Seawind 1000xl

[Ozmultis]

So guys (and gals) - I am thinking of getting one of these, opinions and views please

[therapy]

On my dream list.
One of the top four.

+ Wonderful salon
+ Visibility
+ Dual steering stations
+ Opening salon windows option (air in tropics)
+ Most everything else really

- Lines back to cockpit are right where you walk and take up too much area.
- Small freezer
- Just me - I don't need such large salon doors.

[catty]

So guys (and gals) - I am thinking of getting one of these, opinions and views please


Is the xl any faster than the standard 10? Always liked the robust build. Never liked the fact it was a modified alloy beam boat. Always thought the builders should have just bit the bullet and started with a clean sheet of paper rather than continue on down the cut and shut path. Also not a fan of fractionally rigged slow cruising cats. Just put a big roller furling masthead head-sail on it , reap the benefits and give the blade the flick. Was Scott Jutson responsible for the original design? I suspect it was simply never intended to float as low as it does now after all seawinds alterations, hence time for the transom extension to hide the sins and call it an xl so we can charge more.

[Ozmultis]

Is the xl any faster than the standard 10? I sailed in the moreton bay seawind regatta last year, and whilst the boats are similar, everyone had different sail plans, but allowing for that - yes I would say that the XL appears to be about 1 knot faster. Was Scott Jutson responsible for the original design? He did the 850 as far as I know hence time for the transom extension to hide the sins and call it an xl so we can charge moreThe price for the XL remains the same as it was prior to the xl. No extra charge.

[catty]

I don't think there is much doubt the Jutson designed the 850. With their now obsolete 1200 being derived from Graingers 37? production epoxy jobby that went belly up in the hands of the original builders, they seem to have a history of alterations/improvements? but not necessarily design. I notice at the time Grainger publicly distanced himself from their changes ,from memory.

There is an 850 on a mooring close and a 1000 in another marina not too far away, so out of interest I had a bit of a squizz. Seems to be quite a few similarities so I was wondering how much if any of the 1000 was originally derived from the plugs of the 850 that they had lying around their workshop. Not saying there is anything necessarily wrong with this practice, but I suspect its not the sort of thing seawind would ever own up to.

[TYRNTLZRDKING]

Never liked the fact it was a modified alloy beam boat. Always thought the builders should have just bit the bullet and started with a clean sheet of paper rather than continue on down the cut and shut path.

The Seawind 1000XL is also on my list of possible purchases.
I dont know the entire history of its design, can you explain what you mean by it being a modified alloy beam boat?

[Ozmultis]

Seems to be quite a few similarities so I was wondering how much if any of the 1000 was originally derived from the plugs of the 850 that they had lying around their workshop. Not saying there is anything necessarily wrong with this practice, but I suspect its not the sort of thing seawind would ever own up to.

Why don't you ask Richard Ward? There's an idea - actually ask the question of the factory owner?

[catty]

Why don't you ask Richard Ward? There's an idea - actually ask the question of the factory owner?

That might be like asking Fastcat how much his boat weighs.

[catty]

The Seawind 1000XL is also on my list of possible purchases.
I dont know the entire history of its design, can y ou explain what you mean by it being a modified alloy beam boat?

The 1000 started life like the 850 as an open wing-deck cat with a canvas cover with side entry down steps into the hull. The one that is in the marina nearby has a fiberglass hard top (like the current crop) with permanent covers over the original entrance hatches and the alloy rear beam still there for all to see. I'm not sure whether they had an alloy mast beam but from memory I think you could pull them to bits for transport. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Ozmultis]

That might be like asking Fastcat how much his boat weighs.

Why is Richard the owner of Fastcat or is Gideon the owner of Seawind. Look - I have no problem with people giving Gideon what for, but until a manufacturer demonstrates we cant trust him, I think we should give the manufacturer the courtesy of at least asking the question.

Just ask courteously and see what happens. In any event Catty I welcome your observations and agree with some of the principles, but have you sailed a 1000 or a 1000xl and if so what were your observations. If not - happy to explore some design principles and issues anyway, but I think it is important to know from whence you are coming in terms of the knowledge base of this boat.

[catty]

Found an interview with richard ward/ review on seawind 1000. Basically it appears as I suspected with the hulls being taken from Jutsons 850 and the deck being a classic cut and shut job. And yes it was originally a soft top.
See http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boat-review/2044805.aspx.

[catty]

Sorry , We posted at the same time. Yes I've sailed the 1000 a few times, and in company on a couple of occasions. That's why the comment on the sedate pace.

[Ozmultis]

Found an interview with richard ward/ review on seawind 1000. Basically it appears as I suspected with the hulls being taken from Jutsons 850 and the deck being a classic cut and shut job. And yes it was originally a soft top.
See http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boat-review/2044805.aspx.

It was also originally a diesel powered boat. People wanted less motor and more cover - they changed it - and yes its no sparkling performer but its an honest safe boat with a history of 200 of them without a significant sailing failure. It has merits in some directions for a reliable cruising boat.

[catty]

Oz, as you appear to be contemplating seawind 1000 ownership, did you ever get to measure the loaded wing deck clearance and if all those interior room enhancing lumps and bumps are well clear of the water. I agree , they do appear to be strongly built , so the claims of 7.5 knot cruising averages may be a little high. I would suspect 5.5 over a season would be closer to the mark for a 33 foot boat.

I think the boats success lies in its size. There hasn't ,and probably still isn't any similar sized small production line cat competitors. A pity really, as the 1000 could be improved upon, like any boat.

[TYRNTLZRDKING]

Catty,
I read the your linked article and a dont see were it says the Seawind 1000 used the 850 molds. Yes, Jutson designed the 850 hulls, and then he designed the new 1000 hulls. Cant find anything about them being alloy beam boats.

"These traits have been incorporated in the Seawind 1000, a stylish boat which uses a nifty Scott Jutson-designed hull with Ward's own innovative deck and interior."

OZ, the 850 was designed and built with outboards.
The 1000 was designed to have the choice of outboards or diesels. Only the first three ended up having diesels.

[Ozmultis]

Oz, as you appear to be contemplating seawind 1000 ownership, did you ever get to measure the loaded wing deck clearance and if all those interior room enhancing lumps and bumps are well clear of the water. I agree , they do appear to be strongly built , so the claims of 7.5 knot cruising averages may be a little high. I would suspect 5.5 over a season would be closer to the mark for a 33 foot boat.

I think the boats success lies in its size. There hasn't ,and probably still isn't any similar sized small production line cat competitors. A pity really, as the 1000 could be improved upon, like any boat


Doing that on a boat at Raby Bay this weekend. My experience is the most slapping comes from the outboard pods, very little from the bridge-deck, all things being equal - I would buy a lightwave 45 but I don't have anything like that sort of money. If I didn't have to worry about selling it at the other end then it wouldn't need to be a production boat, but I do have to sell it at some stage in the future and I need to know it will sell for a good price, and they do. There is no doubt there are way better sailing boats, but for what we want to do its a great compromise, (Lord Howe, NZ , FIJI, Tassie, The kimberley etc) we need a boat for the two of us and a boat that is ultra reliable, cause we will take leave without pay to do most of our cruising. I also own a berth in manly (brisvegas) that will fit the seawind, so thats a big attraction as well.

I like pescotts, but have seen the ones on the market - how long they are taking to sell and what price drops they need? Similar with Schionnings, and I should point out that after owning one cat with a single centre outboard, I really don't want to own another one. I would love a 45 -50 foot tri, but I cant park it anywhere. - and there isnt much thats less than 20 years old in a big tri on the market anyway.

So I need a boat thats strong - safe - great sun protection - fits my berth (so less than 11 metres LOA) holds its value and can be sold at fair market value reasonably quickly. It needs to have rock solid insurability and a track record of reliability. It doesnt need to have 27 heads and berths - neither does it need leather fabrics etc. - It doesnt need luxury - we are hostell-ers when we travel overseas, not hotel-ers. Systems must be imple with low energy usage, I dont want to run motors for the sake of energy charging.


