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BackonLand
15th November 2010, 09:29 AM
As the title implies this forum is not a forum for owners of FastCats. The people who speak out in the FastCat section of this forum are not owners of FastCats, but have a strong bias against the boats. I own a FastCat, but if I say how my experience has been sailing over 25,000 nautical miles with one, in the eyes of the people on this forum, it doesn't count, because I've become a good friend with Gideon Goudsmit, the owner of African Cats. When you own hull number 1, what is more natural than developing a friendship (as long as you are happy) with the builder of your boat?

This means that anyone interested in a FastCat won't get the real picture by reading posts on this forum.

I therefore warn anyone who's interested in FastCats not to trust what you read on this forum, but rather contact, myself on African Innovation (http://www.julseth.com), Frank on African Seawing (http://www.seawing.be/), and Dick on Butterfly (http://butterflyandbarnacle.wordpress.com/). The three of us have had different experiences, but at least you'll get the real picture and not what the rumormongers on this forum are out to spread.

- Andreas

ForumAdmin
15th November 2010, 10:46 AM
I really wish you could just begin to understand that your ignoring of all the fantasy claims etc, your ignoring of the total fabrications and matters such as the current court case are clear to everyone top see and make up their own mind about.

You dismiss the current court case were Gideon did not even turn up stating it is not our business and that he may yet win. Well if he is going toi win he is going about it a very strange way by not turning up. You accuse me of caring too much on such matters yet later in your posts accuse me of being a hard businessman and not caring. You have almost entered the world of Gideon where such contradictions are the norm:)

You ignore the way you were totally misrepresented to us by Gideon. Had you not been so honest he may have got away with it.

You ignore the long suffering B&B saga as if that was another human being and not Gideon who gave such a deplorable service.

You make personal attacks on me as you brush aside what are by any standard legitimate concerns of anyone investigating Fastcats in order to begin to deal with Gideon.

All I have ever written about you is that you are honest and sincere, I disagree with you in open uncensored forum and you claim there is no free speech and that you are better of going to the CE forum!!! Yet this thread warning readers not to take any notice of this Owners forum would never be allowed on CE .... it will stand here because that is your freely expressed view.

I appreciate that you have a Fastcat to sell after one very short ownership period but given that you claim how much everyone adores her after just stepping onto to her let alone sailing her, you should have no problem selling her should you?

I have always written that once all the problems are sorted out I am sure the Fastcat will be a nice boat and all seem to agree that they sail well.

I hope once you sell your boat you drop your ostrich like stance and do not get too hurt too much in the process. I still have my concerns about your boat being registered to the name of a company owned by Gideon. You do not. in either event, I wish you all the best and that you recover your money which I totally appreciate is of prime importance to you.

ForumAdmin
15th November 2010, 11:47 AM
What has just occurred to me - if this is not the forum for fast cat owners is the forum run by Gideon with its secret content and only three members the place to go?:):):):)

African Seawing
15th November 2010, 05:02 PM
19 members on African Cats forum
27 members on Green E-motion forum

An other lie Paul?

African Seawing
15th November 2010, 05:07 PM
You are not helping the existing Fastcat boat owners Paul, not even Butterfly as by always looking to the past, nagging, nagging and nagging the same old stuff you are bringing down the value of our boat's. And that's far more then your 1400£ loss. Far far more.

What service considers, at St Maarten a package will wait for us with 8 new bilge pumps, epoxy poles for the trampoline, all in guaranty. Also new Dynema SK90 for 50% of the price of the old one. That's a fair deal considering we will have the net for 4 years and 8 years guaranty was provided.

The bilge pumps where connected in the bilge and that was a wrong approach leaving only 15cm wire on the bilge pumps. Salt water then capilated into the pumps. So, I get 8 new ones.

The trampoline was my doing building this system myself in Durban. At the time then we all seemed to be happy with it. Unfortunaly we had no time record yet. 2 mistakes where made, 1 the RVC poles should have been polished, 2 the pulling ropes should not come in contact with the net. That's all solved now and I've been well compensated for an error where I was on the first hand myself.

Gideons lies and exaggerations are hopefully in the past. He had to learn himself not to do so. It is proven he does not do that anymore since you can only dig up old stuff. I think amnesty is not in your book.

Only one boat seems to have bad service and we all now how that happed hey Paul. You can not expect to have full good service from people who's only goal is to prevent Gideon to sell one more boat, can you? You and Butterfly call that "warning future buyers from becoming victims of Gideon". Well I think you have succeeded Paul. There's enough rubbish to be found on internet. You can stop now and try to get in real time modus now.

