'The X-Files'

[jono]

I'm concerned that posts that go missing on a particular...Forum, that maybe there is a need to open a 'X-Files' for these missing posts, so we all don't miss out reading the latest gossip on any subject. What do you think?:)...jono

[Talbot]

not really worth the effort. I dont think there is anybody who posts regularly on this forum, who is in any doubt about their attitude.

[jono]

Yes Talbot, you're right on this one.:D:D let this file gather dust...jono

[KGP]

I'm concerned that posts that go missing on a particular...Forum, that maybe there is a need to open a 'X-Files' for these missing posts, so we all don't miss out reading the latest gossip on any subject. What do you think?:)...jono

I'm not concerned that posts will go missing, but I think it would be interesting to grab some posts and share opinions that differ from the allowed "nice" posts of CF, where those who opine nicely seem to have bought what I view as total bull shit - from a wolf in sheep's clothing, totally captivating some, with the intention being to fleece the flock. "The X-Files" will do, but maybe a better thread name would be the Bullshit Files. Back with the first installment tomorrow.

[jono]

I'm not concerned that posts will go missing, but I think it would be interesting to grab some posts and share opinions that differ from the allowed "nice" posts of CF, where those who opine nicely seem to have bought what I view as total bull shit - from a wolf in sheep's clothing, totally captivating some, with the intention being to fleece the flock. "The X-Files" will do, but maybe a better thread name would be the Bullshit Files. Back with the first installment tomorrow.


KGP, I wait with batted breath for your post...I've seen some gems of Planet Gideon which must be dusted off from the 'not nice forum' :D jono

[ireaney]

Jono
Nice to see you back with all guns firing. :)

[jono]

[quote=ireaney;10201]Jono
Nice to see you back with all guns firing. :)[/quote

Ian how you going mate... let the X-Files begin. :D

[KGP]

There was a very popular thread on CF some time ago. It managed to influence someone so much that while African Cats did not initially show up on their want list, they later came front and center for purchase consideration. How did this happen? Well it surely wasn't by way of advertising or posting commercial news, which would be in direct violation of CF rules (http://www.cruisersforum.com/?page=rules), because we all know that Gideon does not do that. He has told us so (http://www.multihulls4us.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9779&postcount=28), even recently after having the opportunity to reflect and think of his past posts.

Yes, I am speaking of the popular thread (http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f48/characteristics-of-a-circumnavigating-cat-7846.html) started by Andreas (settingsail2009). In that thread Gideon somehow sees fit to circumvent the rules and put forth a commercial post (http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=131558&postcount=229)with an attachment, stating "What you are discribing is exactly what I have done before building the FastCat 435" in a reply to a long list of Andreas' wish list. What perfect timing! Funny, I have seen that tact used a few other times, including once on this forum, stating something much the same.

Contact made, marketing objective accomplished. Even though Andreas opines that a Fastcat would be his ideal circumnavigating boat, he is faced with reality; He doesn't have enough funds (http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=131983&postcount=248) to buy one. Not even a second hand Fastcat. Wait, Andreas is in luck! The demo boat, hull number one, will become available shortly! Question to self: How can a boat that was not on the buyers radar, there is no boat owner data available at the time and has certainly never circumnavigated somehow become the leading candidate? Certainly can't be because of the opportune commercial posts the seller has not repeatedly done against the forum rules? Whatever, Andreas strikes his dream deal to buy a Fastcat.

At the time I thought "Hey, dude found some money. Good for him." Puzzle piece number one: Now I can't exactly piece together the entire time-line, but I recall Paul mentioning that Andreas was cleaning out bilges for Gideon? He moves to SA to clean bilges and work for Gideon? Could that be part of some kind of work for me to work off the purchase price deal? Puzzle piece number two: By now we have all seen that the boat appears to be registered to Gideon. Well, those two pieces seem to fit. Ask yourself under what circumstances have other manufactures of such top of the line boats, which Gideon clearly fancies his boat (http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f48/characteristics-of-a-circumnavigating-cat-7846-23.html#post139547) to be in the company of, would work some kind of payment situation where they would maintain title? No, can't draw any concrete conclusion if this is a rent to own deal, but the pieces appear to fit.