The next one is harder to define, it needs to make the beautiful lady "feel safe" cause there aint any point in sailing without her coming along. I am not even sure what that is, but I know she absolutely trusts our current tri (built like a brick S/H) and wasnt so enamoured with our previous 9.5 cat.

The 1000 meets our needs very well, its just 25% slower than I would like, but so far its the best compromise ( for our criteria) I can find in a boat to own for 10 years or so. Having said that - I took an 1160 to Gladstone that was woefully overloaded with dive tanks, beer, dive compressors, rum, beer rum, more water toys etc and we still finished about mid monohull fleet, and three course meals all the way up there, so crusing performance is still on par with an uncomfortable mono, particularly one at 35 feet or less.

As for improving them - they sure could, - go a bit lighter, boards and stuff, but then again the costs would drift out.

I am starting to sound like a salesman here, and I dont mean to - I really would like a Lightwave 45 or a St Francis 50 but that aint gunna happen.

What would you suggest? - I mean that quite sincerely - what I dont want to do in this board is see a string of negative nay saying like there is on Cruisers Forum, I wont play that game, balanced discussions acknowledging things like individual needs and differences is good, having KIWI cockheads (not suggesting you are one) rabbit on about - (use broad KIWI accent here) - OOOH Bro the water here is for men and monos, is of no real assistance. The Seawind will very adequately beat to windward, not fast, but enough to get out of trouble, and I really dont give a toss if someone is faster to windward than me - as long as I can sail away from danger, my attitude is other than that I will avoid beating like the plague. IT isnt fun, and its hard on the gear.

And sailing downwind in a mono is not my idea of fun, I did it once in the old top hat for 4 days on end and got pretty sick of the "death Roll".

So thats my take on it all. Find me a better boat and I will consider it


(Having said all of that I am looking at a 48 foot aluminium cat soon as well. Its a different life style option for us.)

[Ozmultis]

Catty,

OZ, the 850 was designed and built with outboards.
The 1000 was designed to have the choice of outboards or diesels. Only the first three ended up having diesels.

850 was (is ) single outboard - the 1000 was actually designed around the diesels but hull 4 requested outboards, and they have stuck with them ever since (thankfully - the boat is too small for diesels in my view).

[catty]

tyrntlzrdking, Jutson only seemed to ever own up to the 850 hulls. So from the link you refer too......
"These traits have been incorporated in the Seawind 1000, a stylish boat which uses a nifty Scott Jutson-designed hull with Ward's own innovative deck and interior."

Mmmmmm, believe me its very easy to graft 1.5 meters into a cat hull. If you get a chance to check out an 850 yourself you will see what I mean. Better still ask Jutson if he is responsible for the 850 and the 1000 hulls. His website certainly doesn't shout it from the roof tops.

As for alloy beamed. The fore beam is alloy. The aft beam is alloy . I don't know whats concealed under the mast. It may be glass. Nothing wrong with iether material.

Oz, you are dead right, the choices for a production boat of this size and quality is very limited in Australia. For a quick sale at the other end there's no point in buying a custom or semi custom boat.I think you will actually find the mini keels are a highly desirable asset on a cruising cat.

[TYRNTLZRDKING]

850 was (is ) single outboard - the 1000 was actually designed around the diesels but hull 4 requested outboards, and they have stuck with them ever since (thankfully - the boat is too small for diesels in my view).

"OUTBOARD POWER
The new boat was designed to have a choice of either inboard diesels or twin 9.9hp Yamaha four-stroke outboards. Seawind’s experience with the outboard powered Seawind 850 had been excellent, but Richard was concerned that the market wouldn’t accept outboards in a large cruising cat like the SW1000. So, the 1000 went into production and were a hit. Only the first three were built with inboards — single-cylinder Bukh diesels, “a beautiful little motor”, says Richard. Boat No.4 was ordered by a charter company who requested outboard power because of their easy servicing. This turned out a huge success and so that boat, and every subsequent boat, was fitted with two 9.9hp four-stroke extralong shaft Yamahas"

http://www.modernboating.com.au/boat_tests/boat_tests/full/314/Seawind-1000

By the way. I like the boat with the outboards.

[catty]

[QUOTE=tyrntlzrdki

By the way. I like the boat with the outboards.[/QUOTE]



What about "The" outboard mounts/cowlings? MMMMMMMM

[TYRNTLZRDKING]

The cowlings may cause some noise.
I like the TomCat 9.7 design better for the outboard location. No cowling, and in front of the rudders.

[Ozmultis]

Well its about to happen, After much thrashing and wailing we will be doing the final figures and putting in an order for a delivery next july/August. Its not locked and loaded yet but its not far away, and its been interesting to go full circle on a few things in the choice process. I will keep you informed.

[Nordic]

What are they going for at the moment? Probably a really good time to sign on the dotted line, before the Aus dollar goes up again!

Alan

[44C]

Andrew, you've probably seen this site, but just in case: http://www.katiekat.net/

Seems like the SW1000 is more than capable of fulfilling your requirements.

[Ozmultis]

Yeah, thanks, I have seen the site and in fact have sailed the boat and have stayed with Joe and Kathy when in San Francisco. Its an excellent site for all cruisers to review and particularly seawind owners. And they are very nice people.

[ForumAdmin]

44C
Can you add the site to our links library please?:)

[Ozmultis]

Its already there! I put it up a while back.

[ForumAdmin]

ooops ... sorry, its part of my brain washing to try and get members when they mention a link to add it to the Links Libray:):)

[44C]

Well its about to happen, After much thrashing and wailing we will be doing the final figures and putting in an order for a delivery next july/August. Its not locked and loaded yet but its not far away, and its been interesting to go full circle on a few things in the choice process. I will keep you informed.

Congrats. I'm sure she'll meet all expectations.

With any luck (and plenty of work) I hope to be afloat a bit sooner than you.

[Ozmultis]

Well - the order hasnt gone in - I am still keen to go that way but I have been smashed a bit with the shares that were going to pay for it, so some creative accounting is happening to se if we can still afford it. At this rate we could be cruising on a hobie.

[IreAneY]

Hi Andrew,
I hope your creative accounting plans work out for you and you get what looks like to me a very nice cat, so in advance (not tempting fate) congratulations and I look forward to hearing how everything goes.
Don't let a certain person wind you up about your choice, just ignore him, he is probably just jealous as I don't think he actually has a boat.

[Ozmultis]

Well - its done. The order for a new Seawind 1000XL has been placed this morning. Boat to be called "Dilligara". The close came in two parts - one we were able to get the money organised, though that was a little struggle, and two we just spent the weekend aboard a Seawind 1000XL for the Moreton Bay Seawind owners Regatta, and that just confirmed a few small details in our mind.

(For details of regatta and some photos - see

Moreton Bay Regatta (http://www.seawindcats.com/index.pl?page=506)

Delivery at this stage is in Late May next year. Boat may actually be ready a little earlier but we are away in the USA and Canada for most of April and May.

All boats are a compromise, my boat will not be the best boat on the water, but it will be the best compromise that we could come up with. As I get the time I will write some stuff on the build, our choices and similar. Suffice to say at the moment, this will probably be the last boat we ever buy and as such had to be a boat with a solid history of reliability both at sea and in the market place.

[TYRNTLZRDKING]

Andrew,

Congrats on the new boat!
I will look forward to hearing about your choices and options.
I may follow your lead in about one year.

If money was no object would you consider the 1160 over the 1000?

[IreAneY]

Andrew

Congratulations, you lucky bugger, there is now a very jealous Englishman still without a cat but still hoping to get one in the next 6 months.
Keep us informed as to the build progress and what options you are going for.

[Ozmultis]

If money was no object would you consider the 1160 over the 1000? YEP

[TYRNTLZRDKING]

Nice article/review of the Seawind 1000XL from the November issue of
Blue Water Sailing magazine which I had not seen before.

http://www.seawindcats.com/system/files/f11/o601//Seawind%201000.pdf

[Ozmultis]

Good article - thanks for that Jeff.