I think that my loss in second hand sale would be something around 100.000€. Over all the boat sold so far we get near 1.000.000€. Even Butterfly who told me they don’t care anymore about the value of there boat will do one day and give the blame to Gideon.

Thank you for helping us Paul. Stop helping us please.

Frank

Don’t play the man, play the ball.http://www.multihulls4us.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

ForumAdmin
15th November 2010, 07:15 PM
19 members on African Cats forum
27 members on Green E-motion forum

An other lie Paul?

I was taking the same view as expressed by Andreas - only those who own fastcats. The forum is not open and is not free speech. You have to be invited on by Gideon to join his world.

ForumAdmin
15th November 2010, 07:21 PM
You are not helping the existing Fastcat boat owners Paul, not even Butterfly as by always looking to the past, nagging, nagging and nagging the same old stuff you are bringing down the value of our boat's. And that's far more then your 1400£ loss. Far far more.

I was not looking to the past - the current court case and magazine article are what sparked off new discussion but what has sparked off most discussion is you and Andreas. You two have managed to rake over all the old stuff - very well done the best home goal ever::)

Your list of problems and warranty claims honoured is not nor ever has been in dispute.


Thank you for helping us Paul. Stop helping us please.

Frank

Donít play the man, play the ball.


Amazing ... I have never tried to help you - just B&b and to help warn others thinking about taking the step.

As regards playing the ball not the man I have never insulted you but you have personally attacked me. it does not bother me at all but it does make you the hypocrite.:)

Nordic
15th November 2010, 09:28 PM
Frank,

I can understand your concerns about all the facts about build quality issues of Fastcats being so readily available to anyone searching for information on Fastcats.

Maybe if you think back to the time you decided you had to leave Durban, how mad you were with all the delays and quality issues on your boat.

The first trips etc. You had all the nasty facts in full view, yet Gideon did not cooperate or attempt to help you.

This forum has made all the issues about Gideon Goudsmit of African Cats readily available and easy to find. As long as Gideon Goudsmit had full order books he didn't give a damn about you his customers. Once the orders dried up, and only then, did he even begin to help 2 of the 3 owners out there.

Without this forum Gideon would not even acknowledge your existence, let alone be "helping" you. His boats to date have all had major quality issues, and not performed anything as well as he claims.

IMO Gideon Goudsmit is not the kind of person you would want to do business with.

He is a master at hyping his products on Cruisers Forum, he is protected there because he buys advertising.

One little lie from him, he had orders for at least 10 Fastcats 435-455 a couple of years ago, how many have been built since then?? Not one for a customer since Butterfly!

Frank if you think about the pain and agony you have been through in dealing with African Fastcats and Gideon Goudsmit, I'm sure you would not wish that on another person.

The sad side effect is of course the lower resale value on these boats. When the yard goes belly-up, you can probably expect a further drop in sales value, but after a few more years the influence will fade.

I can see that there have been a number of changes to your blog in the past few months, are you also shortly going to put your boat up for sale, or is it in support of Andreas who has his boat up for sale?


I hope that you and your family have many enjoyable years on the boat as she hopefully is getting sorted out by now. Please stay open and honest and answer any questions about Gideon Goudsmit and African Fastcats truthfully to potential buyers of new boats.

Alan

sigmasailor
15th November 2010, 09:48 PM
Dear Paul,

I have been trying to understand what is happening on the Multihull forum for a while. I just do not get it.

I joined the forum to discuss my own experiences with a Lagoon 380 earlier this year and came across some (old) topics about Fastcats. At about the same time I had a similar (Lagoon) discussion on CF (and was bashed because they do not seem to understand that Mono’s and Multi’s both have their pro’s and con’s). On the CF forum I also came across the Fastcat Emotion concept, was sceptical at first but became more and more intrigued by this application of new technology. I got in touch with Gideon who patiently answered all my questions and eventually, kindly, showed me his boat (test sail with Chris). As I got to know him better I discovered he is a nice guy with the absolute passion to build the perfect cat.

Yes, I also read (all ‘here say’ from my point of view) the problems delivering the first cats. Rather than blaming Gideon for bad QC or quality in general to my opinion Gideon’s enthusiasm got the better of him and he was overly optimistic. Weren’t all major problems properly solved in the end?

So, what happened next: on every occasion possible you attacked Gideon’s Business (he must employ a couple of dozen, or maybe even a dozen dozen, people); indirectly you also attack those who rely on his business. I never understood why. It cannot be the 1400 euro’s you paid in flights; I’m sure you got valuable advice in return even if you didn’t manage to close a deal with Gideon.

The last week is the worst week ever. Two owners (Andreas and Frank) try to put a positive light on the Fastcat and are bashed by yourself and some followers who probably have never even seen a Fastcat, let alone have the privilege to sail on one. The bashing does get a bit boring; the same is repeated over and over.

