as the open transom and easy cockpit entrance that you see on any Leopard catamaran. The hardtop has integrated solar panels.
The shower is a real stall shower with a door, no bending over the toilet and getting everything wet!
Engine specs above give the standard 19HP but pretty much all Leopard 38's and Sunsail 3800's will be build with 29 HP Yanmar 3GM30F's.

Base price for the Leopard 38' will be $269,000 and the first one will be introduced in the US at the Annapolis boat show in October, and is available for sale. Call / email me for option sheet & pricing.


Peter Wiersema, CPYB
Leopard Catamaran Sales
Leopard Catamarans Salesman of the Year 2003-2004-2005-2006-2007-2008

Office +1 954 462 3075 x 103 (EST)
Toll Free 800 850 4081 x 103
Fax +1 954 462 2440
Cell +1 954 260 4913
pwiersema@leopardcatamarans.com

ForumAdmin
24th July 2009, 09:44 PM
Its really great that Peter is a member of this forum and can give chapter and verse like this. Thank you Peter .... I hope you sell a ton of them!

Leopard Catamarans
24th July 2009, 10:51 PM
For additional Leopard 38 information please visit:

http://www.leopardcatamarans.com/LeopardCatamarans/YachtsForSale/Leopard38.aspx
or
http://b.static.ak.fbcdn.net/images/pages/find_us_on_facebook_badge.gif?8:81200.gif (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Leopard-Catamarans/145592030712) http://emails.moorings.com//admin/editor/upload/twitter_logo_header.gif (http://twitter.com/leopardcats)

jkd
25th July 2009, 01:40 AM
Peter,

Thank you for coming in with the real numbers, as you can probably tell I was getting really confused with all the contradictory information I found.
Please help me out with some questions;
The weight seems to have gone up about 1k lbs from the original?
The (standard) engines have gone down 1/2 in horse power? How is the powered cruise speed changed with this reduction in hp?
Does the bimini have the same overhead slider as the 40 to close off the helm from sun and rain?
Has the SA operation gone to injection molding with this boat?
Are they still balsa cored below waterline?
Does the new model have the removable keels?
Have the dinghy davits been beefed up over the originals? Different tube size etc.?
Are all the new model 38's going to be produced in SA?
What portion of production got moved to China? the power cat 37's?
You are listing a storm jib in the sail plan is this a standard item at delivery?
Any idea what the light ship difference will be between 3 or 4 cabin layout?
The weight listed, is this actual for the first vessel or design weight?

Sorry to bombard you with questions but I do like the R&C stuff and am an inquisitive sort of PIA.

Please shoot me a price list and any other info you have on this vessel.

Thank you in advance,

John

jkd
25th July 2009, 01:45 AM
Its really great that Peter is a member of this forum and can give chapter and verse like this. Thank you Peter .... I hope you sell a ton of them!

I hope I can buy one of them I sure liked the old ones.:D

John

catabroker
27th July 2009, 07:47 PM
Hello Forum,

From one of the previous quotes we had a few questions:

1. - Does the bimini have the same overhead slider as the 40 to close off the helm from sun and rain? No, the Leopard 38' has a canvas cover that can easily be removed in nice weather. Below are 2 pictures of the 'soft top', open and closed.


2. – Has the SA operation gone to injection molding with this boat?

Infusion? No, all parts are hand laminated.


3. – Are they still balsa cored below waterline? Correct. End grain balsa core is being used, the same core material that has been used in over 600 Leopard catamarans.

4. - Does the new model have the removable keels? No removable keels.


5. - Have the dinghy davits been beefed up over the originals (from the

previous Simonis designed 38')? Different tube size etc.? The 2010 Leopard 38' has a different Davit Hoop system, see pictures below. (Just for information: the OLD L38 Simonis design Tube Diameter was 48mm. The NEW L38 Design Tube Diameter is 60mm.

6. - Are all the new model 38's going to be produced in SA? Some will be produced in China under strict QC from Robertson and Caine. These models will be geared to the Pacific market.


7. – What portion of production got moved to China? A Robertson and Caine Joint Venture is building Leopard 38’s in China for the Asian market and charter bases closer to them such as Thailand, Australia, Tahiti and Seychelles, this is mainly because of delivery costs.