[Ozmultis]

Dilligara build has started - its hull # 10196, bit of a bugger we weren't number 200, but still - I did think of calling her Number 96 (you have to be 50 year old australian and remember Abagail to know what I mean).

Off to visit her in mid January.

[Ozmultis]

Congrats. I'm sure she'll meet all expectations.

With any luck (and plenty of work) I hope to be afloat a bit sooner than you.

And I am sure you will blast by me - but I will charitably wave and only curse you a little bit.

[Ozmultis]

Visit to factory to follow up on dilligara is Monday - I'll let you know how it goes when I get back from Sydney.

[Ozmultis]

Seawind has a couple of new podcast out for the 1000 and 1160 - A circumnavigation of australia by a 1000, and two parts to a 1160 trip from Australia to USA via hawaii. Search the itunes store for seawind and you will find the free podcasts. Even if you arent interested in the seawinds the podcasts are a good listen for the cruising life perspective.

[Ozmultis]

So A couple of weeks ago had a quick trip to the factory and talked fittings and other accessories and colours etc.

All in all a good experience, delivery was originally late MAy - there was a thought that it might be earlier but they have had a good month with orders so it looks like 11 June now which is fine by me as I am in the USA for most of April and all May. In fact I did ask when I order that if possible delivery should be early June.

Surprisingly for a production boat there have been many choices.

One area is instrumentation and electronics. I have settled on a Raymarine system - I know there are horror stories with all packages but I think this is probably the best fit for me. ST60 tridata, St60 Wind Instrument, ST6002 Autopilot, C80 display with Navionics Chip and a smart pilot wireless remote and an AIS 250 box. I agonised over the last item, not because I wasnt sure about AIS - I am - but the 250 is hideously expensive, but it eventually was worth sticking with the one brand that would be fully supported by the factory through their suppliers.

Second system nav is Garmin handheld (2 in fact) that have many years of waypoints on them and the Crawfords mariners atlases for the east cost and appropriate charts and cruising guides - of course there are two fixed compasses on the boat as well as a hand bearing compass and a lead line and a hand held sea temp thermometer (sea temp is an item I use a fair bit in navigating our coast)

I may go for a laptop based system eventually but at this stage happy with what I have got. Also thinking about going to an iphone as a means of email and weather web data, but still thinking.

No radar - I just dont have the electrickery to sustain it.

ICOM DSC VHF and a GME stereo system, the key thing there was to make sure it was ipod compatible and that it would play MP3 cds.

NO whiz bang tv and dvd player, we will buy a 12 volt one from Harvey Norman (an electrical retailer in Australia) for $300 if we think we need it. (primarily in Rugby League season).

Sounds easy when you look at it like that - but there was a lot of thinking and a lot of exploring the Web - particularly the PANBO web site.

Getting a spare VHF base installed on the targa bar in case of mat loss or - more likely - damage to mast top antenna. It will have a cable run to near the AIS box and the VHF radio. It probably wont have the antenna in place as a matter of course until I see where the boom and any slack reefing lines live etc.

While I am on electrical, almost all lights are LED.

More to follow.

[majika]

So A couple of weeks ago had a quick trip to the factory and talked fittings and other accessories and colours etc.

All in all a good experience, delivery was originally late MAy - there was a thought that it might be earlier but they have had a good month with orders so it looks like 11 June now which is fine by me as I am in the USA for most of April and all May. In fact I did ask when I order that if possible delivery should be early June.

Surprisingly for a production boat there have been many choices.

One area is instrumentation and electronics. I have settled on a Raymarine system - I know there are horror stories with all packages but I think this is probably the best fit for me. ST60 tridata, St60 Wind Instrument, ST6002 Autopilot, C80 display with Navionics Chip and a smart pilot wireless remote and an AIS 250 box. I agonised over the last item, not because I wasnt sure about AIS - I am - but the 250 is hideously expensive, but it eventually was worth sticking with the one brand that would be fully supported by the factory through their suppliers.

Second system nav is Garmin handheld (2 in fact) that have many years of waypoints on them and the Crawfords mariners atlases for the east cost and appropriate charts and cruising guides - of course there are two fixed compasses on the boat as well as a hand bearing compass and a lead line and a hand held sea temp thermometer (sea temp is an item I use a fair bit in navigating our coast)

I may go for a laptop based system eventually but at this stage happy with what I have got. Also thinking about going to an iphone as a means of email and weather web data, but still thinking.

No radar - I just dont have the electrickery to sustain it.

ICOM DSC VHF and a GME stereo system, the key thing there was to make sure it was ipod compatible and that it would play MP3 cds.

NO whiz bang tv and dvd player, we will buy a 12 volt one from Harvey Norman (an electrical retailer in Australia) for $300 if we think we need it. (primarily in Rugby League season).

Sounds easy when you look at it like that - but there was a lot of thinking and a lot of exploring the Web - particularly the PANBO web site.

Getting a spare VHF base installed on the targa bar in case of mat loss or - more likely - damage to mast top antenna. It will have a cable run to near the AIS box and the VHF radio. It probably wont have the antenna in place as a matter of course until I see where the boom and any slack reefing lines live etc.

While I am on electrical, almost all lights are LED.

More to follow.

if you plan to add a laptop later get the E80 then you can run it as a second station and both can read the same chart at the same time.

[Ozmultis]

Bugger - just when I thought I had it all sorted! - Thanks Majika

[TYRNTLZRDKING]

I bought an OLPC XO laptop off Ebay and installed Seaclear navigation software for GPS.
Its cheap, water resistent, screen can be viewed in sun, and uses very little power.
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f13/the-xo-computer-for-navigation-12255.html
Check it out.

Thanks for the update on you boat. Keep the info coming.

http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/224/xogpsib1.jpg

[IreAneY]

Andrew

Any news on the imminent arrival of your new baby, any new pictures or news, would be great to hear. :)

[Ozmultis]

Ian

Yep - the good ship Dilligarra is half way down the production line - still on target for a splashdown in June sometime, and delivery up to Brisbane a few weeks later depending on the weather. I may or may not do the delivery trip, I will have only just returned from a couple of months leave, so getting the time off may be a struggle. We will see.

No piccies yet of the actual boat - I may get down and visit the factory in the week after easter and if so will take a few then.

Final really important decisions have been made (fabric colours - spinnaker design etc :D) so I think there is no more decision making to take, and of course every decision now will usually cost money to make happen.

First long trip for the boat will be the delivery (Sydney to Bris) and the first longish cruise for us (as distinct from round the bay etc) will probably be a two week sojourn to Lady Musgrave and back in August/September. (again Depending on getting leave)

[Ozmultis]

ITS HERE. Dilligara was launched right on schedule on 3 June and then left wollongong on the Friday afternoon and got sailed up to Brisbane - I could only do the last 6 hours of the trip and it was a straight motor as the delivery crew had a plane to catch.

So in the last few days have organised registration etc. Then spent the weekend organising the stuff on the boat - from safety gear to knives and forks etc. Also spent time reading the 8000 manuals that came with every piece of gear. Still none the wiser.

I am so happy!

Can I also say that the factory was wonderful, as we arrived in Brisbane they had a detailer organised to clean the boat up fully as that was when the hand over t me was. Boat was in wonderful presentation. And the factory have cheerfully put up with my 27 stupid questions so far.

I will make more comment as I start to use each of the features. Already though I am impressed with the electrical. The fridge/Freezer have been running non stop since the boat was launched, and the solar panels have been more than keeping up with that draw, along with the other minor items like interior lights when I have been on the boat into the evening. And its mid winter here, so a few hours less sunlight!

NO photos yet either sorry, but the images etc on the seawind site at seawindcats.com are almost identical.

[ForumAdmin]

Great news Andrew... I wish you safe and enjoyable sailing!!:)

[imagine2frolic]

BEST WISHES in Dilligara keeping you smiling, and keeping you safe.......i2f

[IreAneY]

Andrew, Congratulations, I hope one day to experience what you are going through at the moment, it must be very uplifting and satisfying.
I wish you loads of safe/great enjoyable sailing and cruising.:)
Looking forward to seeing lots of pics.:)
By the way have you banned any spammers recently :D

[jkd]

Ahh, nothing like that 'new boat smell' to make a man feel like a kid on Christmas!:D
Congrats and good sailing.