For the whiz kids on the Forum: feel free to check my IP address if you like; you will find my provider is a company called Lybrandt in Hillegom about 30 miles away from Gideon. Really, I do not work for him nor does he ask me to post on the forum. I do sympathise with Gideon for spending lots of money at his own risk (lots of things are subsidised in the Netherlands but the development of pleasure craft is definitely not among those) in the development of the perfect (green) boat.

I also sympathised with yourself when I saw you struggling with the quality of your new boat; thanks to Jaco that’s all sorted now and we all envy you in good way for where you are right now. Let’s not forget that part of the fun of owning your own boat lies in being able to fix things that will continue to break thanks to our mutual friend Murphy.

So, there we are with myself wondering why two people who, to my humble opinion, are both sympathetic seem to get along so badly. Gideon has given up long ago to defend himself (can’t blame him for that); you continue to find the energy to keep attacking him every opportunity you get, even from far away and beautiful Grenada. There must be something we are not aware off.

Please Paul; tell us what is really bugging you; repeating the same stuff over and over again becomes extremely boring.

Eric

Nordic
15th November 2010, 10:11 PM
Eric,

I was initially enthralled by all the wonderful facts and information Gideon was providing, and I actually went and had a look at a Fastcat in La Rochelle. This boat was later sold to Andreas.

The finish inside was terrible, wiring and tubing/pipes were definitely not what I would expect. I started checking out some of Gideons claims, like his boat speeds. His first boat sailed from Durban to the Caribbean at a fairly respectable 6,8 knots (as far as i remember) ,Gideon had a spreadsheet on his site showing this, yet he continued to claim over 9 knots or so. When challenged, the spreadsheet from his site "mysteriously got deleted", I can find the whole exchange on CF if you want.

Gideon is a charlatan and only tells you the part of the story that benefits him, join the multihull club in Holland, go to a few meetings and ask around, speak to people with first hand experience in dealing with him, and then come to a conclusion about him.

I'm not an expert on human behavior, but I think the kind of behavior Gideon displays is known as psychopathic? They can be ever so charming, but totally untrustworthy.

Keep well

Alan

Yoga O
15th November 2010, 10:38 PM
Dear Paul,

I have been trying to understand what is happening on the Multihull forum for a while. I just do not get it...

Werenít all major problems properly solved in the end?
...
Eric

Eric,

I believe that the answer is NO! The major problems were not solved. Indeed, they were ignored, at best, and Gideon claimed the owners were making false claims. I have met them and seen their boat. Gideon's stance is to my reasonable eye, unreasonable. :mad:

In addition, when subsequent problems have arisen, Gideon has not only ignored them, but he has claimed on CF that they do not exist, while touting how extraordinary his products and support are. The sad saga of Dick & Karen on B&B is eerily similar to what we have seen with Admiral Cats and Oceans Dreams.

Perhaps some background also is in order (at least from my view).

I am sure I am like others on this forum. I own a cat. I have no intention of buying a FastCat or a Green e-Motion FastCat, but I am interested in what cat buyers, builders and owners are experiencing. That I am not going to buy a FastCat should not disqualify me from commenting on both the good and bad aspects of the boats including the support new owners receive from the manufacturer.

Prior to your joining both CF and this forum, Gideon made numerous and repeated claims of high volumes of boats built, and of high volumes of Green e-Motion cats built with incredible, seemingly unbelievable performance numbers, weights, etc. Many CF members questioned him and he never provided direct answers. As a result, many CF members who pointedly questioned Gideon were removed from the forum for "not following the rules", while Gideon was never removed for violating the spirit if not the letter of those same rules.

On multiple threads, I asked Gideon if perhaps he was "gilding the lily" a bit, AND I politely asked if there was a language barrier. Because I was polite, my posts were just removed after Gideon failed to answer a single post directly.

In short, Gideon has spoken in hyperbole at best and some would call it lying. There is one owner who has not received anything close to an acceptable level of service for some serious errors in construction. If there are only 3 owners, this seems pretty significant.

IMO, Gideon could do himself a world of good if he came on this forum and stated that he was previously "overstating" the facts, that he has turned over a new leaf in the hopes of building the best electrically powered cats, that he will send someone like "Jaco" to fix the problems with B&B, and/or reimburse them their expenses for things they fixed that he was responsible for.

I am sure that everyone here is glad that the other owners feel they have received the proper support and that their boats perform well. But the "he said - she said" back and forth, "play the ball" nonsense is unattractive to all, and speaks poorly of African Seawing and Backonland.

Fair Winds,
Mike