Cats for those who dont get around so well.

[2MT]

Ok so i am now on the disabled list. got a leg crushed a few years ago and while its all healed up it is still one the one infection to removal list. getting hit by the car also made an old healed broken back issue into a new reality as an adult. I can still lift and carry stuff but pushing my self up from a chair or makes my back go out and i have to sit down do a bit of wriggling to get the spine back together the try it again.

I have been a sailor for my entire life never needed a pleasure boat cause i worked on and owned work boats kinda thing. Well I can no longer pass the coast guard physical for able bodied seaman cause i cant carry the weight in both hands and walk across the floor, nor can i run. so all those hours and dollars spent on getting endorsements are kinda waisted since with out the physical i can work the jobs i used to work. (end kinda rant)

so i built my self a little 19ft sampan that is a little dream to sail (my wife and i are both just learning). I cant get around the boat very well, its got hand holds all over. however getting to the bow proves to be a literal pain without my cane and in such a small boat i have to push my self up causing problems. (end sob story)

I am not willing to give up the sea! Nor am i willing to molder on some charter boat like a duffer on shore!

reading here i see there are some other folks with a few challenges; so i figured to ask for some suggestions.

heres some things i am thinking.
I have spent most of my life going about 10kts and am not interested in racing around. (my wife is a bit stubborn about who gets to drive)

we want an easy boat to sail preferably biplane junk rigged. (our sampan has a junk rig and we like it)

dont really want to have to run all over the place to tend sails and such. an easy slow limp is about the best i can hope for. so we dont want some boat that requires honed razor edge skillz.

the boat needs to be able to transit the pacific.

live aboard.

simple workmen like finish. (We dont do bright work but like an oil finish/paint if we can get it)

pack ability. (needs space for tools and such)

tough and sea worthy. (i am having enough problems trying to calibrate for small boats)

Cheap to build/buy. (social security and a little disability money from uncle sam dont go very far)

Off the top of my head i have been thinking a tiki 38 since it answers most of our needs/wants. but since we have not yet sailed on a cat I cant make a confidant judgment as yet.

also it would be a great help if there happened to be a person or two who had a cat around portland oregon that might need ballast so we could get an idea of what we want.

Thanks in advance.:cool:

[ka8uet]

I think a cat is a perfect boat for those of us with mobility problems. I also can no longer run, nor jump, nor leap for sails. I've been looking at things like the Americat, C-Cat (made by Hutchins), catalac, etc. Not looking for speed, just room for me and the menagerie to live with space for a visiting grandchild once in a while. And should be easy for my 91 year old mother to get aboard with her walker. So you are not alone. I think 25-35 foot range is about all I can manage by myself, both sailing and maintaining!

[2MT]

I think a cat is a perfect boat for those of us with mobility problems. I also can no longer run, nor jump, nor leap for sails. I've been looking at things like the Americat, C-Cat (made by Hutchins), catalac, etc. Not looking for speed, just room for me and the menagerie to live with space for a visiting grandchild once in a while. And should be easy for my 91 year old mother to get aboard with her walker. So you are not alone. I think 25-35 foot range is about all I can manage by myself, both sailing and maintaining!

thanks for the reply ka8uet.

over the years i have come to realize that to me about the best/most versatile mono hull is around 50 feet with the standard work boat hull widths. its also about the limit to single handing/maintaining. given this realization a 30 some foot Cat with its big deck and narrow hulls seems about right. We have not yet started our family so we want a little more room for a child infestation in the future. :eek:

not to mention the nieces, aunties grandies &c. that will be showing up now and again.

As you say its about the limit in size to be maintained by one person.

[multihullsailor6]

Have a look at the dazcat range of boats at www.dazcat.co.uk (http://www.dazcat.co.uk). Darren Newton has designed a number of catamarans for people with disabilities and might be a good starting point for any discussions on YOUR boat.

[2MT]

those daz cats are very futuristic. thanks for the link i will keep looking at them.

this is kinda my style: http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/NOIN-jkPtVKW-G6eAOimQw?feat=directlink

thats the sampan we finished this year. while we love her as i said above she's a bit hard to get around on. not tippy just cramped.

hmm since my sig has shown up i suppose the link is unnecessary.