John

[therapy]

Congratulations and all that.........

[44C]

Congratualtions from me too. You must be over the moon. I'd suggest a shakedown cruise to Hervey bay to do some whale watching...

[Nordic]

Great to hear the good news Andrew.

Looking forward to lots of pictures and how she sails once you've got all the kit onboard.

Best wishes for safe and fast cruising in a wonderful part of the world.

Alan

[GlennC]

Great news Andrew. Has it stopped training in bRisbane yet!!! All teh best to you and Sonia. I look forwrad to reading about your adventures,

Cheers

Glenn

[IreAneY]

Andrew

We are still waiting for some pictures and a report on the new toy, it would be nice to see and hear when you have time. :)

[Ozmultis]

Its great. Not perfect - but great. WE have spent a little time personalising and preparing it - e.g. putting all the safety gear and crockery and cutlery etc on, spent a lot of time fiddling with systems and instruments to learn how they work, spent a lot of time reading. And a little bit of time sailing - (The boat arrived after I had had two months leave - so work has interfered with my sailing)

I am amazed how well it tacks, at 3 knots boat speed in about 6 knots of wind, push the buttons on the autopilot and around she goes, self tacking jib means nothing is touched, didnt even look like going into irons. Tacks better than the centreboard tri I had - and that is saying something.

Here are a couple of photos - I promise to actually start testing it out and reporting on bits and pieces - and giving more and better photos.

[swigger]

Andrew, I'd be interested in any areas to look out for in terms of "not perfect"? Dilligara looks very nice and I'm sure will be a joy!

[Wayward Wind]

Andrew

Congrats! What does Dilligarra mean?

JohnC

[Ozmultis]

see attached story that was written for Multihulls World should answer some of the questions. Like I say in the article - you will have to work out what the name means.

Whats not perfect? Well its a little heavy for its length, lighter would be nicer. The fuel tank filling process is akin to torture. The main bed could be a little wider.

[Ozmultis]

Also - couple of photos from yesterday's sail - very very light winds - hence the sails all look a bit baggy.

[TYRNTLZRDKING]

see attached story that was written for Multihulls World should answer some of the questions. Like I say in the article - you will have to work out what the name means.

Whats not perfect? Well its a little heavy for its length, lighter would be nicer. The fuel tank filling process is akin to torture. The main bed could be a little wider.

Andrew,
I enjoyed the article. Boat looks and sounds great.
Will look forward to hearing more of your opinions on features and options. More photos would be great.
Would like to see the different canopy systems set up.
Could the fuel tank filling problem be solved with some kind of extension hose leading out the side of the boat?

Does It Look Like I Give A Rats Ass?

[Ozmultis]

Andrew,
I enjoyed the article.

Thanks - I enjoy writing

Will look forward to hearing more of your opinions on features and options.
Getting there slowly - want to really form some conclusions before I say too much

More photos would be great.

Some are coming
Would like to see the different canopy systems set up.

I will dig the cruising canopy out and take some photos

Could the fuel tank filling problem be solved with some kind of extension hose leading out the side of the boat? Dont think thats an option. I have taken to putting it in by the 10 litre jerry can at a time, and I usally take a few weeks to use 10 litres so its no big deal.

Does It Look Like I Give A Rats Ass? - That would be correct or in the Australian version - Does it look like I give a rats arse

[Wayward Wind]

Does It Look Like I Give A Rats Ass?[/quote]

Clever . . . and all the while I thought it was an Aboriginal word, like Kirribilli which means "fishing spot."

Great write-up on the 1000XL. It was on my short list as well.

JohnC

[therapy]

Great article.

It was way up on my list too but I cannot sleep on the too-small berth.

The 1160 was one of the last in the cuts but alass there is just not the money.

[victor]

see attached story that was written for Multihulls World should answer some of the questions. Like I say in the article - you will have to work out what the name means.

Whats not perfect? Well its a little heavy for its length, lighter would be nicer. The fuel tank filling process is akin to torture. The main bed could be a little wider.
Oz; since my SeaWind is at a private dock I seldom fuel at a fuel dock.
The way I fill from a jerry can is with a siphon with a little fitting that holds a marble. I simply place the jerry can on the seat (sans cushion) in the cockpit open the cap on the fuel tank, place the fitted end of the siphon in the jerry can the other end in the fuel tank, jiggle the hose at the jerry can side a voilà the fuel runs with no mess or gas in my mouth.

[Ozmultis]

In response to some questions there are some photos:

[Ozmultis]

And some more

[Midge]

Andrew

Thanks for your informative posts on the 1000XL. I have placed a deposit for one with expected delivery Sept 2010. Interested in discussing further with you.

Midge

[artemidorus]

yes I would say that the XL appears to be about 1 knot faster..
I've come to this discussion quite late, but I'll add a few points.

The XL is not faster than the 1000 standard in light breezes provided the crew of the older boat take pains to send crew forrard to keep the transoms out of the water. In heavier breezes, the longer boat has a higher hull speed, but I don't think that there's ever a whole knot in it.


Cant find anything about them being alloy beam boats.

They are indeed alloy beam boats, with one at the bow, one at the stern, and a hidden one under the mast base.

What about "The" outboard mounts/cowlings? MMMMMMMM
There's no problem with the outboard mounts in terms of durability. The outboard pods slap a little, but even with our boat's old, flat-bottomed pods, it's not really even something that I notice.


If money was no object would you consider the 1160 over the 1000?
The 1160 is no faster than the 1000. For that kind of money, having a Farrier 41 built should be considered (and I say that as a Seawind sailor).

I have settled on a Raymarine system - I know there are horror stories with all packages
Our 12-year-old Raymarine wind instrument has functioned seamlessly. Our Raymarine tridata and sounder failed at about 6 years, and the replacements have not needed repair. Our ST4000+ control head has burned out its field transistors three times (at 3-4 year intervals), but has been reparable for <$200 each time. Our wheel drive has only just broken some rollers and will need replacement with the new Mk II.

Watch the outboards and their very poorly regulated alternators - full batteries can easily shoot to 16-17 V with both engines on full throttle and no significant loads switched on. I usually put the nav lights on whenever the engines are on, and often put the steaming light on as well, remembering that AGM batteries really must never go over ~14.4V, except for occasional equalisations.

[Ozmultis]

The XL is not faster than the 1000 standard in light breezes provided the crew of the older boat take pains to send crew forrard to keep the transoms out of the water. In heavier breezes, the longer boat has a higher hull speed, but I don't think that there's ever a whole knot in it.

Indeed - I should have more accurate - my xl tends to be a bit better than most 1000s due in part to the bigger sail area and in part to the length. The few times I have been in direct competition with a 1000 we seem to pull around a know, but those boats are older and have smaller sail area.

[ka8uet]

Well, now I have to add Seawind to my list. Will be checking their web site. Thanks for the info, guys!

[artemidorus]

Indeed - I should have more accurate - my xl tends to be a bit better than most 1000s due in part to the bigger sail area and in part to the length. The few times I have been in direct competition with a 1000 we seem to pull around a know, but those boats are older and have smaller sail area.
Most of the Sydney (Port Jackson) 1000s are in charter and are, almost routinely, sailed abominably badly. Even allowing for their smaller sails, they seem to have the mains'l sheeted to the midline on all points of sail, seem routinely to have at least 15 people on board, and tend to appear to be "parked" except when under power. They are not a good advertisement for the boat. It's actually quite hard to find a well-sailed 1000 or XL for a performance yardstick in our parts, except when we go to the Pittwater regatta.

[Ozmultis]

except when we go to the Pittwater regatta.

See you there this weekend then!

[artemidorus]

See you there this weekend then!
When did you come down?

