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Illusion_Reality
16th October 2009, 12:11 PM
A blustery day on Tuesday allowed us to push the 38 and see what she'll do. Wind averaged low 20 knts, hitting 30 in a gust over calm seas. We got her up to 10.5 SOG and 8 over water. A sticky bottom coffee cup wouldn't slip but the water bottles were flying around. This is one huge boat. To see over the bridgedeck you have to stand on the cockpit seats (if your 6 foot tall) my wife couldn't see unless she was steering (on the raised helm station) or inside looking through the saloon windows. I can't imagine an older couple handling this boat by themselves. It would be a seemless transition from a condo to this uh boat.
Mike

dmmbruce
16th October 2009, 03:06 PM
Ok, thanks, but which boat?

Any links, pics, video link, etc?

Mike (a different one!)

Illusion_Reality
16th October 2009, 05:17 PM
Sorry Leopard 38

http://www.leopardcatamarans.com/LeopardCatamarans/YachtsForSale/Leopard38.aspx

jkd
16th October 2009, 07:01 PM
A blustery day on Tuesday allowed us to push the 38 and see what she'll do. Wind averaged low 20 knts, hitting 30 in a gust over calm seas. We got her up to 10.5 SOG and 8 over water.
Mike

Mike,

Did you note how high the boat would point? What speed dropped to below 50 or 60 deg apparent? What angle the apparent wind was when you were seeing 8kts? What the motoring speed was?

Anything you can expand on I would appreciate.

John

Illusion_Reality
16th October 2009, 10:33 PM
We were pointing close to 40-45. We didn't lose too much as we fell off. We pointed higher than the lagoon 41 on starboard tack and even on port tack. Lagoon had a code zero and a squared main. Speed was nearly even in both.
LHSmith was onboard as well, he was at the helm a lot longer than I was and may remember more. We started at about 8knots of wind up to about 30. She tack flawlessly until the CW photographers starting making requests. The spade rudders would turn her in her own length.
Mike

Illusion_Reality
16th October 2009, 11:29 PM
I forgot the motor question. We putted out at 3.5 knots. He floored it up to 7 knots it was surprisingly loud, too loud. The engines are in a cavernous space with a large see thru (except for the deck tread on top) hatches. Nice access but sticky back sound insulation may be in order.
Mike

catabroker
18th October 2009, 01:21 AM
Here's a short video of the Leopard 38 sailing in the Chesapeak bay:


-bOdHTNYW8E


So far, 7 Leopard 38's have been sold for 2010 deliveries. It is a great catamaran, this cat is bound to become a classic.

Fair winds, Peter Wiersema
Leopard Global salesman of the year 2003 -2008
+1 954 260 4913
pwiersema@leopardcatamarans.com

jkd
18th October 2009, 03:06 AM
So far, 7 Leopard 38's have been sold for 2010 deliveries. It is a great catamaran, this cat is bound to become a classic.

Fair winds, Peter Wiersema
Leopard Global salesman of the year 2003 -2008


Thank you for posting that Peter. It was nice to have met you at Annapolis and I'm just sorry our discussion time was cut short by your need to retrieve important voice messages on your phone. I can certainly understand the burden of having the electronic leash on, however, I was looking forward to hearing all about the new 38 after flying in from Florida specifically to view it.
Well, perhaps I will get a chance again at Miami.

John

lhsmith
18th October 2009, 07:19 AM
I am working on a dataset and some videos for folks to look at. I was pleased with how both the Leopard 38 and 40 responded to the helm. The 38 should have been reefed during the 1-3PM period because we were overpowered and thus had significant weather helm. It was still manageable and responsive. We might have overtaken the Lagoon (new 42?) if we had stayed out longer, but I suspect that's because the Lagoon just doesn't sail that well.

My impression of the 38 is that it is a nimble and relatively compact boat that is well-designed for its intended purpose, the charter trade. And although it is hard to compare the 38 sailed from 1-3PM to the 40 sailed from 4-6PM with a different crew, I came away liking the handling and performance of the 40 better. That should be true considering the price difference between the 38 and 40.

And about price, the Leopard folks were a little upset with the claims that they were meddling with the announced price of the 38 at the show. Apparently the currency exchange rate has changed significantly recently, and price changes are tied thereto. If anyone has followed the exchange rate for a while, perhaps they can elaborate.

Leopard people told me that the weight difference between the 38 and 40 results from construction changes involving a major hull insert(s) that simplifies construction and reduces costs. Perhaps Peter can provide more details.

It appears to me that all the Leopards are well-made boats that are reasonably priced because of consistent construction and a narrow range of options. R&C/TUI has a good reputation with every owner I've talked with because they honor warranties without much hesitation. As for their sales people, I found them approachable and helpful. I only wish that the delivery captains had been kept around for the demo sails and to describe to prospective buyers how the boats handle at sea.

paulrack
18th October 2009, 01:09 PM
The rand has strengthened against the dollar It was R8.30 a few months ago (was about R10 a year ago). It is now about R7.33.

jkd
18th October 2009, 01:14 PM
Looking forward to your pics and any further info you can provide.



