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Careka
15th December 2009, 12:20 PM
Anybody got one ?
i see there are a lot for sale, x-charter boats.
but i also read that Moorings have not been reparing boat the way they must.
so buying one can be a big cost comming ?

:confused:

searenitysail
16th December 2009, 12:40 AM
Chartered one in BVI from Moorings last February. Nice boat, plenty of room in forward cabins. Heads are small, larger than in a Fountain Pajot Athena 38, but much smaller than in my boat! But then they do have 4 heads!

That was the main reason we chartered a Leopard 43/Moorings 4300 instead of the Leopard 40/Moorings 4000 (which I really liked at Annapolis in 2006) --PRIVACY! We were the only couple that had bareboat chartered prior, one couple had done a crewed charter, and two couples had never been on a charter before. I figured that the best way to preserve friendships was to make sure everyone had privacy.

Boat handled well under sail, though not a speed demon. Felt comfortable in some rough weather and even the neophyte couple were OK with that. Handling with engines was a dream. Despite the windage of the hull, the power and thrust of the engines was really appreciated. It almost made it tough to go back to my little Yanmar 2gms.

As far as maintenance--I always felt I if I were to purchase a catamaran out of charter, it would probably be a Moorings boat as their maintenance program is supposed to be so good. However, I might have to think twice about that.

There were four boats from our YC under charter that same week and each of us has minor problems--all undoubtedly maintenance items. In our case we lost 1-2 hours up in North Sound (fortunately there is a Moorings satellite service facility up there) when the starboard engine wouldn't start. I probably could have eventually figured it out, but when I am paying that kind of money I figure I should let Moorings do it.

It turned out to be corrosion on the battery terminals--that is such a simple maintenance item that could/should easily be taken care of every couple of months, especially in a salt water environment! It made me consider that if Moorings couldn't take care of a simple maintenance item like that, what about the not so simple ones!

I do have to say the charter was an enjoyable one with no further problems. I would charter a Leopard 43 again if privacy was an issue, but I would rather take 3 or four couples who really get along and jump on that new Sunsail 384/Leopard 38! It sounds like maybe you should wait 5 years for one of those to come out of charter!

Marshall

seamanstaines
31st January 2010, 09:10 PM
I own a Leopad 42 in the UK which I purchased new from Moorings and was with them for six seasons on charter. I now live aboard her and are refitting for cruising. She survived the charter very well, providing the owner has done a reasonable job of managing the phase out it will be fine. Generally, they are looked after ok but I suspect that it is more of a credit to the original build quality that mine is in such good condition

JustCatamarans
2nd February 2010, 12:27 AM
We have received a number of ex-charter 43's to our facility in Ft. lauderdale in order to outfit them to the new owners specs, and apart from the usual wear and tear, there are no consistent issues with the 43 range.
The engines tend to vibrate more than some other cats, but I think that is specific to the design, not a problem. The boats are shaft drive.
The windows sometimes age faster, depends on what the cleaning crews use to clean them.

lhsmith
23rd May 2012, 07:54 AM
We now have an owner's version '43 under contract and expect to take possession in August if everything goes right. We can't tell you much about her yet because she is in the Mediterranean and we are in California. We will survey her and do a sea trial in late June, and should be able to say more soon thereafter.

I can say that we selected a 43 because it is small enough for a couple to handle, because of its reported sea-keeping characteristics sailing downwind (which we expect to do a lot of), because it has a big payload in addition to ample tankage, because it has simpler-to-maintain straight shaft drive, and because we expect the layout and galley to be right for us as full-time liveaboards.

We would much appreciate hearing from other 42/43 owners any potential issues to look for during the survey.

searenitysail
23rd May 2012, 06:14 PM
We now have an owner's version '43 under contract...We would much appreciate hearing...any potential issues to look for during the survey.

Well, we only chartered it for a week, but I though the davits were kind of shaky.

If I recall correctly, they were "built in" and were delaminating or cracking.

Now it was a charter boat, but I think I read/heard elsewhere of that as a problem area.

Good luck.

Marshall

Karen
23rd May 2012, 09:40 PM
I though the davits were kind of shaky.

If I recall correctly, they were "built in" and were delaminating or cracking.

Now it was a charter boat, but I think I read/heard elsewhere of that as a problem area.

Good luck.

Marshall

We chartered a Leopard 40 back in 2005 - so a different model, of course; but the davitts were very flimsy on that, too. Coming back into Tortola at the end of the charter, we saw another 40 with the davitts broken off.