[Ozmultis]

Flying down - not sailing

[Ray]

Nice to surf onto a Seawind 1000XL site.

I have recently placed an order for a 1000XL with much the same equipment as that you have described Andrew and now wait delivery (supposed to launch January 21) We will use it mainly on Lake Macquarie (where we have just built a new house and new jetty) with the intention to do quite a bit of coastal cruising in due course.

Any tips of any kind will be appreciated.

Ray

[artemidorus]

Flying down - not sailing
How did you find the regatta - did you race?

[Ozmultis]

It was great. And yes I was on the 1250 for the morning race. And I think this is a photo of your boat?

[artemidorus]

It was great. And yes I was on the 1250 for the morning race. And I think this is a photo of your boat?
Yes, that's us jumping over the top of Vivacious. Thanks for the photo.

[Ozmultis]

It's actually quite hard to find a well-sailed 1000 or XL for a performance yardstick in our parts, except when we go to the Pittwater regatta.

And even with the Regatta - there are still differences in sails etc, but for what its worth:

The fastest Xl was quicker than the fastest 1000 by 11% over both races. In fact 5 of the six XLs were quicker than all the 1000s. There are caveats of course, by definition all the XLs are younger boats than all the 1000s, so most likely to have better sails rigging etc. - You guys missed out on being the fastest overall 1000 by 13 seconds!!

There isnt a whole lot in it I would guess, but overall it looks like a well sailed stock 1000xl is probably about the same speed as a well sailed stock 1160, maybe a tiny bit quicker.

It also looks like the 1250 is might be quicker than the 1160 by about 5% - a bit more?

[artemidorus]

The fastest Xl was quicker than the fastest 1000 by 11% over both races. In fact 5 of the six XLs were quicker than all the 1000s. There are caveats of course, by definition all the XLs are younger boats than all the 1000s, so most likely to have better sails rigging etc. - You guys missed out on being the fastest overall 1000 by 13 seconds!!

There isnt a whole lot in it I would guess, but overall it looks like a well sailed stock 1000xl is probably about the same speed as a well sailed stock 1160, maybe a tiny bit quicker.

It also looks like the 1250 is might be quicker than the 1160 by about 5% - a bit more?
A comparison between the XLs and the standards is complicated. For example, I believe that only two of the standards race regularly, and of these, only one has large, new sails. I believe that many if not most of the XLs race regularly, and they all have nice sail sets. One of the most competitive XLs always has a local semi-professional multihull racing skipper brought on board for this regatta. This XL also has hard-polished racing anti-fouling (!!). Pittwater is a venue on which local knowledge and racing smarts count for a lot.

Even forgetting these differences, the leading XL was 7% faster than the leading standard in the first race. The leading standard was disqualified in the second race (I'm not sure why), so we'll have to make the comparison with the second fastest standard, over which the leading XL enjoyed an 11% speed advantage. This is about what I would have expected, as the second race was windier than the first.

The age of the hulls and rigging don't make much difference - it's really the standard of the hull finish and the sails that matter.

I am even more unconvinced than previously of the speed advantage of the 1160 over the 1000 standard - only one 1160 was substantially faster than the 1000 standard fleet. There is a great advantage in being out on your own in front of your starting fleet, and the skipper of the best scratch 1160 is a very good sailor.

I think that the XL is the fastest current Seawind model, with the possible exception of the 1250. The XL has about the same waterline length as the 1160, and enjoys a better sail area to weight ratio, and a better LWL to hull beam ratio.

My vanity urges me to point out that we didn't miss out on being the fastest standard 1000 - we were the overall fastest standard that wasn't disqualified, and the fastest in the first race ;).

[Bubba]

Sounds like you like your 1000 a lot. We are looking at one and can't make our minds up on a std 1000 or the added sugar scoops on a 1000 to make it an XL or is that all the difference there is?

[Ray]

You have come to the right place to learn of the Seawind 1000 and 1000xl as there are some very knowledgeable owners drop in now and then. The 1000 is now obsolete having been replaced with the 1000XL which i found upon investigation to be the the boat which best suits my needs. The XL simply means Xtra Length (guess Seawind designers don't spell so well)

[Bubba]

Hi Ray, Phil here. My wife Elaine and I really like the 1000 or 1000XL. The 1000XL is longer but I here there is added sail area too ???

We would need to do some modfications to make a 1000XL liveable for the cold Pacific NW weather. I have seen a glassed in salon doorway on a Seawind 1000 Ala Ka'i with glass doors and windows instead of the tent enclosure. We fit better in the King size bed with a 360 view in the salon than the head banging burths in the hulls. We would also need to add a furnice to heat each hull simular to what we have on our monohull now.

Thanks for answering my post I am sure we will have many questions.

A little about us: Elaine my wife is 54 and has been sailing with her racing family sence diapers and loves riging sailboats for better performance. I am 60 and have been sailing something sence 1962 and bought my first Hobie 16 in 1972 just after college. We now sail over 100 days and nights a year. I own an apt complex 3 blks from the Columbia river where today it is 25 F and with ice and some snow.

[artemidorus]

We are looking at one and can't make our minds up on a std 1000 or the added sugar scoops on a 1000 to make it an XL or is that all the difference there is?
The only substantial difference between the standard and the XL is the added length aft. The hull shapes are otherwise identical. Extensions can be added to a standard 1000 without too much fuss (Seawind USA have the moulds for these), but the factory XL transoms look more elegant.

[artemidorus]

The 1000XL is longer but I here there is added sail area too ???

The mast on the XL has the same height as the standard, and the boom is the same length. The final lot of standards and all the XLs have the boom gooseneck 6" lower on the mast, but this is an easy modification for any boat (we have dropped our boom 6").
The short answer is that the same range of sails fits either boat.

[Bubba]

Thanks that is good to know about the sails and the added XL extensions. We like the light colored oak interior and I think that change happened in about 2000 ?

[Bubba]

Where would we look for the different size of sails and other options for the 1000 or XL ??? Were looking for any add on's and modifications for Seawind 1000's to look at on line?

[Sandy Daugherty]

Catty is boatless because NOTHING meets his standards::)

[smj]

Thanks that is good to know about the sails and the added XL extensions. We like the light colored oak interior and I think that change happened in about 2000 ?

Our Seawind is a 1996 model and has the light oak. We saw another 96 with the cherry so don't know when it became an option.

[Bubba]

We are looking at purchasing a 1000xl or 1000XL this year. My wife got really hooked when we test sailed a 1000 in 2003 in a 17 mph breeze and we were sailing at 15 mph and now the used boats are the same base price as they were in 2003 without the added options.

[Bubba]

My wife the skipper wants to know if the 1000XL has 3 bulkheads in each hull and will they get us to land if one of the bulkheads gets fludded. We want to enclose the salon with glass doors for the Pacific NW so, Is there a way to move the fuel filling cap and fuel vent outside the salon ?

[therapy]

We want to enclose the salon with glass doors for the Pacific NW so, Is there a way to move the fuel filling cap and fuel vent outside the salon ?

Those are inside the salon????????:eek:

[Bubba]

That is what I have been told by a buddy who's uncle ownes a 1000XL

[therapy]

That is what I have been told by a buddy who's uncle ownes a 1000XL

I thought the 1000 had gas outboards.

No way they would do that.

[Ozmultis]

My wife the skipper wants to know if the 1000XL has 3 bulkheads in each hull and will they get us to land if one of the bulkheads gets fludded. We want to enclose the salon with glass doors for the Pacific NW so, Is there a way to move the fuel filling cap and fuel vent outside the salon ?

Yes - but only at the time of initial build. I doesn't matter though they are blow floor level in a nacelle that vents to the ocean and are covered by a couple of "doors" - in short they are outside the living space. You really don't nee to enclose the cockpit, like I said - see Katie Kat's web site re their trip to alaska. Katie Kat moved the tanks at the build time, for the reason you indicate and then found that they really didnt have to enclose the saloon with hard doors to stay warm. Realistically if you want the fully enclosed thing, I would suggest the 1160 or similar boat - eg Lightwave 38.