8. - You are listing a storm jib in the sail plan is this a standard item at delivery? No, this is not a standard item for the inventory, this is a reference for future owners.


9. - Any idea what the light ship difference will be between 3 or 4 cabin

layout? There are no significant difference in weight between the two.


10. - The weight listed, is this actual for the first vessel or design weight?

Design weight.


Please let me know any other questions,

Peter Wiersema
Leopard catamarans Ft Lauderdale
office + 1 954 462 3075 x 103

Tulliana
28th July 2009, 12:18 PM
I can back up a number of points that Peter has written as I spent some time at the R&C factory in October last year.

You will see from the bottom picture that this is Elliot Basin in Cape Town with Table Mountain in the background. John Titterton is the delivery skipper on Hull #001 (see first post) who has not only got a massive amount of experience delivering numerous SA built cats over the years but was also responsible for snagging the boats for TUI Marine (and private customers) when I collected mine last year. I spoke with John last week and he was looking forward to the trip to Annapollis but up until then he had only had a brief sail around Table Bay for publicity purposes in the new L38.

As of last year a number of technicians, QA, electricians, etc were being sent by R&C over to China to teach them how they want the boats built and I was told that the US and Europe would continue to be supplied with SA built boats.

I'm sure after the delivery a great deal more information will be available on the new boats performance etc. Due to John's experience he also has the ear of TUI Marine as well as R&C so any feedback he passes on can only improve future boats.

catabroker
28th July 2009, 04:08 PM
Hello Forum,
For the latest interior / exterior pictures, please check the following site.
There are 3 pages / 37 pictures in total. Enjoy!

http://leopardcatamarans.smugmug.com/gallery/9028598_CpvWG#600675224_PDtnT

Peter Wiersema
Leopard Catamarans
pwiersema@leopardcatamarans.com
US 954 462 3075 x 103

IreAneY
28th July 2009, 07:08 PM
Peter
Initially I did not like the front windows, but I have warmed to them, she looks a well thought out cat and appears to have more room in the saloon than the 40, infact she is far more appealing in many ways than the 40.
Looking forward to hear how she performs.:)
One question, what is the bridgedeck clearance at the bow and furthest aft point.?

JohnT
31st July 2009, 08:36 PM
Hi Folks,
I am the delivery captain for the new Leopard 38 Hull #001, and have been working with TUI and the R&C crew for the past few weeks. We took handover of the boat yesterday (Thursday July 30) and the crew and I have been going full-out on preparing the boat for delivery to the Annapolis Boat Show – there will be 4 POB on the delivery and with all the provisions, safety gear, and personal gear, we still have plenty storage for a lot more.

Peter Wiersema (Catabroker) will be able to give you all the info you need about the boat – the only thing he has incorrect at the moment is that the genoa is a 120% sail and not a 100% one. As “Tulliana” (Andy) commented, we have been out on test sails and photo shoots over the past few weeks and . . . . . .

Let me first note that I thought, when we launched the boat, that she would not sail that well – I think I was influenced by her looks whilst she was still on the transport trailer before the ceremonial bottle of bubbly, blessing, splash and the rigging was added (and before I had actually sailed her).

. . . . . she sails brilliantly! The other day we had her out in Table Bay in 15 knots and had her at 9 knots on a beat, 11 knots on a reach and 7.5 knots with the wind on the bum and only the genoa out. Granted, we had full fuel tanks (300 litres) and full water tanks (780 litres) but nothing else on the boat. Yesterday my crew and I moved the boat from the R&C dock in the Cape Town small craft basin to the Elliott Basin, just as a front hit Cape Town (it is winter here at the moment). We bashed into a 35 knot wind to the port control tower then turned back for the Elliot Basin, about a mile down wind. I let out a handkerchief size bit of genoa and we flew through the Ben Schoeman Basin at an alarming rate. As I said, she sails brilliantly.

So, this weekend we are getting the provisions on board and purchasing the perishables and stowing them. Monday we load up our extra safety gear and “load gear” and then clear out for the first leg of our delivery, 1699 nautical miles to the island of St Helena. Unfortunately, as it is winter here and the “Cape of Storms” is living up to its name, the first few days is going to be bumpy and difficult. That is, until we get at least 600nm north of the Cape.

