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jkd
5th September 2009, 03:48 PM
OK cat,

How are your dealings with R&C on the warranty issues going after the delivery?
They treating you fairly and quickly?

John

OkinawaCat
6th September 2009, 04:31 PM
hmm..Not sure yet still going through them. Could have been dealt with quicker but guess things take time. Still waiting for parts for 2 months now. Watermaker and Navi never worked from day one so need to sort that out once I am back in town. Being in Japan there is no support from the individual makers. All say there is no commissioning unless it was purchased in Japan. Even Yanmar will not warranty the motors as the engine are an export model. Basically you're on your own. I am guessing this is the case with most boats if I brought into Japan.
I was told prior to buying that they had a warehouse with parts and can ship anything within 2 weeks but doesn't seem to be the case. Which was one of the reasons for buying.

I am guessing the same would have happened elsewhere so just sucking it up.
I basically need to do all repairs myself or it would never get done. It's part of owning a boat anyways. Lost a few pounds while working so that's good. :)

It's getting done just takes time.

Okinawacat

IreAneY
6th September 2009, 07:16 PM
Andy of Tulliana admitted he had had a few niggles at first but overall he had found R&C very good, have you spoken with him, maybe he knows a face that could help speed up any claims, just a thought :)

OkinawaCat
8th September 2009, 12:53 PM
That's kind of what I feel. A bit of a pain in the butt as it is needlessly taking this long but once done I will be happy. I am always comparing how my company deals with customer complaints and find myself always disappointed in how other companies deal with problems. Guess I shouldn't be comparing. I always feel if ANY of my customers are unhappy with our products I want to do what I can to make them feel better. Even if it was a full refund. Nothing worse than profiting from someone's misfortune. Couldn't sleep at night.

I am sure they will pull through, it's a big company and they have a reputation to keep. Not much needed really.

Bottom line is I love the boat. I miss it like a child when I am away.

Okinawacat

Talbot
8th September 2009, 01:21 PM
Word of mouth advertising is worth 100x print/tv/radio adverts.

Word of mouth tends to concentrate on relations with the company and particularly after sales service.

Always interesting to compare the two budgets! (after sales service/advertising)

Tulliana
9th September 2009, 05:55 PM
Okinawa
Overall my after sales experience has been quite good. Just after the delivery trip we also had a number of issues but most of these were with factored items (similar to you) such as watermaker, batteries, electric winches, Raymarine etc. R&C (and I presume most manufacturers) handle these in the same way, they pass the warranty problem onto the individual manufacturer such as Spectra, Lewmar etc. I was quite lucky I suppose that Las Palmas had a representative for each company and all the problems were duly sorted. Any problems with the actual boat we went to any boatyard of our choice submitted a quote for the work required and this was then approved. After the work is completed you pay the bill yourself and then submit your claim back to R&C who then pay you.
In your case if the manufacturers are saying that they will not look after their own products, even though you have a valid warranty then this must go back to R&C who must demand that they do. I'm sure that a few emails from R&C's Yanmar supplier back to the agents in Japan should do the trick when they are (were) buying over 200 engines a year. The same goes with the rest of them such as Spectra etc.
If you want to chat about anything please PM me or send an email from our website.

OkinawaCat
9th September 2009, 11:46 PM
Thanks Andy,

I'll PM you later when back in Okinawa. We got a favourable answer from Raymarine, they said R&C have to contact them then they can come out. Watermaker, I will be trying to fix it while on Skype with the maker. They can then walk me though it. Yanmar, well just get them to oil changes when needed. Same as the N.L. Gen. I am trying to learn each part of the boat step by step. Learned lots but tons more to learn. The AC DC power and charging system I just flick the switches and that is as much as I know. Our shore power is 100 volt, so not sure if it hurts anything when running. A marine electrician said don't run off of shore power or the life of the fridge and aircon will be reduced. So now just charge the batteries with shore only. I wonder if that is OK? Really zero knowledge with the Electrical systems. Not sure where to start.

Thanks for the help.

Okinawacat

Gavdoo
21st October 2009, 10:43 PM
... Our shore power is 100 volt, so not sure if it hurts anything when running. A marine electrician said don't run off of shore power or the life of the fridge and aircon will be reduced. So now just charge the batteries with shore only. I wonder if that is OK?

Your electrician is correct. Running inductive alternating current loads (e.g. electric motors) at lower than rated volts will increase the current draw (amps) and potentially burnout the motor windings through overheating. The A/C and Fridge/Freezer compressors, washer and dryer all have motors so you should run these through an inverter connected to your batteries, and use your poor quality shore power to charge the batteries only.