Those are inside the salon????????:eek:
I thought the 1000 had gas outboards.
No way they would do that.

By Gas - if you mean petrol -yes they have 4 stroke yamaha outboards, fuel tanks are under the floor of the saloon and vent to outside just like the motors them selves.

Its a great system, worked for years and 220 boats, remember the saloon has no direct connection to the hulls.

[Bubba]

I am sure the folks that crused to Alaskia from Australia didn't stay thru the winter months, they left there boat in Vancouver BC for the winter and I don't think they stayed on the boat for the winter even south in Vancouver. We find ourselves wanting only to use salon dinett for our only bed or waite for an 1160 to be under $200,000.00 but that may take too long and then redo the salon to have a salon bed as big as the 1000. Last year Seattle got a total of 24 inches of snow down by the docks at sea level and several nights and days of single didgets F temps where the fresh water on top of the salt water freezes around the boats in dock. I cant see how a tent wall can hold that mutch heat difference and us stay warm in 40 mph breezes and 15 to 30 deg's F for months without using too mutch diesal for heat off grid.

[harlie]

Its a great system, worked for years and 220 boats, remember the saloon has no direct connection to the hulls.

Sorry but I do not agree - the fuel filling arrangement under the main table is what I would describe as “unfinished”. If you have a filler cap leak or spill, the fuel smell consumes the saloon and hulls - yes theoretically they are below floor level but the pod drains are far too small to ensure vapours dissipate under the tunnel. After the boat was delivered I enquired about an internal gas (LPG) detection device and they admitted that it will trip during refueling (wish I knew that earlier). There is no way to relocate the fillers (I’ve spent many times trying to find a solution) with out major ugly surgery. I’m tempted to follow Katie Cat’s lead and have tanks made for the fwd lockers.

Standard fuel capacity is also poor. I had to empty one for removal just before Christmas and was surprised to only fit 51Litres from dead empty in it!! At 2.7L/hr that’s not much range.

[Ozmultis]

I am getting about .87 litres per hour per motor? so using one motor gives me over 100 hours at about 5 to 5.5 knots. Not too bad. I have 2 spare 10 litre containers on board.

I tend to use only one motor if I am going any distance - and I find that one motor will give an apparent breeze sufficient to get some drive out of the sails.

Round the bay its two motors and go for it (7.5 knots) , but the range isnt an issue there.

Having said that they are a pain to fill, but I just use 20 litre jerrys and a siphon and let it happen slowly.

[harlie]

I am getting about .87 litres per hour per motor? so using one motor gives me over 100 hours at about 5 to 5.5 knots. Not too bad. I have 2 spare 10 litre containers on board.

I tend to use only one motor if I am going any distance - and I find that one motor will give an apparent breeze sufficient to get some drive out of the sails.

Round the bay its two motors and go for it (7.5 knots) , but the range isnt an issue there.

Having said that they are a pain to fill, but I just use 20 litre jerrys and a siphon and let it happen slowly.

Come on!!! .87L/hr; Honestly you do you think you are kidding? Now I don't like to have a go at someone in a forum such as this; but to quote such an absurd figure especially as a Rep, is downright irresponsible. You are encouraging skippers they can easily cover 500nm from the standard fuel supply???

(Seawind's delivery skipper) Royce Black has also produced figures showing that the petrol 9.9s on the 1000 use more fuel per hour than the diesel Yanmar 30s in the 1160 & 1250 and his figures for the Yanmars are approx 2.5L/hr per engine at cruise rpm. This is mainly be attributed to the fact that the 9.9s are working very hard to maintain a reasonable speed, while those lovely diesels are just loping along. The 9.9s are also over-propped but there is no smaller (pitch) propeller available - anyone with experience in the power boat world will know that a small engine working hard with an incorrect propeller is not going to be as efficient as it could be.

0.87L/hr is what I would expect from a small generator, actually it's close to what my small Honda gen uses under load....

I have not measured fuel usage around Moreton bay, because of short periods of running, in - out marina, anchorage, you simply don't get an accurate account of what is being used / per hour metered. However - I have kept detailed records of both trips to the Whitsundays and both trips showed the Yamaha 9.9 HT used 2.7L/hr (each) while working (5kns on one; not idle around a marina or anchorage) ie, motor from Brisbane to Urangan with absolute glass conditions (May 2008) consumed a little under 90L (topped up from Jerry at Double Is). This winter I will have figures for the engines with more suitable propellers if I get around to having them repitched; which will enable the engines to operate within their designed range.

When I travel north I carry an extra 5*20L Jerry Cans and from my open water figures that will just safely (with safe reserve) cover the 350nm journey from Brisbane to Rosslyn Bay via Lady Musgrave (Travelling outside Fraser Is) - I've often struck periods of two weeks with no wind at all in the winter months.

I too run on one engine because range is greatly increased (and the noise of 2 drives me insane). One engine gives our 1000 5.3kns for 2.7L/hr, both give 7.2kns at 5.4L/hr - do the sums. Also Check the owners' manual supplied by Yamaha for the 9.9 for fuel usage.

[steve sharp]

Getting 2 NM from a litre of petrol while running at more than 5 knots is not too shabby. Diesel is more efficient but you pay for that efficiency in dollars and in weight.

I expect you will get higher speeds (half a knot, perhaps) when you re-pitch your props but I will be surprised if you get better mileage. Please let us know how it all works out.

Steve

[Bubba]

If the fuel tanks were moved to the bow wouldn't it make the boat bow heavy to some extent ? So do the bow tanks replace the bow crash flotation area ?

[harlie]

If the fuel tanks were moved to the bow wouldn't it make the boat bow heavy to some extent ? So do the bow tanks replace the bow crash flotation area ?

Katie Kat has the fuel tanks in the storage locker at the base of Mast (under the center beam) I would think moving that weight forward by that distance (110kg - 1.2 meter) would actually improve things. I have the 1000 (not XL) and it drags it bum, if we have say 5 adults on board and 4 go sit up front I can see a slight increase in speed. Down side is the weight is being moved higher by about 30-40cm but I'm not sure that would be noticed.

For me it would be about getting the fillers out of the saloon, and maybe getting some extra capacity. I do love my off-shore Island hoping, and I also like to carry enough fuel to motor all the way if needed - unfortunately I have to get back to work and can't hang around a couple of weeks waiting for a breeze.

[Bubba]

Sounds like a plan. I agree the fuel tanks need to be out of the salon with an outside fill port.

[harlie]

Getting 2 NM from a litre of petrol while running at more than 5 knots is not too shabby. Diesel is more efficient but you pay for that efficiency in dollars and in weight.



I agree- for a petrol powered 5t boat, I'm not complaining about the mileage - IMO range is what lets it down. Let me add that when we go island hoping we are heavy - Kids with all their junk, extra 100kg fuel, extra 200kg water, extra fridge, tonnes of food, some times even extra free loaders. It's a very heavy 10m cat.


Admittedly Andrew has the smaller Yamahas which I may expect a slight fuel improvement but they will be working even harder. The speed figures he provided show me that. XL – 7.5kns; 1000 - 7.2kns. I’m pretty sure the early XLs with the same engines as mine max out at 8…

The other major advantage of Diesels that never seems to rate a mention is electricity charging capacity – that’s a big plus for mind. Personally I’ll never own another yacht with outboards, IMO the advantages are worth the $. Electricity, Hot water (that doesn’t drink LPG), grunt (would be nice to have the ability to run through the still night at 8-9kns to cover the distance), and importantly NOISE.

[harlie]

I will add to my post above that I’m now really put off by outboards powering heavy craft. I’ve owned a few in my time but this experience has been poor. My Yamahas have now broken down 4 times (2 each). Port Side – Starter motor then CDI box. Stb side - Stator (charge coil) then CDI box. All separate times. The boat was launched with new outboards in 2007 and admittedly has done a lot of work, but 100 hr servicing has always been completed. And let me confirm that the Factory Warranty is not worth the paper its written on, multiple dealers up the coast gave me the same story “any work has to be pre approved by Yamaha Aus, that will take 3-6 weeks”. That’s helpful when I’m 600nm for home! And once we paid for it (with the thought of claiming back) – game over, account closed. Quote “You’ve paid for it, what’s the problem”.

