A Direct Question to Sabbex

[ForumAdmin]

I made unsuccessful attempts in Cape Town to speak to Sabbex and ask if African Fast cats are still accredited members.

I know intend to follow the matter up this week and ask just that question which IMHO is the same question as asking if membership of SABBEX means anything..... I shall explain that opinion and will post their response on this thread.

[ForumAdmin]

SABBEX have responded.
They reasonably stated in a phone call that having received no complaint from the owners of Butterfly and Barnacle they can do nothing. They cannot act on emotion - just facts. I totally understand that position.

I have asked them to read the Fastcat threads.

They will come back to me.

If anyone would like me to pose any questions to them, please post them on this thread.

[Karen]

SABBEX have responded.
They reasonably stated in a phone call that having received no complaint from the owners of Butterfly and Barnacle they can do nothing.

Hi Paul ...

For the record, that is simply not true. We did contact Sabbex last year. To be specific, we phoned them and spoke to Vida Raubenheimer. She listened sympathetically to our concerns and complaints about African Cats and she said Sabbex would look into the matter. That was the last we heard on the matter.

[ForumAdmin]

Thanks Karen .... so SABBEX misinformed me and the plot thickens...

I shall now take this matter up with them again as I spoke to the very same person that you complained to ....

SABBEX really have to decide if their organisation stands for!

So far the evidence on this and other matters is that it is no more than a protection system for members and that is a pity because it is really letting down the majority of members.

Hard on the heels of arrests amongst SA boat builders for fraud scams against customers they should be extra keen to maintain standards instead of just misinforming.

[ka8uet]

It would appear that the good boat builders of South Africa need to band together to apply pressure not only to African Cats and its principals, but to SABBEX, as well, lest they find themselves discredited not only by unscrupulous boat builders, but by their consumer (non) protection agency, as well!

[ForumAdmin]

Sabbex have responded by email to say they will respond on Tuesday.

[ForumAdmin]

SABBEX have asked me to post this reponse
Dear Paul,

Thank you for your request for information. I have been reading through the blog and am somewhat alarmed at the quick rate with which your responses have escalated. I try my utmost to respond to emails and phone calls as soon as possible, and if I do not call you back within the time frame expected by you, it doens not immediately infer that I am avoiding you or am uninterested. It merely means that my time management is not at the level it should be.
I have looked at the blog and a made a few comments below.
Firstly, a “Direct Question to SABBEX”
Your blog fulfils a very important role and it is very important for us at SABBEX to read it and share in the cruising forums. However, we do not have time to read blogs on a daily basis and kindly ask that you correspond with me via email for a fast and direct response. We are very busy in the office but really try to respond to email in a reasonable space of time.
Secondly, the comment from you below does not reflect what I said on the phone. I did speak to the owners when they were in Durban, on two occasions, if I remember correctly. Also, one of the SABBEX surveyors had dinner with them and they discussed the boat at length. In my conversation with the owners I asked them to please write a formal letter of complaint to SABBEX so I can follow up with our Accreditation Committee and with our Board. I do not recall ever receiving such a formal letter of complaint. If one was sent, I apologise and kindly ask that it be resent. I also remember in our conversation that African Catamarans were still in the process of sorting out the large number of items on the snag list and although they were very frustrated with the number of delays and the length of the snag list, they felt Gideon and the staff were doing their best and were taking care of them with a guest house, etc.
In the conversation I had with you on the phone, which you summarised inaccurately, does not reflect my comment that I did receive information but not a formal complaint.

Originally Posted by ForumAdmin
SABBEX have responded.
They reasonably stated in a phone call that having received no complaint from the owners of Butterfly and Barnacle they can do nothing.
Hi Paul ...

For the record, that is simply not true. We did contact Sabbex last year. To be specific, we phoned them and spoke to Vida Raubenheimer. She listened sympathetically to our concerns and complaints about African Cats and she said Sabbex would look into the matter. That was the last we heard on the matter.

Thirdly, you were not misinformed and there is no plot. We are an organisation dedicated to the promotion of exports of South African built vessels, built to a high standard. We started the Accreditation system two years ago to differentiate the good builders in South Africa from those who continue to manufacture vessels that are sub standard. This small minority of unethical builders threaten our entire industry, where the vast majority are builders of quality vessels. The Accreditation system is an audit where our auditors go into a yard and assess the various systems in place, from warranty, to contracts, to quality control. At the time of Accreditation companies are asked to provide proof of customer complaints and the procedures they have to deal with them. All Accredited companies are then required to adhere to the systems and contracts in place, as shown to our auditors. When we receive a formal complaint in writing, an auditor is sent to the firm to ascertain the exact situation and if the company is found to be in the wrong, they are given time to remedy the situation, while their Accreditation is suspended, and if it is found that they are unable or unwilling to put the remedial things in place, their Accreditation is withdrawn, with full media notification thereof. During this entire process, the auditors and SABBEX will be in communication with the complainant.

Re: A Direct Question to Sabbex

Thanks Karen .... so SABBEX misinformed me and the plot thickens...

I shall now take this matter up with them again as I spoke to the very same person that you complained to ....

SABBEX really have to decide if their organisation stands for!

So far the evidence on this and other matters is that it is no more than a protection system for members and that is a pity because it is really letting down the majority of members.