It's the repeated injections of Gideon's marketing in threads outside of the forum allowed rules that really started me wondering; "Why is this guy so intent on force feeding his message?" Later in that same thread, Gideon finds another opportune time to reply to someone asking about fossil-fuel-free catamarans. I have to say that at this time I was captivated and impressed, even though I wondered why he was pushing his message so hard in a thread he wasn't supposed to be doing so. No matter, what I was reading was cutting edge - state of the art, and he seemed to have enough logic behind his message that at least I was convinced that it was for real. And "real" carries over to most everything he was claiming (http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f48/characteristics-of-a-circumnavigating-cat-7846-20.html).

What was he claiming? Lets break it down:

- "We Produce all our cats with the Green Motion system"
In reading that statement I take it that everything coming off the production line now has this green motion system. Does Butterfly have it?

- "This system has 2 retractable electric motors/generators that propel the yacht and regenerate the batteries when sailing."
This does not say "will have." It implies that it has been fitted to a production cat.

- "The system is not fossil free yet since we carry an emergency generator on board that needs to be used with long periods without wind"
So the recent increase in size for the generator has nothing to do with the Green Motion system (http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f48/electric-main-drive-s-3337-31.html), as it would only be used in case of emergency?

- "We are at the end of the testing of the system in our testing basin in Durban South Africa"
Again, this implies that it has been fitted to a production catamaran and has been thoroughly tested. How else would the swing arms receive adequate testing?

- "and the first FastCat 455 is being built and will be launched in June this year."
Mind you that this post was from February 2008. Today we know that the system is still waiting for parts. And these parts appear to play an integral role, which have not been tested on the system!

I don't understand how Gideon might think that people can only conclude he's full of BOWel movements.

Interesting quote from Chris White:
As of May 2009, I have yet to see an electric drive system that offers any net improvements or advantages over a conventional diesel engine coupled to a propeller. Yes, I have heard the hype and claims, I have just not seen examples demonstrating the performance promised. In fact the examples have been SO FAR AWAY from the promised performance that I have little expectation that anyone will deliver the goods soon.

[KGP]

From this thread (http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f48/if-you-could-pick-anything-what-would-you-choose-7337-14.html), May 17, 2008: "I have build my choice , the FastCat 455
Greetings
Gideon"

Don't recall one being delivered yet. Certainly not by May 08. Maybe "build" means drawn or designed on Planet Gideon.

[ForumAdmin]

For the record I saw Andreas in Holland - that was where he cleaned the bilges of hull 1 for Gideon. Andreas boat was called hull 0. Its a new naming system on Planet Gideon, so not to worry:)

Taking all into account, it was crystal clear to us at the time of our visit to Holland that Andreas was struggling to have the boat.

Without reference to Andreas Gideon offered his boat and him for a few months training in the North Sea whilst we waited for our boat. We were told Andreas was going to use the boat as a charter boat to help pay for it.

I personally think that Andreas is a nice chap and none of my comments are ever aimed at in anyway insulting or harming him. In fact I feel sorry for him. When asked a direct question he could only answer honestly and that let the cat out of the bag.

Presented to us as the owner of hull 1 who just happened to be in the same marina - a man who loved his boat and would testify to us how it sailed and had agreed to join us on a test sail ...... the mask presented by Gideon fell bit by bit..... and that included a demotion Andreas's boat hull number from 1 to zero:)

[jono]

For the X-Files, some recent posts from the 'not nice forum'. The first two were deleted within seconds and tongaboys is no longer able to post there ...jono

[therapy]

Jono,

I am there a lot but don't go back to see what is missing. Too much to read by going to six different forums.

Too bad too because there is a lot of good stuff there.