JohnT

IreAneY
2nd August 2009, 05:18 PM
Hi Peter
Sorry just bumping up my questions on the new 38, plus another one.:)

Looking forward to hear how she performs.:)

One question, what is the bridgedeck clearance at the bow and furthest aft point.?

The anchor locker hiding away the windlass etc is very neat, but where or how do you connect the bridle??:confused:

catabroker
3rd August 2009, 02:00 PM
Hello Forum,
From the designer, Gino Morelli, :

...The designed underwing clearance is normally 26 3/4" in a "loaded" condition.... full fuel/water....etc

The anchoring system is the same as on all previous model Leopard catamarans: The windlass sits pretty much underneath the mast base, the anchor sits in a 'well' in the bridgedeck underneath. When deploying the anchor, you let out your chain, once you are satisfied with scope / length, you hook the bridle into the chain (the bridle is hooked in next to the anchor). Then you let out some more chain until the boat 'rides' on the bridle and you're done. This system has been tried and tested on 600 plus Leopard catamarans. It eliminates a muddy rusty chain going across your trampoline and eliminates a heavy anchor on the crossbar.

Polars: we don't have a polar yet.

Regards,

Peter Wiersema, CPYB
Leopard Catamarans
pwiersema@leopardcatamarans.com
USA +1 954 462 3075 x 103

IreAneY
3rd August 2009, 02:39 PM
Peter
Thank you for your reply, I assume that the clearance figure is at it's minimum point ie under the aft crossbeam, could you confirm that, thank you.

Looking forward to the polars.:)

Also can you just confirm the beam following on from the earlier confusion.:confused:

Waiting to hear more.:)

2hulls
4th August 2009, 01:22 PM
. . . . . she sails brilliantly! The other day we had her out in Table Bay in 15 knots and had her at 9 knots on a beat...

SOG? Not being familiar with Table Bay, how much current runs there? :D Or, exactly what is the definition of "on a beat" as used in this case? And at what AWA?

Not having sailed one, I understand and believe the M&M boats are quite a bit livelier than the Simonis designs, of which I have sailed. Accepting this report at face value, I'll need to revise "quite a bit" to something entirely differrent......

2 Hulls Dave

lhsmith
10th August 2009, 06:39 AM
Here are some stats I've compiled from owner's manuals and Peter's posts:

----- 40 vs. 38
LOA 11.97 11.43 m
LWL 11.43 11.0 m
Bmax 6.13 6.0 m
Draft 3.1 3.0 m lightship
Disp 7630 8300 kg lightship
Capacity 4090 4090 kg (incl water and fuel)
Mast 18.86 19.10 m above DWL
main 57 57 m^2
jib 28 29.5 m^2 100%
Genoa 39 35 m^2
Gennaker 94 94 m^2
Water 780 780 l
Fuel 350 350 l
Black 108 100 l
bridgedeck .68 .68 m clearance above DWL

Hull shape not considered and with nearly identical sail plans, the 40 would appear faster than the 38 because it's lighter, and has longer LWL. I hope to meet JohnT at the Annapolis show, and see how he thinks the 2 boats compare.

Another question that comes to mind -- if these boats are so similar, why produce both?

IreAneY
10th August 2009, 06:35 PM
Larry
Nice comparison, I too wonder why they are producing both when they are so similar, apart that the layout is different and little tweaks to the cockpit, davits and front windows and it seems $80,000 :eek::eek:
38 = $269,000
40 = $349,000
Both ex-works prices


Here are some stats I've compiled from owner's manuals and Peter's posts:

----- 40 vs. 38
LOA 11.97 11.43 m
LWL 11.43 11.0 m
Bmax 6.13 6.0 m
Draft 3.1 3.0 m lightship
Disp 7630 8300 kg lightship
Capacity 4090 4090 kg (incl water and fuel)
Mast 18.86 19.10 m above DWL
main 57 57 m^2
jib 28 29.5 m^2 100%
Genoa 39 35 m^2
Gennaker 94 94 m^2
Water 780 780 l
Fuel 350 350 l
Black 108 100 l
bridgedeck .68 .68 m clearance above DWL

Hull shape not considered and with nearly identical sail plans, the 40 would appear faster than the 38 because it's lighter, and has longer LWL. I hope to meet JohnT at the Annapolis show, and see how he thinks the 2 boats compare.