This is a big difference to what I’ve experienced with Honda Aus. The 30 Honda on my fishing tinnie was completely sand blasted and resprayed because of a corrosion bubble under the paint. And it was over 1 year out of warranty – no questions. I will add the Honda dealer in Brisbane’s bayside was NOT the reason for this good service… anyway bit off topic…

I’m a BIG fan of the mechanically injected Diesel… I will one day (hopefully soon) upgrade to an 1160. I love the Seawind design and the 1160 is a massive step up, and as far as factory support and backing, Seawind have been nothing short of superb.

[Ozmultis]

Come on!!! .87L/hr; Honestly you do you think you are kidding? Now I don't like to have a go at someone in a forum such as this; but to quote such an absurd figure especially as a Rep, is downright irresponsible. You are encouraging skippers they can easily cover 500nm from the standard fuel supply??? And from a Seawind agent, I know you have the marketing and sales hat on but - wow.

No - I have my owners hat on. I see you are in manly - want to come and look at my log book? I also note that my good friend Joe siudzinski (katie kat) gets about a 1.2 litre per hour on each motor, - he is actually staying with us at the moment so I will ask him to verify. - this an extract from his web site:

Economy - my six-year average, presently at around 1800 hours/engine, is 1.2 litres/hour at an average speed of around 4.5 knots. Remember, I normally only use one engine when motoring.


You might want to pull your head in and stop accusing me of lying, there's a good chap. Okay -

The 9.9s are also over-propped but there is no smaller (pitch) propeller available - Try talking to the fine people at Solas.


[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I have not measured fuel usage around Moreton bay, because of short periods of running, in - out marina, anchorage,

There you go - I have kept records of every litre since the boat was launched.

Of course there are factors that may affect your milage (as our american friends would say), how dirty the bottom is, how hard you drive them, whether you have a standard 1000 or XL. How heavily loaded the boat is, how well the motor has been serviced, what quality of fuel you use (I use the Vortex 98 and similar - the extra cost is miniscule for the work we do.) and probably the big one - which motors - Mine are the later small 9.9s (GEX) which appear to be quieter and more fuel efficient than the earlier ones, though I suspect with their smaller capacity they may be a little less torquey and a little less in the longevity stakes.

you simply don't get an accurate account of what is being used / per hour metered. However - I have kept detailed records of both trips to the Whitsundays and both trips showed the Yamaha 9.9 HT used 2.7L/hr (each)

That's fairly heavy - On my tri with a 15hp 2 stroke I used about 2 (in fact slightly less) litres per hour from Port Macquarie to Brisbane. I had no idea of the consumption and remember thinking that I should fill the 25 litre tank froma jerry before dark and then I would probably only have to fill it once during the night, it was still buzzing away 13 hours later. Your milage is worse than twice as much as Joe has seen over the life of the boat. I really think there is an issue in your system somewhere.

I really dont want to have a fight with you -

BUT I am not lying and I would appreciate an apology - it would be nice to know who is calling me a liar as well.

I dont disagree with you that the diesels have many advantages, but you wont get 8-9 knots through the still night on a 38 foot cat with 30 hp a side, even with overdrive props etc.

[victor]

Well' I just need to put my beak into this fuel tank location and fuel capacity discussion.
First let me state a few facts as I have seen them over nearly 15 years of constant use of my SeaWind XL ex 1000.
Never did I experience any fuel fumes emanating from the tanks.
The location is a bit cumbersome but certainly not a problem at all.
Fuel filling is directly into the tank and is probably a good design.
Fuel capacity is only a problem if you are out of range of a fuel dock.
My fuel usage is 1.1 gals/hr both engines at 3500-3800 rpm.
If on board fuel is not going to be adequate for the distance I may need to use the engines, I carry extra. Lets be mindful that depending on your distance to your destination and the amount of patients you may never have enough fuel on board.
However if you think you need to modify the tank-age for fuel look to the water tank. I know of at least one SeaWind 1000 the was factory modified to carry half the water and the other half of the tank to carry fuel. The pod was used for storage. I think this was a good modification, you can make water but not fuel.

[Ozmultis]

Victor - thats 1.1 gallons per hour - Us Gallons? or Imperial?

for both motors - so about 2 litres per hour for each? CAn you confirm the figures?

Also can you confirm which motors you have

[victor]

Andrew, US gallons, at the time I did my last long distance cruise I had two of the Aus. 9.9 with the 15 hp carb. Now I'm using one Aus and one NEW US version. By the By the new one is a much quieter engine.
PS check out www.keywestrace.org (http://www.keywestrace.org) for race results.

[victor]

Andrew; in addition ember that I'm pushing in most cases 3800 to 4000 RPM with both engines.

[Ozmultis]

Thanks Victor - So you were using about 2 litres per hour per motor (given that 1 US gallon is 3.7 litres - so your 1.1 gallons per hour equals 4.07 litres per hour ) when you had the older bigger capacity 9.9s?

When you say the "new US 9.9" is suspect that's the same as my motor which is 212 cc cubic capacity and marked as a GEX motor. Have you noticed any change on its consumption compared to the previous larger capacity motors? Did you notice any change when you extended the boat?

I agree that the new motor is much quieter - and it appears much more fuel efficient. I wonder whether it will have the same long life as most of the older styles seem to demonstrate.

Also I dont have tachos on my motors - but I tend to run at about half throttle (based on noise and throttle position) if I am not in a hurry, so maybe I dont push my motors as hard as some other folk.

[harlie]

Hi Andrew,

I’m not interested in a flinging match, or personal attacks for that matter, I still can’t see 100hrs at 5-5.5kns (500-550nm) on the standard fuel supply from your reply. 100hrs at 3.5-4kns yes, but that is not what you’re claiming. 5.5kns for 100hrs - thats an engine going hard.

I am getting about .87 litres per hour per motor? So using one motor gives me over 100 hours at about 5 to 5.5 knots. Not too bad.

Yes yourself and Joe are exactly right; fuel usage is very dependent on how it is driven, like any engine. 2.7l/hr is driven hard (with the older 350cc engine) – that’s what it has to do to give over 5kns with no wind. Unfortunately I’m not retired and time is an issue. The boat is lifted for fresh antifoul with in the month prior to heading north. Engines are dealer serviced – and repaired.

Motor sailing in light breeze with half or third throttle gives a very different result. If these instances were included in my figures, I’m sure the average number would be more like Joe’s. I’m quoting motoring only on particular journeys at particular times of year - where I have to be mind full of fuel. You have also quoted 5-5.5 kns on one engine – is that at half throttle? That would explain the excellent burn rate. A 4 stroke outboard is most efficient at approx 4000rpm…

I really don’t care what the consumption is around the Bay or average for the life of the boat (thou would be interesting) – It’s long trips that range is an issue, that’s what I need to know, to ensure I have fuel to suit. I need to know what I’m using for a leg in a condition. Which is what I record. No point running out of fuel at Fitzroy reef and wondering why my 1.4 (or whatever average) I’ve used for calculations didn’t add up. I calculate for worst case.

Props; As at our conversation approx 12 months ago, Steve at Solas Propellers (which I’ve purchased many props from before) had no option for the 12inch dia high ratio 9.9 Yamaha. He stated, at that time the only option is Genuine. The engines currently have the smallest pitch available from Yamaha Aus. Just called him again and no he doesn’t. Re-bush only.

I get a fuel smell when the tanks are full, don’t fill them up and it’s OK, however since I can only get 51L in a tank and I plan to do the 350nm trip again this Winter the tanks will be full. I’ve tried a new cap, reseated the union connectors ect, I know I’m missing something and just can’t quite pin it down.

I’ll leave this now and keep my opinion to my self from now on… Qs only

[harlie]

For the record I apologise to Andrew for my Sales & Marketing comment. I have great respect for the Seawind name and their reps. I’m sure that he is not making false claims for the purpose of marketing and this was a clear misunderstanding of Average usage Vs short constant (trip) usage.