FLLCatsailor
2nd August 2012, 10:45 PM
The L43's are great boats. When I was a Moorings base manager we always had a pretty easy time keeping these boats up and running.

The diesels, like Just Cats said do tend to vibrate a bit. The only other issue I can think of is sometimes the fwd ports leak a bit. Minor fix.

I would also change the rigging on the head sail so that the port job sheet is back at the helm... Another easy fix.

Great boats, and very solidly built.

lhsmith
14th September 2012, 05:56 AM
So, after the sea trial and survey, I am convinced that we have a good boat, and the refinance marathon is over so she really is ours. I think her qualities are partly the Simonis design, partly the quality of R&C's construction, and partly a great first owner.
I thank everyone on this forum and the Yahoo Leopard owner's forum for telling me where to look. Except for the expected problems with seals of the big windows, this boat appears to be free of issues. Her owner has already glassed in the lower part of the liferaft locker; her keels were glassed in before the original delivery and are dry inside; her rudders are completely dry. Windows were resealed as a result of the survey, and minor cosmetic and mechanical issues were fixed. She has a new bottom coat over an existing epoxy barrier coat that has kept the hulls very moisture free.
We will be visiting her for the next 2 weeks, and I hope to get a better feel for how she sails. The sea trial experience was in light air with the hulls riding 20-30cm above the design waterline. She was relatively responsive for such a big boat under those conditions compared to the other 43 I have sailed, which is loaded with generator, AC, etc and was down on her design WL.
The one thing that surprised me was that her transoms were awash under power with no dinghy on the davits. There is nothing heavy to remove from the stern area, so I am a bit puzzled. Do others have this experience with an unloaded boat?
Also, I did not feel a lot of engine vibration at any RPM, and we held the engines at 3000 RPM for about 15 minutes during the survey. Could it be because the engines only have 1100 hours? (Maybe I am used to a lot of vibration -- my present monohull has a trusty old, noisy, rumbling Westerbeke 21.)
I've tried to put a few pics in an album, but somehow I don't have the permissions yet to upload photos. Please stay tuned.

searenitysail
14th September 2012, 02:23 PM
Larry,
Good luck with your boat!

Marshall

multihullsailor6
14th September 2012, 02:32 PM
Larry,

Congratulations on your new boat - I thought "Sacred Spirit" looked very well maintained as you have now confirmed. What are you going to call her?
May you have many happy seamiles on her!

lhsmith
7th November 2012, 04:54 PM
Sorry, I just now saw your posts. Thank you for your kind words. She will be rechristened Harmonia, Greek goddess of coming together and harmony, with a positive nod from first owner. She was such an obvious joy to him that we have asked him to retain a key and visit whenever he can. We will post pics when the moderators have resolved our permissions issues.

We have already said why we selected a 43, but I have to say I was surprised recently when I looked at performance/stability numbers at http://www.multihulldynamics.com/multihulldataStep1.asp
I pulled numbers for several cats in the same range (Privilege, Perry, Lagoon, Leopard 44), and the 43 compares quite well. Maybe that's part of why R&C has rehired Alex Simonis to design new models.

Looking forward to seeing folks on the water and sailing together.

Fair winds,

Dave
8th November 2012, 03:20 AM
<snip>
The one thing that surprised me was that her transoms were awash under power with no dinghy on the davits. There is nothing heavy to remove from the stern area, so I am a bit puzzled. Do others have this experience with an unloaded boat?
<snip>.

Yes, Leopards in general tend to squat under power. Some models more than others.

Dave L38 #38

lhsmith
8th November 2012, 06:18 AM
We found the first time we left the dock that the boat did not squat as much, a result of having filled the water tanks forward of the mast?

searenitysail
23rd March 2013, 02:01 AM
Well, we only chartered it for a week, but ...

Marshall

Off to the BVI tomorrow for another week on a Moorings 4300/Leopard 43 again. First charter in four years--life (and sh*t) happens!

We scheduled a last minute trip with three other couples--catamaran pickings were slim with Easter vacation and the BVI Spring Regatta the same week. I really wanted to try the Leopard 44, but no luck finding one of those. Two new couples this trip meant four separate heads to help minimize privacy fears!

I'll try to pay more attention to the Leopard 43 this time so I can pass information on to anyone on the forum interested. It will be interesting to see how the boat has "weathered" at least five years of chartering.

By my best "guesstimation" this is probably one of the last trips for this boat in the Moorings fleet as it has got to be pretty close to the 5-year "age out" life they keep their boats for before turning them over to Footloose Charters (or put up for sale).