Another question that comes to mind -- if these boats are so similar, why produce both?

jkd
10th August 2009, 07:01 PM
I'd like to know where the 700 kg extra weight in the 38 comes from.

John

IreAneY
10th August 2009, 07:06 PM
True, especially when she is shorter, narrower, and has lost a heavy bit of plastic above the helmsmans head, unless;) the 40's weight was underestimated to start with :confused:


I'd like to know where the 700 kg extra weight in the 38 comes from.

John

lhsmith
10th August 2009, 07:23 PM
I rechecked the numbers and did not find errors. I don't know what engines the numbers reflect. Perhaps Peter can help explain the difference in weight....

Tulliana
10th August 2009, 07:32 PM
True, especially when she is shorter, narrower, and has lost a heavy bit of plastic above the helmsmans head, unless;) the 40's weight was underestimated to start with :confused:

The Leopard weights are all estimated from Gino Morrelli's CAD system and are therefore definately estimated. My personal opinion is that too much emphasis is put on what the manufacturers tell us what each of these type of boats weigh. I would wait to look at the polars to see what it performs like rather than look too closely at the advertised weights (we all know another manufacturer who cannot meet weight targets:))
My Leopard 46 weighed roughly 20% more than advertised when launched as I had it put on calibrated pads prior to launch but it matches the polars on performance so I'm not overly concerned.

By the looks John T is having some engine problems and has had to pull in to Namibia. Lets hope its not too serious.

TYRNTLZRDKING
15th August 2009, 04:21 PM
By the looks John T is having some engine problems and has had to pull in to Namibia. Lets hope its not too serious.

With engine repairs complete, John T has left Luderitz today.
Long way to go.

http://shiptrak.org/?callsign=ZS1JNT&filter=60

TYRNTLZRDKING
17th August 2009, 09:07 PM
After a failed engine being replaced in Luderitz and attempting to continue on, John T experienced more engine problems and was forced to Walvis bay for more repairs.
Not a good trip so far. Not sure they will make it in time.
Good luck.

TYRNTLZRDKING
19th September 2009, 02:54 PM
new brochure.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/19783385/Leopard-38-Brochure?autodown=pdf

jkd
19th September 2009, 05:31 PM
Sure wish the delivery capt. would post what combination of sails he was using to get 12.5 in a 15 kt breeze. Calling a one day run of just under 200 nm must have been quite an experience for a 38 ft boat. But he is lightly loaded for delivery. Kind of unusual for a delivery boat to carry an asymmetrical kite. I have enjoyed reading his postings so far. I love how he is keeping pace with the 46 footer 2 days ahead of him.

I see he is calling the boat an A4001? Odd marketing name for a 38 footer.

John

lhsmith
20th September 2009, 10:07 PM
Based on all the good advice on this forum, I bet he's using twin headsails.:D

catamangos
21st September 2009, 01:44 PM
Hello Peter ,

thanks for all the details about the new 38' .

My question is : why is there such a difference of weight between this new model ( 8300 kg light displacement ) , and the Leo 40 ? (= 7630 kg, according to the Owner Manual) You said that the materials are the same ; is the building proceed different ?

I suppose that in short terms , this new 38 will replace the 40 , as the main specifications (except the weight !!) are similar. Do you you know if an alternative model will appear , something like a 42 or 43 feet ?

Thank you for answer , best regards , Eric .

Tulliana
21st September 2009, 05:56 PM
But he is lightly loaded for delivery. Kind of unusual for a delivery boat to carry an asymmetrical kite.

John

You will find he will be far from lightly loaded as he will be stopping in the BVI which is Moorings/Sunsail's main base so you can bet he will be carrying loads of warranty spares for the charter fleet. I have seen them leaving Cape Town with spare keels, windows, plus numerous other boxes.

All the delivery skippers carry a Quantum Spi as part of their standard delivery kit. They also carry a portable 2 ring burner that is thrown after delivery so they don't spoil the cooker. They have to then carry the Spi back as luggage on their return flight.