I hope readers can make their own minds up about the differences, meanings and calculations.


bye

[Ozmultis]

That would be unfortunate Harlie - your opinions - like everyone else's here - are valid and welcomed. I just know what I use, and I know what Joe uses. We know what victor uses, and we know what you use. There is at least one big variable, the motor type - as in the older bigger capacity or the newer smaller capacity.

I think as well that I am probably at the best end of the margin, motors are new, boat is still light, I wont motor if if can sail and if I motor - then I usually motor sail, and I have a very big main that may help there as well.

Joe is up around Bundy for a few days, but will return by the weekend, I will ask him then what consumption he "uses" when planning passages etc. That may be different to his life time average. I will ask around the other owners and see if they have any different experiences.

I think you are dead right - the range is the big issue. The better the range the easier life is. I havent refuelled since our new years run to Molloolaba and we sailed most of the way up but had to motor a fair bit of the way back, so when I get round to it later this week, that may give us a better picture. ( we left full of fuel and probably motored 10 hours on that trip and have done at least another 10 hours since - the logs are on the boat - using both motors so that level of usage should give another good snapshot)

All I can do is keep using the boat and recording the data.

I would still love to know which boat your are on. Would welcome the opportunity for a friendly chat one day.

And for the record - I encourage anyone who may be interested in a seawind to talk to as many owners as possible about motors - about everything - and get as wide a view as is possible. I will certainly report any change I experience, and I will particularly be interested in the fuel usage for our Gladstone trip at easter - that might give a more realistic picture with the boat loaded for cruising and some "push" to attain anchorages etc. Certainly I will post here the outcome.

And your experience is very interesting to me, I was intending to use a plan of about 1.5 litres per hour per motor for the Gladstone trip. and look at 6 knots running both. so that 6 knots at 3 litres per hour. That's a lot more than I use at the moment but I thought that may be reasonable safe planning, but that's less than you use on these trips. In short I was thinking of relying on 200 nm with the standard tanks and carrying 2 by 20 litre jerrys. Based on your experience that may not be enough. I will keep exploring the issue, cause - like you say - I dont want to run out just when I am trying to negotiate Lady Musgrave or somewhere similar.

[harlie]

Andrew; in addition ember that I'm pushing in most cases 3800 to 4000 RPM with both engines.

Hi Victor

Can you tell me what speed you have for 4 litres per hour at 3800-4000 rpm?

[victor]

Going head to wind with neutral current and no more than 10 kts apparent...aprox. 6.5-6.8kts.
Andrew at half throttle your probably turning no more than 3000 rpm
The new engines have a 6000rpm top as opposed to the older at 5000rpm.

[Bubba]

I use an out board on the 29 ft monohull sailboat we have now and we get 5 knot's at under 2000 rpm and use .5 US gal an hour but it is a Susuki 70 hp 4 stroke. When you speed up and go over 2000 rpm the fuel usage goes up lots and at 3000 rpm it is using 1 us gal an hour and boat speed is only 8 knot's. Lots of difference when there is a time limit out enjoying your boat, at 5500 rpm we use 2.5 us gal an hour and are only travling at 16.5 knot's an hour. Being in a hurry cost more very quickly, after you retire and have more time the fuel cost will go down.

[Peccadillo]

Hi all. I had a Seawind 1000 for 3.5 years (not XL). I found the 9.9 Yams very good and reliable and Yamahas have a really good reputation here in general. Unfortunately, there must be occasional duds come of the assembly line by the sound of things. If we kept motoring speed under 5.5 kn, and there were no adverse conditions (e.g. strong headwinds), I found 1.5 l per hour was a reliable figure. This quickly went up to 2.2 or more if you were pushing it. While I have no doubt diesels would be better in some conditions, they are heavier, more expensive to buy, and would not add much to performance in most conditions. All boats are a compromise and I think the Yams are fine for the SW 1000 market. I never touched the Yamahas, except for annual service. I'm always dealing with some little maintenance issue with the diesels on my current boat (they have only a few hundred hours on them)!

Once I learnt not to overfill the tanks, and to be careful not to rush the job, I had no problems with petrol smells. I have seen one local Seawind that increased tank capacity by installing an off-the-shelf large outboard tank in the forward lockers and connecting it to the main tank by gravity feed.

One other comment from earlier in this thread - Catty seemed very concerned that the Seawind is flawed because it is based on another boat. My comments would be:


the design works really well; sure it might be even better if it was started from scratch, but then it wouldn't cost half the price of similar boats, and new design always creates new teething problems
most cars are based on a previous model (often going back a decade or more); this is one of the main reasons cars now are cheap and reliable.
I now sail a Chris White 46. It does a lot of things better than my Seawind, but mainly because it is a much bigger boat. Peccadillo is a better boat for long passages and offshore. But the Seawind took us across Bass Strait twice and back, including a 12 hour gale gusting up to 55 kn near Wilsons Prom, and handled it remarkably well. I'm very happy with my current vessel, but I miss a lot of things about the Seawind - it was a great boat!

[smj]

I recall Seawind use to offer the Honda 25 as an option. Would the 25 fit in the standard engine compartment or were the compartments modified? I would like to be able to maintain a 6 knot speed on 1 motor but be able to run at reduced rpm to lower the noise. AJ

[victor]

Hi AJ; I'm pretty sure that the guy with the Honda outboards was from NJ.
He reported motor speeds of 10kts, however it is believed that his claim of 10kts may be a bit bogus. To motor over the hull speed (the hump) of the SeaWind takes a lot of HP, probably in the range of 60. Also we could never understand what if any instrumentation he was using to check speed and weather the speed he was getting was over ground or through the water. The engine compartment was modified to accommodate the engine cowling in the up position.

[Ozmultis]

Update on my fuel consumption. After a trip up the coast (just one day north) and the trip back, with a little (not much) motoring on the way up and a little more on the way back, followed by some tooling around the bay - short day sails and the like - our interim (time between fills) litres per hour is 1.2.

We weren't pushing hard and didn't have to contend with large seas etc, so I still think my trip plan level of 1.5 LPH per motor will be pretty close.

[Ozmultis]

Peccadillo is a better boat for long passages and offshore. But the Seawind took us across Bass Strait twice and back, including a 12 hour gale gusting up to 55 kn near Wilsons Prom, and handled it remarkably well. I'm very happy with my current vessel, but I miss a lot of things about the Seawind - it was a great boat!

Thats a fair endorsement given you are sailing what I think is one of the better designs available, I would happily have an atlantic 57!! When the lotto win happens.

[44C]

Thanks Victor - So you were using about 2 litres per hour per motor (given that 1 US gallon is 3.7 litres - so your 1.1 gallons per hour equals 4.07 litres per hour ) when you had the older bigger capacity 9.9s?



I've been using just a shade under 2 litres per engine per hour with my Honda 20's on my boat. That's at around 6 knots on one engine, or 8 on two - around 4500rpm.

I don't have the weight and windage of the rig yet, (coming soon) so that will no doubt knock it back a bit.

[Ozmultis]

Hi guys - our blog (click the link below) has been updated with our little trip if anyone is interested.

[44C]

Saw you in Urangan, (we're on the end of the next finger) but didn't have a chance to say G'day. Was going to next day, but you were gone!

[Ozmultis]

Thats a shame - I would have loved to have met you and looked (enviously) at your boat.

[Ulysses]

Andrew, will you have Dilligara at Sanctury Cove this year?

[Ozmultis]

Yep

[Ozmultis]

So guys - and gals - my web site for the boat now has a few more things on it - particularly the reviews and resources page. Have a look and tell me what you think.

[smj]

Hi Andrew,
I was just reading the engine section on your website and would like to know if you have a tachometer and if so what rpm's are you running at to maintain the 5kts. under 1 motor and 7kts. under 2. We can get 7 kts. but are running the rpm's pretty high and burning alot more fuel.
Thanks AJ