Yoga O
10th November 2009, 03:27 PM
For anyone looking to get into a Leopard, you might want to look at the website for Changing Spots (http://www.changingspots.net/journey.html), a Leopard 40.

Seems like the owner, Rob, is having some bottom problems that R&C is not willing to take care of. In addition, he has previously contacted R&C about a number of "safety" issues, asking R&C to notify owners of them, which they have neglected to do.

There is a Yahoo Groups for Leopard Cats here (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LeopardCat/). Of course you have to request membership, but it could have some good stuff.

Fair Winds,
Mike

paulrack
10th November 2009, 04:20 PM
I read through the pages, could not find any issues, he had problem with antifoul which R&C sorted, last post is that he found a problem on 28 October and was waiting to see what R&C would do, did not say what it was. Am I missing something, what were the safety issues and what would R&C not deal with?

Yoga O
10th November 2009, 04:50 PM
I read through the pages, could not find any issues, he had problem with antifoul which R&C sorted, last post is that he found a problem on 28 October and was waiting to see what R&C would do, did not say what it was. Am I missing something, what were the safety issues and what would R&C not deal with?

Sorry, trying to post quickly on an iffy internet connection. The bottom has ongoing issues that Rob pointed out early on and asked R&C to analyze and solve the problem. They just said it was a bad paint job and paid for new paint to go on in Newport, RI. IOW, they did not take the time to actually analyze the problem, they made an assumption.

After arriving in Trini, Rob had to have more paint applied, well in advance of the expected life of the paint. It was determined by the yard that there was a problem with the original barrier coat applied by R&C at additional cost before the boat left SA.

This required additional days in the yard, additional labor and material costs to completely strip the bottom and put it all right.

R&C has refused to cover any of this. Rob has given them additional emails to consider their options, but they are denying any responsibility. He is now working on his response to be placed on both his website and the Yahoo Leopard Cats Group.

I have probably mixed some of this up, but check back to Changing Spot's site as he will update it with more detail.

Fair Winds,
Mike

catabroker
10th November 2009, 08:08 PM
Stories are like catamarans, there are 2 sides to each of them.

For more information on After Sales service and Warranty on Leopard catamarans, please call the Global Sales Manager Scott Woodruff

Office +1 954 462 3075 x 103
Cell +1 727 366 1703

jkd
11th November 2009, 01:47 AM
In addition, he has previously contacted R&C about a number of "safety" issues, asking R&C to notify owners of them, which they have neglected to do.

Fair Winds,
Mike

I've been on the Leopard yahoo site for over a year and they are just getting very active over the last several months, but have some outstanding info for the old 3800 owners or potential buyers.
I think the main point he was trying to make was that it would be great if a boat manufacturer would do like the aircraft manufacturers do and issue "service bulletins" when they hear from owners of their products about a problem and confirm it. Or as the serial numbers mount and they find a better way of doing things they make a notice to owners. This would alert all owners (whether under warranty or not) to look in a specific area or system and make corrections as needed.
I have read for instance about FP 36 water heaters going meltdown because the thermostat was set incorrectly at the vendor and was melting hoses. This type of info from a builder instead of from other owners would be of great value and, I suspect, lead to a more loyal following over time as owners realized that the factory was looking out for them and fewer pissed off owners discovering things after issues popped up. He did note that it seemed that Moorings had this type of info being shared back and forth with the factory and was looking to see if it could be shared with all.
I fear this will never come about because the of "product liability" issues, but if aircraft manufacturers got over the fear (and they have much deeper pockets than boat builders) maybe it will catch on.

John

therapy
11th November 2009, 02:16 AM
I've been on the Leopard yahoo site for over a year and they are just getting very active over the last several months, but have some outstanding info for the old 3800 owners or potential buyers.
I think the main point he was trying to make was that it would be great if a boat manufacturer would do like the aircraft manufacturers do and issue "service bulletins" when they hear from owners of their products about a problem and confirm it. Or as the serial numbers mount and they find a better way of doing things they make a notice to owners. This would alert all owners (whether under warranty or not) to look in a specific area or system and make corrections as needed.
I have read for instance about FP 36 water heaters going meltdown because the thermostat was set incorrectly at the vendor and was melting hoses. This type of info from a builder instead of from other owners would be of great value and, I suspect, lead to a more loyal following over time as owners realized that the factory was looking out for them and fewer pissed off owners discovering things after issues popped up. He did note that it seemed that Moorings had this type of info being shared back and forth with the factory and was looking to see if it could be shared with all.
I fear this will never come about because the of "product liability" issues, but if aircraft manufacturers got over the fear (and they have much deeper pockets than boat builders) maybe it will catch on.

John

What a great idea.

Not holding my breath.