Hard on the heels of arrests amongst SA boat builders for fraud scams against customers they should be extra keen to maintain standards instead of just misinforming.
__________________
Safe Sailing
Paul

Fourthly, the individuals who were arrested a few weeks ago are not members and never have been. We welcome the legal intervention and we look forward to a successful conclusion of the trail.
Thank you Paul for creating this forum for discussion but I also wish to post our email (info@sabbex.co.za) for those wishing to respond to me directly with any complaints or concerns they have, and I will try to deal with them promptly.
I hope my letter has gone some way in addressing some of the concerns raised thus far and I look forward to further engagement with you.

Kind regards
Veda Raubenheimer

[ka8uet]

I'm sorry, but this response from SABBEX sounds like a lot of CYA to me. There are organizations here in the states which also don't respond unless one uses their form on which to summarized one's complaint. Then they talk to the namufacturer, and that's the end of it. Foxes guarding henhouses has never worked. Foxes designing henhouses seems equally doomed to failure.

[BigCat]

I'm sorry, but this response from SABBEX sounds like a lot of CYA to me. There are organizations here in the states which also don't respond unless one uses their form on which to summarized one's complaint. Then they talk to the namufacturer, and that's the end of it. Foxes guarding henhouses has never worked. Foxes designing henhouses seems equally doomed to failure.

The system works well for the foxes, of course. That's how the entire U.S. government was run under the last administration. There's a book called "The Wrecking Crew," that goes into it in great detail. It's pretty depressing.

[Talbot]

Sabbex needs to review their procedures.

There are two types of quality organisations:

Those that wait passively until full formal complaints procedures are completed.

Those that actively research possible problems and investigate hints of problems.


No prizes for guesssing which is the most effective.


No prizes for guessing which type of organisation Sabbex appears to be from the evidence in this thread!

[ka8uet]

Big Cat, the previous US administration was a disaster not only for this country, but for the entire world. Since politics is a volatile subject, that's all I'll say about that, except to say that it also seems that they can't believe they lost, and are doing all they can to sabotage the current regieme!

[BigCat]

Big Cat, the previous US administration was a disaster not only for this country, but for the entire world. Since politics is a volatile subject, that's all I'll say about that, except to say that it also seems that they can't believe they lost, and are doing all they can to sabotage the current regieme!

Yes, I agree with everything you've said. I'll continue the political dialogue in the members' bar.

[ForumAdmin]

SABBEX
It is clear that you did not get back to Karen and Dick as promised and whilst it is accepted that they made no formal complaint ... probably because they were waiting for you to come back? .... you really are being seen more and more as a meaningless organisation.

You must be aware of the enormous outcry concerning Gideon's service and product ..... if you are not then you should spend the time to stay in touch because the issues are dragging the reputation of your countries boat builders down.

My own personal view is that you do not stand for maintaining standards and are thus missing a major opportunity to create a worthwhile organisation that could really benefit your country.

[ka8uet]

I agree with all that Paul has said. If an organization is REALLY interested in quality and advocacy, it will not wait for formal, written complaints. It would take action as soon as it recieves ANY form of complaint, and would do more than just ask the manufacturer. It would investigate the complaint from the perspective of the consumer, take the concerns to the manufacturer, follow up with the consumer to see if the problems have been fixed in a timely manner, and put pressure on the manufacturer if they have not. It would appear that your organization is more interested in helping manufacturers cover up their misdeeds. I feel sorry for those of your members who are producing quality merchandise, as well as for the customers of those who are not. Right now, I think you have little credibility as an organization pushing for quality by manufacturers.

[imagine2frolic]

My guess would be that Sabbex, like the BBB just accepts the checks, and allows the business to use their name. I have owned my own muffler shops for over 25 years. The worst thieves that did the worst work always had that pretty little plaque on their office wall.

As far as a complaint on a business. Well they get a small check mark alongside their name. Of course the book is not really accesible to the public, unless it is pursued:mad:........i2f

[ka8uet]

Too bad. They have chosen the route of CYA and PR agent. They could have been a force for good. Now SABBEX is going down the same road. Ah well, it seems to make money for the organization, and that's the ultimate goal, I guess. That, and to give cover to bad performers. As i2f says, the worst businesses can g et the plaque as long as they keep sending their money! And they still get to go to the parties and act like big shots!

[BigCat]

Too bad. They have chosen the route of CYA and PR agent. They could have been a force for good. Now SABBEX is going down the same road. Ah well, it seems to make money for the organization, and that's the ultimate goal, I guess. That, and to give cover to bad performers. As i2f says, the worst businesses can g et the plaque as long as they keep sending their money! And they still get to go to the parties and act like big shots!

You can't expect a rousing defense of the hens from an organization of foxes! ::)

[smj]

Too bad. They have chosen the route of CYA and PR agent. They could have been a force for good. Now SABBEX is going down the same road. Ah well, it seems to make money for the organization, and that's the ultimate goal, I guess. That, and to give cover to bad performers. As i2f says, the worst businesses can g et the plaque as long as they keep sending their money! And they still get to go to the parties and act like big shots!

Sounds like the experience I had with the American Yacht Brokers Association, all they wanted was membership dues and couldn't care less that one of their members was trying to screw us out of a $17,500 deposit.