Be back after Easter, but have to get this off my chest (or under my keels)...

...my friends on the forum, don't let WCM268 get under your skin--I don't let him anymore since I noticed he states "It's got Daggerboards" but he doesn't say what "it" is!!!! Does he actually own a multihull (Besides a Tornado?) or is he just "blowing smoke"?

He might know a lot more than me (I know he rants more), but I don't know that he actually owns a cat or tri yet, and a lot more experienced designers/builders on this forum than him haven't jumped on his bandwagon. He just might be proving the saying "talk is cheap!"

All I know is the tone on the forum changes when he is around, and it isn't a positive one!!! I hope if we don't engage him, he goes away!

I can't wait to hear him chime in on my choice of a charter boat!

Now that I've opened that can of worms, I'm going to bed! The ride picks me up for the airport at 3:30 am! Have a good week--I'll try to!!! I'll be back after Easter.

Target splash date for Searenity is mid-to-late April. This trip should get me motivated to do some work on her when I get home!

Larry, I hope things are going well with your Leopard 43!

Marshalll

lhsmith
23rd March 2013, 05:29 AM
Marshall:
Bon Voyage! We look forward to hearing about your charter when you return.
The Admiral has now retired, so we are getting closer to being aboard. Then we will begin benefiting from your experience and wisdom.
Fair winds,
Larry

searenitysail
10th April 2013, 03:15 AM
Larry,

Your comments to me indicate that you already have a pretty good "feel" for the boat. My impressions of the Leopard 43 are still mostly positive.

I didn't really pay attention to the "squatting" under power last time, but did notice this time--even with both water tanks full. It didn't seem to effect speed too much, but I don't see how it could not have. As fuel consumption wasn't an issue for us, I didn't really monitor that. I can say, though, if the fuel gauges were accurate the engines are quite economical (though 2600-2800 rpm was the max we usually ran at).

One day, Friday, there were some squalls moving through and Sir Francis Drake Channel had a pretty good chop. I noticed more bridge deck slap than I had remembered from four years ago, and certainly more than on our sail to Anegada or our sail back to Little Jost Van Dyke.

Performance was acceptable--we did hit 8.5 kts at one point on Friday; all the rest of the crew were "single minded" sailors and were impressed by both the room, comfort, and performance of the Leopard 43. We did catch a Lagoon 440 one day much more easily than I thought we should but, in the spirit of full disclosure, they DID have five fenders hanging over the starboard side!

The mainsail is a "bear" to raise; however with two males jumping the main halyard we were able to raise the mainsail to within four feet of the top of the mast; a cinch to winch the rest of the way. If I were just a cruising couple on this boat though, I might want to consider changing the winch.

The masthead rigged genoa is a BIG sail. Consequently it offers a lot of sail to the wind when sailing well off the wind. I found that moving the jib cars forward a bit (depending on the wind angle) and cleating the "lazy" sheet to either of the forward cleats (again, depending on the wind angle) worked quite well given the absence of a pole. An increase in boat speed was definitely noticed and it certainly eliminated a lot of sail flapping.

As before, I noticed the dinghy davits showed some fatigue and this is an area I think anyone considering a Leopard 43 should check.

Checking the oil is a pain. No hot water on the stern step shower! What's that about? I even have one on Searenity!

Refrigeration and freezer are superb, IMHO.

Too many salon lights means energy consumption when cruising--I would definitely go LED if it was my boat!

No problem with the anchor position when anchoring, though I am aware of complaints. I don't know if this is actually a problem or just "purists" who prefer the anchor on a roller going over the crossbar. Searenity's anchor does and I do prefer that setup, but had no problem with the Leopard setup. I think it may actually facilitate letting out the chain quicker as you back down from the anchor drop point!

As I said, this was probably one of the last trips for "Retirement Fun" in the Moorings fleet--it was probably one of the oldest cats, but was still in good shape.

Moorings appears to be giving preference to the power cats, as they are all docked closest to the Drake Channel and the Moorings Office. I was surprised as to how many there were compared to four years ago.

The Leopard 44 is extremely noticeable in both the Moorings and Sunsail fleets (same base) and it makes a lot of sense to cruise the BVI's in that boat. You sit at anchor/mooring in the forward cockpit with your rum drink with the breeze blowing in your face is just paradise! We were impressed by that boat at the Newport Boat Show in September and would have liked to be on one of those but none available.