[KGP]

Funny how in this CF thread (http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f126/fastcat-445-sports-cruiser-introduction-27128.html) a moderator jumps in and posts a rules excerpt. As I read that rules excerpt, it's amazing how many have been violated by Gideon himself, yet the caution flag is waved, presumably at Nordic for taking a factual questioning approach to Greetings. Lets see here:

Personal attacks on others will not be tolerated. Challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully. I guess when Gideon makes one of his famous "Now you are talking out your nose (http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f48/the-ideal-multihull-22403.html#post239952)" statements, the same doesn't apply.

Do not post unsubstantiated gossip, libelous remarks or directly misleading information. What has there been posted from Gideon that has been substansiated? And there has been nothing misleading?
::)
Stay on topic by keeping discussions relevant and on track.
So when he jumps into a thread and starts talking about how he does things (or dreams to do things) it's relevant? I thought there was another rule - something that has to do with commercial posts!

Be mindful of yourself and others. This forum is not a democracy; it is privately owned and we make the rules. If rules are violated we retain the right at our discretion to remove, edit or delete posts and if necessary ban or remove members. What they fail to see is that some people ARE being mindful or others by challenging unsubstantiated claims! Too bad the world just can't all sit around a fire and sing kumbaya. Gideon has broke more rules on that forum than ANYONE else has to date, yet it's others who challenge his BS who are warned.
::)

Just hoping David M is as courteous to me as I was to him in answering his question. Wonder if he still fancies (http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f126/new-fastcat-58-ft-12915.html#post135156) that fastcat 58?

[ForumAdmin]

I am amazed when there was simply no rudeness on the CF thread they posted the rules to stop posters being rude!!!! I find that thread amazing.

[KGP]

Haha - what a bunch of run and hide wimps! They closed the thread.::)

I so wanted David M to tell us what positive things he had to say about Africancats!:D::)::)::)::)::)::)

[KGP]

One of my favorite exchanges with Greetings - from this thread (http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f48/the-ideal-multihull-22403-2.html#post240024):

Hallo KGB

This post is only a reaction to another post where I see that most of what Schoonerdog want in his ideal cat is already present in the cat we build. I do not even advertise since we are again sold out for 2 years so why would I , it would only be a waist of m0ney for somebody else to invent the wheel all over again.

Greetings
Gideon

Your reactions often result in a glass of purple kool-aid. The kind that leaks.

I do not know what purple kool aid is but maybe you have had to much of it and it has shrunk the brain cells ?
You do not have to read what I write but there are others that do like what i write or they can do something with it.
Good luck with your Kool Aid whatever that may be.


It's this (http://www.raptureready.com/rr-kool-aid.html).
And in case you need to know what leaks are - link (http://butterflyandbarnacle.wordpress.com/2008/12/).

[2hullsgood1hullbad]

Unbelievable - I just came across this liitle gem from Gideon in a thread post from February 2008:

We are almost finished testing the GreenMotion system and it works even better than expected.
We are getting better than 3 Kw per hour while generating and are able to propel up to 9 knots on the 455 FastCat without noise or smoke.

Have I missed something somewhere or is this just complete and utter fabrication? Unless I've gone mad, what 455 Fastcat has been fitted with anything other than diesel engines? This post was 18 months ago and there still isn't a "Green Motion" system installed. Unless you know different?

[ForumAdmin]

In Gideon World all things are possible - you should know that!::)

[KGP]

Unbelievable - I just came across this liitle gem from Gideon in a thread post from February 2008:

We are almost finished testing the GreenMotion system and it works even better than expected.
We are getting better than 3 Kw per hour while generating and are able to propel up to 9 knots on the 455 FastCat without noise or smoke.

Have I missed something somewhere or is this just complete and utter fabrication? Unless I've gone mad, what 455 Fastcat has been fitted with anything other than diesel engines? This post was 18 months ago and there still isn't a "Green Motion" system installed. Unless you know different?

Can you provide a link? [Found it - http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f126/new-fastcat-58-ft-12915.html#post135250] (http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f126/new-fastcat-58-ft-12915.html#post135250%5D)
Ha! What a perfect example of directly misleading information. ::)

That's how things on Planet Gideon seem to work though. He probably was testing in a tank, got better run-time than expected, and then quickly ran to his calculator and projected some numbers to a fastcat 455, which hadn't even been fitted yet, never mind launched.