JustCatamarans
21st September 2009, 11:30 PM
Hey guys, a lot of boat bashing going on here, lets wait until its seen in the 'glass' in Annapolis until it gets labelled

lhsmith
22nd September 2009, 01:29 AM
Hey guys, a lot of boat bashing going on here, lets wait until its seen in the 'glass' in Annapolis until it gets labelled

I think we're just wondering where the additional weight is and why. Looking at and sailing the boat won't change the question. So maybe Gino Morelli could be asked why the weight change and where. Now is as good as later.

jkd
22nd September 2009, 02:38 AM
Hey guys, a lot of boat bashing going on here, lets wait until its seen in the 'glass' in Annapolis until it gets labelled


I don't think it is "boat bashing". I think it is reasonable speculation when presented with conflicting and sparse information. (We can shake the boxes under the Christmas tree and wonder about the contents until we open them can't we?);)
If I was a speculating man, I would say R&C are getting ready to drop the 40 and this is the replacement, since all the specs are so close and we know no manufacturer will ever call a 38.5 foot boat a "38 footer". It will always be a 39 or 40.:confused:
Sure would like to see some actual weights on this thing, not just engineering specs.:rolleyes:
We aren't trying to link it to a notorious South African boat builder with a questionable build history and few actual launches!;):D

John

catabroker
22nd September 2009, 02:50 PM
The weight question was asked to Gino Morelli, he is travelling. I expect his answer soon.

regards, Peter Wiersema, CPYB
Leopard Catamarans Ft Lauderdale
pwiersema@leopardcatamarans.com
+1 954 260 4913

catabroker
24th September 2009, 03:05 PM
Hello Forum,
The polars on the Leopard 38' are now available:

See you all in Annapolis for the world wide introduction of this exciting new model, I can't wait to sail it myself. John Titterton is not known for exagerating his speed / daily runs, and the Leopard 38' seems to sail almost like a mini gunboat!

Peter Wiersema, CPYB
Leopard Catamarans Salesman of the Year 2003-2008
Office +1 954 462 3075 x 103
Mobile +1 954 260 4913
Fax +1 954 462 2440
pwiersema@leopardcatamarans.com

jkd
24th September 2009, 06:12 PM
Thanks Peter,

Now if I can just get someone to tell me what all those funny looking lines mean. :D

I see John T addressed my question on his blog about the model designation, so hopefully both the 40 and 38 will be around for some time to come.;)

Working on my tickets to Annapolis now.

John

IreAneY
24th September 2009, 06:55 PM
John
If you get to see it can you take some photos and give an independent report and if you get to sail it even better.

jkd
25th September 2009, 01:08 AM
John
If you get to see it can you take some photos and give an independent report and if you get to sail it even better.

I'm not going to be able to do the demo day thing. I will write up my observations of what I see when I get back. I'm working on report spread sheet now for the show so I don't miss too many important items (well I hope anyway, after all I missed the proper year build on the FP 38 I spent a WEEK on :o).
After that I'll be bugging someone to show me how to upload photo's on the site. :o
I'm looking forward to seeing this boat in the "glass" as Kent says.:)

John

paulrack
25th September 2009, 07:24 AM
I looked at the 38 at the Cape Town boat show yesterday. It was amazingly spacious for a 38 and had a very familiar feel compared to the 40 and 46. It definitely did not feel like a cheaper boat. From Johns blog on the Atlantic crossing it also seems to sail very well. I am battling to get used to the look from the front however.

It was great to be able to see all the cats in a row and compare them. It was interesting to be able to compare the quality of the South African boats to the new French Lagoon 440 at the show. The Knysna 480, St Francis 50, Maverick 400 and Matrix 450 were streets ahead of the lagoon in terms od finish and quality of material. I found the lagoon very disapointing. It had some clever concepts but badly let down in terms of finish. Looks like cheap veneer, bad veneer joins, bad joins on the wood, lots of exposed screws, rust marks lready on the tramp lacing, rust marks where stainless steel is on fibreglass, a shower that sprays over wood in the bathroom, sqeaky floorboards, big gaps in the fittings of the floorboards. I could go on but you get the picture!