[Talbot]

Tikki is a nice boat, but I think you need to look at more than just the ability to get around the upper deck. Although that is important, so is the ability to manoeuvre below deck (Galley/saloon/head/ and cabin)

The Wharram designs are great for you above deck, but not so good below.

The Dazcats are a really fun design derived from speed machines, and do a lot for disabled people, but I have always had the feeling that you must have a fully able crew with you as well, due to the nature of the craft. It is designed for speed, thus needs more looking after than a more stolid design.

I note your preference for the junk rig, and recognise its benefits in some areas. There are limited numbers of cats with junk sail designs, but I dont see that as a specific problem.

If I was starting from your position, I would be looking at deck and interior layouts that meet your mobility requirements, as the highest priority, with ability to single hand taking into account those mobility restrictions as an equally weighted requirement. I would then be talking to the designer/manufacturer about the ability/cost to transform into a junk rig.

I would also start looking at the ballestron rig, as that is more likely to be available, and may well meet your needs even better than the junk.

All of this of course, ignores the restrictions of budget.

You talk about a size of about 30 ft, you might want to reconsider that, as the smaller cats (as with monos) try to achieve as much living space as possible, at the expense sometimes of decent width passageways, or ladders to make getting from the bridgedeck down into the hulls.

There is another factor that needs consideration. The smaller a boat is (and the more sporty) the more it is bounced around by the sea conditions. I would expect you to find that a 37ft cat would be much easier to get around at sea than a 30ft cat as the motion will be more kindly. There are also a lot more boats of that size! (However, they are more costly!)

Thus I dont think we can give much more advice without some clue to the budget.

[2MT]

not much. its the reason i am looking into build it yourself boats. I have time and 30 years working on all kinds of fishing boats, tankers and exploration vessels.

very little money. I am talking a couple thousand.
medical bills took care of savings long ago and i cant do my career.
Before you ask you cant bring suit against someone who has no assets. (well you can but you don't get anything for it except lawyer bills)

my assets are:
Time.
Experience.
skill's.
and resourcefulness.

Thats it. I make a little teaching various skills but thats spotty for a new business with no debt.

What you say about getting around below decks is good sense and well worth heeding. this to was why the tiki 38 was my first thought. its got 6'2" head room as drawn.

yes i know its a hard place to start; this aint the first time i have seen the bottom of the barrel and at least i got no where to go but up.:cool: should be a heck of a ride.
check out the website in my sig for the full story i find it kinda depressing.

[3Psuite]

Have a look at the richardwoods Flica witch can be built in ply, I suspect that it would be around the same price to build the shell, and give you a more satifactory sailing performance.

It might take kindly to some of the DAZ like modifications as well. Richard is a nice guy and very approachable

PS mine is a fibre glass version - bigwow's maybe ply or at least mainly flat sheet and a very handsome boat.

regards and all the best with the project

[Talbot]

Flica is a nice design. I prefer the version that has an addded sugar scoop to the hull, and would look at the GRP fabricated hulls.

If I had the time and inclination for a complete build, I would prefer the cedar strip hulls to plywood. I think you end up with a better shape.

[2MT]

thanks for the flica idea I had not looked at it yet.

one thing i can get is western red cedar at $100 a unit.

if the boat can be strip built i got the stuff to build it with.

[Talbot]

thanks for the flica idea I had not looked at it yet.
one thing i can get is western red cedar at $100 a unit.
if the boat can be strip built i got the stuff to build it with.

If I remember correctly, some cedar builders add a profile to the strips of cedar such that the the top and bottom - one is concave and the other convex. Thus when laying it down, the top of the strip is curved so that the glue runs off on both sides, but when you put the next strip on top, the curve underneath the next strip naturally locates to the centre of the strip below, but allows a degree of curvature away from the vertical. It also provides more glue surface.