And the CF clowns think they are doing the world a favor by not allowing challenges to this BS...
::)::)::)

[KGP]

New thread (http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f126/positive-fastcat-comments-30090.html) just posted. Wagers on how long on will last?

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_l2nODDXOeHA/SpW-4sMP64I/AAAAAAAAH7A/KMvCpHmQu_o/s800/

[ForumAdmin]

It did not last - its gone!!!:)

Seems that you cannot even discuss any sort of issue at all.

Nor do you get an answer to straight questions like when were you rude because that is questioning the system and that is not allowed.

[KGP]

Anyone with a brain cell left can see that they are making complete fools of themselves. I mean really, why would any person preform such idiotic lunacy to censor a post where there is absolutely nothing wrong with (in the grand scheme of things)?

The message I recieved:
I have moved your thread "Positive FastCat Comments" to Quarantine. Your statement about the closing of the other thread being "so rudely and for no real reason closed," is a public comment on moderating, a violation of Cruisers Forum rules. I direct your attention to the following:[Insert Joseph Stalin-like rules excerpt...]

I doubt they are, but they should be ashamed of themselves.

[jono]

A Oldie... but a Goodie, a Thread posted by the maker of Fastcats

the (adventures of a) New Fastcat 405 please comment and help us making the perfect 40/41 ft cat

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f48/the-new-fastcat-405-please-comment-and-help-us-making-the-perfect-40-41-ft-cat-12038.html
07-01-2008, 11:32
Quote/post 6: Gideon

It will be a challenge to keep the ready weight at or under 3600 kilo,s or 8000 LBS
but I am sure we will get there.


07-01-2008, 23:58
Quote/post 32: Gideon

We have started selling already and the first 3 units are sold.
The first 410 will be in the water middle of next year and as we always do no cat is the same every improvement we can make along the total production run we will make even after a boat is sold and still in production. ":confused:"


04-07-2008, 08:14
Quote/post: Gideon

Just noticed the remark on the weight claim
You are always welcome to see the actual weight on our cats.
We have progressed from 8000 kilo for hull number 1 to 5.8 tons for hull number 4 and that is for fully outfitted cats.
I am trying hard to get the weight of a ready to sail but no option FastCat 455 below 5000 kilo and am sure that we will succeed.
Once this is done I will invite you to see the actual weight and you are welcome to sail with us


07-01-2008, 22:36
Quote/post 24: Gideon

The idea behind this cat is that it can be used as a weekender or for long cruises
In my feeling this is about the minimum size to do Ocean crossings with
Smaller is possible but with a lot less comfort .
I have used this Dinette setup for a long time now on our 435 with standard leather interior and even after 4 years it is still like new.
The open space is a great idea but not fit for colder climates and this cat will cruise the world. The hard top as shown is only to show that it will have a hard top , the actual hard top will be a copy of the saloon roof and will standard carry 4 x 210 watt solar panels.

Yes am now doing what I have always wanted to do
I sold my Car Dealerships 7 years ago with the idea to retire and started looking for my Ideal Catamaran , I could not find it ( the gunboat was not out yet) and decided to start building it myself.
My biggest advantage was that I had no idea at all how to build a boat :rolleyes: but I do have a technical back ground and was always interested in enrgy saving and lightweight construction.