And about price, the Leopard folks were a little upset with the claims that they were meddling with the announced price of the 38 at the show. Apparently the currency exchange rate has changed significantly recently, and price changes are tied thereto.

It appears to me that all the Leopards are well-made boats that are reasonably priced because of consistent construction and a narrow range of options. R&C/TUI has a good reputation with every owner I've talked with because they honor warranties without much hesitation.

Re price change; Well that makes more sense than the explanation I was given, which was it was due to it being a "hot boat". Inferring that it was a purely profit driven motive.

Re construction; Agreed. If people were comparing construction between the new models, (FP 40, Lagoon 400, R&C 38) the R&C 38 was by far the better product in fit and finish.

A couple of questions if you don't mind;
Did you have any issues with interference between the winches and the throttles?
Did you feel there were any visibility issues when operating at the helm or viewing from other areas of the cockpit or salon?

Thanks,

John

lhsmith
18th October 2009, 04:51 PM
Did you have any issues with interference between the winches and the throttles?
Did you feel there were any visibility issues when operating at the helm or viewing from other areas of the cockpit or salon?


Assuming that you are talking about the 38 demo only:

First, this was my first firsthand experience with these helms. Second, we had too many folks around the helm and were getting in each other's ways. Third, the lines were slipping in the spinlocks for some unknown reason. With these caveats I think the system is workable. You usually don't use the throttles and winches at the same time, so I don't think they are too close to each other.
I am a little concerned about how it will work when main halyard and reefing lines are brought into the same area. Knowledgeable folks tell me I should leave them at the mast, but I am concerned about safety in bad weather and want them close at hand.

Visibility is a problem for me on all of these boats because I am shorter than average. I may have to try Ian's solution and wear high heels. I'm sorry we didn't recognize each other. We could have raised a couple of glasses hoping for improvement in Ian's intelligence.:D

jkd
18th October 2009, 05:28 PM
I'm sorry we didn't recognize each other. We could have raised a couple of glasses hoping for improvement in Ian's intelligence.:D

Indeed, at the very least after a sizable portion we would have been able to be on the same level with him.:D

On the throttles; I was concerned that you can't get a full spin on the inboard winch handle without hitting the throttles.

John

IreAneY
18th October 2009, 05:51 PM
Dear, dear, dear, now Larry and John I realise that you feel dreadfully inferior to me and are both trying to reach that high level (and I do not mean high as in high heels high;)) of intelligence that I am on, but this could cause you both some serious mental scars, so when we meet, I will tone my intelligence level down to that of Prairie Dog and we will all have a great time. ::)

Indeed, at the very least after a sizable portion we would have been able to be on the same level with him.:D
John

lhsmith
18th October 2009, 07:00 PM
It's hard to believe that Ian thinks he's smarter than a prairie dog!:D

Winch handles: A shorter winch handle would solve the problem. I was surprised at how long the winch handle was -- I don't think one needs the additional leverage.

IreAneY
18th October 2009, 07:03 PM
Oi Sunshine, you are getting nearly as lippy as that lunatic from Florida. :D


It's hard to believe that Ian thinks he's smarter than a prairie dog!:D

Winch handles: A shorter winch handle would solve the problem. I was surprised at how long the winch handle was -- I don't think one needs the additional leverage.

lhsmith
20th October 2009, 06:52 AM
Oi Sunshine, you are getting nearly as lippy as that lunatic from Florida. :D

:eek:Now just wait a d****d minute. I may have been on the same boat and almost drunk beer with this guy, but that doesn't give you the right to make such insulting comparisons! If the Leopard folks show the uncut video of the 38, it was he that pissed off the stern just before he staggered forward and released the anchor while the boat was making 8 knots muttering something about showing those rude sales people a thing or two. In his defence, he may have been drunk, but he knew they could stop the boat before all of the anchor line paid out.:rolleyes::D::)

Nordic
20th October 2009, 10:40 AM
The boat looks very low off the water when seen from astern. There was a bit of chop, but not much. What was the slamming like?

Alan

jkd
20th October 2009, 02:20 PM
The boat looks very low off the water when seen from astern.
Alan

Visually the stern bridgedeck looked the same height as the R&C 40 when it was at the dock or maybe an inch or two lower at the most.

John

lhsmith
20th October 2009, 05:01 PM
Leopard folks told me that the 38 and 40 have the same clearance bow to stern, about 26". I noticed no slapping or slamming on the 38 and only a little slapping on the 40 headed upwind late in the afternoon. However, the benign conditions plus light loading of the boats were no real test.

Talking to delivery captains, I hear that all the cats slap to some degree and that the Leopards do as well as some other boats with more clearance. The boats aren't loaded down to design waterline on deliveries, but they sure see all manner of sea conditions.

jkd
20th October 2009, 11:21 PM
If the Leopard folks show the uncut video of the 38, it was he that pissed off the stern just before he staggered forward and released the anchor

I think it time to answer these spurious charges; I was unable to remain in town for the demo days ride, therefore could NOT have done such a thing. However until the grand jury finishes its work I cannot comment on whether something oddly similar to this account happened while the boat was at the dock during the show on Sunday.:rolleyes::o:D

John