IreAneY
25th September 2009, 10:00 PM
What are the bridgedeck clearances like between the Lagoon and the SA cats :confused::confused::confused:

jkd
4th October 2009, 01:23 PM
Looks like John T. made it in, so we will have the 3 and 4 cabin versions to look at.
His over all runs look pretty good for a 38 footer. More of what I would expect with wind strength all over the range on a trip that long.
Congratulations to him and his crew and the folks from R & C.

John

DWT
4th October 2009, 08:09 PM
Can someone explain "Sinkage rate 1,288 lbs/in 230 kg/cm" ? From the specs above.

David

Tulliana
4th October 2009, 08:19 PM
Can someone explain "Sinkage rate 1,288 lbs/in 230 kg/cm" ? From the specs above.

David

I believe it means for every 230kg of weight you put on the boat it sinks by 1cm or the waterline rises by that amount on the hull.

Alfonoso
3rd December 2009, 03:17 PM
6. - Are all the new model 38's going to be produced in SA? Some will be produced in China under strict QC from Robertson and Caine. These models will be geared to the Pacific market.


7. – What portion of production got moved to China? A Robertson and Caine Joint Venture is building Leopard 38’s in China for the Asian market and charter bases closer to them such as Thailand, Australia, Tahiti and Seychelles, this is mainly because of delivery costs.


Please let me know any other questions,

Peter Wiersema
Leopard catamarans Ft Lauderdale
office + 1 954 462 3075 x 103
[/quote]

Hello All,

Sorry to join this thread so late- new member.
Peter, if a person was able to take delivery of a 38 in one of the countries listed above (that have their 38s built in China), would the price be lower (minus delivery costs) than for the ones built in S.A. ?
Thanks, Al

catabroker
3rd December 2009, 11:07 PM
Hello Forum,

Robertson and Cain cannot build a 3 cabin Leopard 38 in China. They never built a second set of molds for the 3 cabin version and this means that even if a local person wanted to purchase a 3 cabin Leopard 38, this yacht would have to come from South Africa. As far as pricing is concerned, the only difference would be the delivery cost. Pricing is the same for yachts built in either factory.

regards,
Peter Wiersema CPYB
Leopard Catamarans Salesman of the Year 2003-2008
Office +1 954 462 3075 x 103
Mobile +1 954 260 4913
Fax +1 954 462 2440
pwiersema@leopardcatamarans.com

silverbranch
4th December 2009, 09:05 PM
Is there a price/options list available anywhere for the Leopard 38 and the Sunsail 384?

This looks pretty close to the ideal retirement boat for me. I retire in 2014, which would be right when the boat would come out of charter. I had originally planned to buy a used boat coming out of charter at that time but now am thinking it might be an idea to do the Sunsail program and get the boat at the end of it.

Thanks
Gail

Alfonoso
4th December 2009, 11:24 PM
This woman, Katy Buckner kbuckner@fcmarinenet.com who is with Sunsail/Moorings or this guy dayton.trubee@leopardcatamarans.com
will be happy to send you the info.

I'm looking at a similar scenario. This boat looks great. I'm currently reviewing the numbers from Sunsail. On the surface, it looks like you're getting a great deal, especially if you can use a similar charter boat for 6-12 weeks per year until the term finishes. However, there are lots of conditions and additional expenses that become evident when looking through the material. For now, it looks to me, that paying cash for any chartering, then buying a used one in a few years is about a wash financially. 5 year old Moorings 400s (very similar- excellent boat, I chartered last spring) are currently going for mid-200s US$ on Yachtworld. The Sunsail 384 only comes in the 4 cabin version; only the Leopard is currently available as a 3 cabin.

Lots to consider- let us know what factors made up your mind for you. Al

silverbranch
4th December 2009, 11:50 PM
Thanks for the reply. I did get an email earlier with some specs from Katy. I was disappointed to see the 3 cabin version is not available from Sunsail, but looking at the virtual tour I see some advantages to the 4-cabin layout. I was on a Leopard 45 a couple years ago and that was a 4 cabin/4 head version and I didn't care for that too much. But the two heads on the 384 look good-sized.

I just started considering the idea so haven't done that much research yet. My plan had been to buy a used charter boat in 2014, but I can see advantages to doing this instead.

Gail