JohnT
11th November 2009, 07:36 AM
Mike (Yoga O), I think you are trying to put the cart before the horse. I have read the blog of Changing Spots as well as the Yahoo posts regarding Safety Issues, and find it hard to justify your post. Yes, there appears to be a dispute that the owner is having with R&C (or TUI Ė I do not know which), but he does not expand on either the antifouling coating or, as yet, mention the safety issues.

All boats, irrelevant from which yard, will have issues that appear after the boat has been sailed many thousands of miles. Some of them are related to the manufacture process, some of them due to normal wear and tear, some of them due to abuse and sometimes, I find, due to ignorance of the owner and no regular preventative maintenance.

As the owner of Changing Spots says in his Yahoo post:
While I am very happy with my Leopard 40, it has certainly had some problems. Indeed, there is still no other boat I would want.
When several of these problems had safety implications, I asked R&C (several times!) to inform the Leopard owners in hope of preventing serious damage or injury. After considerable use, I also became aware of other minor safety issues, not associated with construction flaws.
I haven't heard anything about safety problems, and I doubt that my boat is the only one to have such problems. Have any of you gotten any such notices or bulletins from R&C? If not, please let me know and I will post my information here. If your boat is still in warranty, or if you haven't yet taken delivery, this could be critical and timely information.
I would also greatly appreciate hearing about any safety concerns you may have noticed.
Since it is such a good boat, I certainly don't want to get into Leopard bashing, but only to improve it.
We plan an extensive ocean crossing soon, and I would like to be aware of potential problems before we go, rather than after they happen.
Changing Spots, at anchor in Trinidad

So, from the above I gather that Robert is very happy with his boat (his words). Until he expands on his problem as well as the safety issues, letís not judge the service of R&C.

As an aside, I do not work for R&C Ė in fact there was a directive issued in the factory last year that any employee found communicating with me would be fired. However, the issues the factory had with me does not change my opinion that they do build a pretty good boat and do, I have found, fully support their product, via their warrantee, where it is a design or manufacturing fault. So, letís wait for Robert to let us know what his problems are.

John

Tulliana
11th November 2009, 10:29 AM
I have to agree with John above that unless Robert decides to post his problems then no one can comment.

As I stated in a post above to Okinawa, my warranty and after sales service has overall been very good. Probably my only complaint would be the time it takes sometimes to get answers but once you understand the logistics involved then its not too bad.
I will try and explain how the set up works and I'm sure Peter (Catabroker) will correct me if I'm wrong.

TUI Marine buys every boat that R&C builds, they are THE customer. TUI then distributes the boats through one of three channels, to private customers such as myself which are sold by Leopard Catamarans or they are put into their charter fleets with either Moorings or Sunsail. As TUI is the customer they have an office in Cape Town where, after R&C have finished their own quality control TUI then goes in and completes an acceptance of the boat which is then duly signed off. If you buy a boat that is delivered to Ft Lauderdale it then goes through another acceptance there to correct anything found during the delivery trip.

Derrick Graham was appointed at the end of last year as a liaison between me, the end user and R&C in Cape Town, the conversations are constantly monitored by Leopard Catamarans to make sure we both play fair :D. All warranty issues go through Derrick who is based in the USA. This is where some of the delays occur due to time differences. If I email Derrick from Europe by the time he receives it R&C has shut for the night so his email won't be answered for another day and the same goes for the reply. Once you get your head round this bit it seems to work quite well. If R&C disagree with a claim, Leopard Catamarans acts as a mediator to try and settle any dispute. This hasn't occurred to me at all as all of my claims have been agreed and the parts shipped from Cape Town either by carrier or they even re-directed the delivery of a charter boat bound for Croatia so they could deliver some other parts.

My warranty ran out last month but prior to completion a final claim was put in which was for minor items such as a warped cupboard door, a gel coat repair around a cleat (it wasn't tight) and a bathroom mirror that had started to glaze over. As we are on the move I requested if we could carry out the repairs next year when we get to Turkey. This has now been accepted in principle and the parts will be waiting for me in Turkey when I get there. Through their charter network they will recommend a yard to do the repairs which I can either accept or decline, get a quote, this is then passed back through Derrick who will accept or ask for another quote, I get the work done, pay the yard and then they pay me.

As I said before you can only speak as you find and my experience has been very good.

Quote John T : As an aside, I do not work for R&C – in fact there was a directive issued in the factory last year that any employee found communicating with me would be fired.

For anyone who doesn't know John competed the acceptance on my boat whilst working for TUI last year. He definitely doesn't work for R&C and I can verify the incommunicado statement above as I was there at the time. John, best of luck and fair winds with your up coming delivery and give my regards to both Joy and Louis.