If building in ply, this is the materials list (from Richards web site)

Hulls:
26 sheets 9mm ply
110m 3" x 1"
200m 1 1/2" x 3/4"
8m 8" x 1" (for stem, or laminate from narrower strips)
Glass (to be compatible with epoxy)
60 Kg 600g Woven Roving or Biaxial Glass
25 Kg 300g cloth for sheathing
120Kg Epoxy resin
Note polyurethene glue (eg Balcotan) can be used instead of epoxy for interior, decking etc

Bulkheads, Bridgedeck, Keels etc:
16 sheets 9mm ply
12 sheets 12mm ply
3" x 2" 20m
2" x 1" 50m
3" x 1" 35m
4" x 1" 5m
300g cloth 10Kg

Decks
2 sheets 6mm ply
16 sheets 9mm ply
5 sheets 12mm ply
300g cloth 20Kg

Epoxy 70Kg

Interior
6 sheets 4mm ply
10 sheets 6mm ply
6 sheets 9mm ply
1" x 1" 30m
2" x 1" 20m


Thus you can cost the materials for the hull. But remember that that is probably only half the cost of the completed boat.

If going for this, definitely go for the 37ft version. The additional materials are almost inconsequential, but the difference to the finished product is significant.

More details http://www.sailingcatamarans.com/flica34.htm plus links to photos.

[IreAneY]

Hi Ernie

Welcome to the site, you have some interesting hobbies and good boat building skills.

A catamaran I would say is perfect for you as it will give you the space and stability which will help with your disabilities.

I would certainly look at the Richards Wood range http://www.sailingcatamarans.com/ as he has a good range, is a nice guy and helpful.

Good luck

[2MT]

the cedar strip method you are mentioning is cove and bead. these are my opinions on this method.
its advantages are:
1. locating centers
2. reduced fairing
3. controllable glue lines
4. greater gluing surface area
5. can do tighter and more compound curves
6. faster layup (in some cases)
7. less metal in the boat
8. visually pleasing
9.ease
10. much higher strength to weight ratio.

disadvantages:
1. uses more material due to cove and beading
2. slow build in some areas
3. floppy when removed from molds
4. most designers fail to spec strip dimensions
6. can be a spiling nightmare up next to keels.
7. requires pre planning.
8. most designers do not spec mold parts as bulkheads. (in the last twenty years i have seen exactly one designer of monohulls that did this and he's dead.)
9. any hull penetrations need to be planned in advance so the area around the fittings can be properly glassed. this is what kills many strip built hulls.
10. hard to repair.

this is after building a couple boats with this method. many of the disadvantages can be gotten around if you take the time to study the plans and work out the best method for each hull.
Example: the floppy hull when removed from the molds can be fixed if stringers are planned into the molds from the out set. you can make a mold collapsible so it can be removed. also making mold stations as the bulk heads allows you to fix the hull to the hard points required in the finished build. the pre prep needed is that the bulkhead/mold needs to get its coat of epoxy prior to setting up on the strong back. to fix the hull to the bulkhead/mold trunnels can be used to good effect.

since there is always an argument here about ease of glassing. My observations are:
1.the stringers that are most important to the floppy problem are those at the gunnels these are either the first things to be stripped over or the last. gluing them in is not a problem. Also you will be adding more epoxy to this area at any rate due to the chances of water penetration and the need to fillet the edges. for inside the hull the glued in stringer allows you a place to tack the interior cloth to the gunnel and not the hull planking and gives you a fair edge to work from. the fillet is then applied over the raw edge of the glass making the structure continuous.

2. at each bulk head you are putting a fillet and a 4 to 6 inch strip of glass on both sides. with the gunnel fit into the bulkhead station and the bulkhead station in place the hull is now much less likely to be floppy and you limit the amount of twist in long hulls.

3. having some structure in place prior to turn over speeds up the building process greatly by giving the builder some zones to work with and allowing the builder options for the application of glass. Example: I can lay the hull on its side to apply the glass to the inside of the hull this eliminates the concave curve problem and allows me to apply glass with the help of gravity. less time is spent trying to stick the glass to the inside of a vertical curve.

i run long on this subject and apologize for that.

[Talbot]

i run long on this subject and apologize for that.

Dont apologise. new experience and knowledge is always good