26-06-2008, 01:26
Quote/post 181: Gideon

Hallo Alan

do not talk about what you do not know. I am not and have never been a car salesman.(see post: 24 above) :D I do not think there is anything wrong with being one but facts are different
The Norseman was designed 18 years ago by Simonis and the Fastcat 435 5 years ago by Angelo Lavranos
The weight of the first proof of concept 435 was when launched 8000 kilo,s complete Since that time we have come a long way , hull number 2 was 6900 kilo number 3 all electric 5800 kilo and number 4 even less,(thats Butterfly and Barnacle folks :eek::eek: really build number 2 ).
I never put other boats down , they all have there advantages .
We did get the approval on the Green Motion Propulsion system in the FastCat 455 separate from the normally driven diesel version.
Whenever you make a statement toward me I hear a tone of envy or Jalousy in it but I do not know why that is necessary.
When at the La rochelle boat show you where not even polite enough to introduce yourself
to me after having had numerous e mails send . I wonder why ?
Anybody wanting to come to the factory is welcome and the weight claims can be verified at any time since they are not just claims but fact , your cat so far is fiction and nothing but a paper design.
There are a couple of expressions that you will find befitting you
"Put your money where your mouth is "and
"the proof of the pudding is in the eating"

Just come and sail with me and you will find out the quality,s or a real build lightweight cat.
There is no fiction in that at all.
It is correct that we have build 4 FastCats 435 and what is wrong with that ?
You seem to find it a negative
I will not post any clients E mail addresses since that is not the correct thing to do , that is something I leave up to you

Greetings and do not call on me anymore for information since you know everything better anyway

Gideon .....(one very very upset Gideon...)



08-01-2008, 09:43
Quote/post 39: Gideon

I will let you in on a small secret Hull number five of the fastcat 460 will be spray painted inVery light yellow glow:) in the dark paint :confused:
At night it will shine turqoise for well over 12 hours.
This will increase safety and will give the boat a very sleek appearal
There are 3 41 ft cats on order but we have not really started selling yet
Nice hearing from you

Quote/post 40: David M
Please post some links to some pictures when you get them.

Thanks
David M (got someone here very, excited!)



09-01-2008, 00:48
Quote/post 47: Gideon

Unfortunately we will not be at the boat show this year. too busy with new developements but next year we will probalby be present.(shame about this for the buying public)

At post 155 someone point out that FastCats may have design plagiarism of the Australian Fusions Catamarans.



26-06-2008, 01:34
Quote/post 182: Gideon

Hallo IDRhawke

I will never copy the Fusions rear roof :confused: since I find it unpractical
we will use a hard top bimini like the one used on the Fastcat 455 see picture
it saves weight and givers a much better forward visibility.
I am hereby inviting you to our factory in Durban to do the weight checks before a new boat is launched.
For the new 405 we aim for a weight of 3600 kilo in a no option version.
We might come in 200 kilos lighter or heavier , we will only find out upon launching.
So far with the 435 and 455 the weights have been below target.
With our lower weights we will never tamper with safety , on contrary so far we have only made boats stronger while shedding weight and the nice thing is a lighter boat is a safer boat and actually needs less strenght.

Greetings
Gideon

Sadly it's all down hill from here on...people start to question weights (Setttingsail2009 43.5'...Gideon promised around a 5 tons weight!) his boat speeds, number of boats launched, facts Gideon removed from his site, etc,etc

And so the story of Planet Gideon began :D...jono

[ForumAdmin]

And so the story of Planet Gideon began

I understand he may be weakened by cryptonite.... maybe worth checking out:):):)

[jono]

I understand he may be weakened by cryptonite.... maybe worth checking out:):):)

O'Boy I never thought of that Batman!!!:D:D

[ForumAdmin]

Yes well gravity is lower than earth on Planet Gideon and this is probably the reason the weights differ so much from the claims. Basically they are perfectly valid claims on Planet Gideon but Earth with its higher gravitational pull leads to higher weights and hence problems.

He is just a sort of misunderstood super man.:)

[ireaney]

Just a little note (I know I have broken my word, as I promised some months ago to never mention CF again, just had to say something :() I noticed that the wanker that closed the thread was Ex-Calif one of their moderators that has his head so far up his arse that he thinks he is above everybody and will not communicate on a sensible and mature level, just likes to throw his toys out of his pram. ;)
He actually banned Jelly alias Matty and his Gay friend Sebbo, I was enjoying winding up all the CF twats ( I mean their Nazi Moderators) with that one, oh well.:(