We crossed off a lot of items on the BVI "to do" list that we hadn't gotten to on previous charters including snorkel the Indians, Anegada/Loblolly Bay, the Bubbly Pool on Little Jost, Full-Moon Party at Bomba Shack, heard Quito Rymer play at Quito's Gazebo, and had Painkillers at Soggy Dollar Bar.

I guess, the best thing about the trip is that it got me motivated to get Searenity ready to launch. I am just about finished waxing her and she should get her bottom painted by early next week. Goal is to launch by the end of next week, weather cooperating.

I hope you may find some value in my rambling, and I wish you many oceans of smooth sailing on Harmonia.

Marshall

lhsmith
10th April 2013, 08:20 AM
Marshall!
Great post, thank you. Sounds like your charter was a lot of fun. I really appreciate your attention to details and comments. I will add a few comparisons and comments.
I would be pleased with 8.5 knots, having lived with length limited monohulls heretofore. One owner reported to me a 200-mile day sailing downwind in the Gulf of Mexico, so I think such a speed is sustainable. I probably would not push our boat that hard in the dark. Considering the sleakness of the underwater portion of the hulls and the big SA/D ratio, I expect the 43 could exceed 10 knots in flat water. I am curious to learn how much of an issue slamming will be at higher speeds with significant chop.
Our mainsail is easy to raise. I am able to get it about halfway up without a winch, until the weight of the sail becomes a factor. Then we switch to an electric winch. I suspect the track and cars needed lubrication on your charter boat.
Both of the 43s I have been aboard had scalding hot water at the port transom near the port hot water heater.
I have yet to check fuel consumption of our engines, but have been led to expect somewhere between 0.5 and 1 gallon/hour.
Other Leopard owners seem unconcerned about the anchor position aft of the bows. I was conditioned to dislike the configuration until I saw how easily the anchor was deployed and retrieved with engines. And of course there is an advantage to having as much as possible of the weight of the ground tackle amidships.
Routine engine checks will drive me crazy unless we figure a way to open the engine compartments more easily. I am thinking of extra latches and/or something to raise the mattresses easily. I have yet to see easy engine access under a bunk on any boat, but there must be a solution.
I imagine that you would feel at home in the 44 given that you already have an M&M design. Being a worrier, I would look carefully at the design of the front door.
How far have you wandered with Searenity? I imagine she would do well in the Carib, and us Med folks would certainly welcome you to our part of the world. How about showing us some launch pics when you have time.
Fair winds,
Larry

searenitysail
10th April 2013, 03:15 PM
Marshall!
Great post, thank you. Sounds like your charter was a lot of fun. I really appreciate your attention to details and comments. I will add a few comparisons and comments...
... I am curious to learn how much of an issue slamming will be at higher speeds with significant chop...
...Our mainsail is easy to raise. I am able to get it about halfway up...Then we switch to an electric winch. I suspect the track and cars needed lubrication on your charter boat...
...Both of the 43s I have been aboard had scalding hot water at the port transom near the port hot water heater...
...How far have you wandered with Searenity? I imagine she would do well in the Carib...How about showing us some launch pics when you have time.
Fair winds,
Larry

Larry,

I it helps.

Larry,

I wouldn't say there was "slamming" of the bridgedeck, more of a noticeable "slapping" and it wasn't really annoying--I got used to it real fast--I just noticed it as I was trying to make mental notes for my post.

The mainsail had ball-bearing cars that slid fairly easily--I guess I'm just a wimp. Electric winch was what I had in mind.

As far as hot water, there was no hot water knob on the stern shower--just one on/off knob. Water inside the boat was plenty hot.

We have just cruised around the south shore of Long Island so far. We had some grand plans when we bought Searenity, but personal tragedy unfortunately struck and we never got to use her like we planned. We hope to be emotionally ready to expand our cruising this summer. Interestingly, while we were in the BVI, my wife asked if I would be able to get Searenity down to the Caribbean! I would be as comfortable on her in the BVI's as I was on the two Tobago 35s we chartered.

There are some older pictures in the album on my profile page.

Marshall

Peter
10th April 2013, 04:12 PM
I would be as comfortable on her in the BVI's as I was on the two Tobago 35s we chartered.

Would that be a quadamaran or a quatramaran ?:tic)

searenitysail
11th April 2013, 03:02 AM
Would that be a quadamaran or a quatramaran ?:tic)

Good one! Or a Tobago 70?

Actually we chartered one in 1997 (2-cabin, 2-head) and one in 1999 (3-cabin, 1-head).

Marshall