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Nordic
9th July 2009, 10:31 PM
We have been working on getting some 3D versions of the standard layout done.

Below are a few that should give an idea of how the boat is designed at present.

Notice in the pictures from the aft cabins, how the large double can be pushed apart to create 2 singles, as well as the way the bunks can tilt up, so you can walk down between them and get access to all the storage without having to crawl in.

Note that the inside steering position is not yet shown, but the wheel can be detached and stowed for longer passages.

Please comment freely.

Thanks

Alan

imagine2frolic
10th July 2009, 03:30 PM
I really like the way the galley encloses you. Lots of counter space, and safety there.;)......i2f

LoneStar
10th July 2009, 05:32 PM
Looks great! I think i would prefer the transom steps to open more to the inside like the St Francis does. It also looks like you may have done away with the walkway on the aft between the steps? I really like that also.

How do you think the twin mast version will compare to the single in terms of cost and also performance?

I can't wait to see it built, any targets yet?

Steve

Nordic
10th July 2009, 05:58 PM
Hi Lonestar,

I'm enclosing a closeup of the stern where the walkway and 1 meter deep transom platform is. (For landing fish etc.)

We haven't finalised the single rig version, so have not done any runs on the VPP, but I expect it to be a bit slower with a fixed mast. With a rotating mast and the same sail area it will be about the same as for the bi-rig.

I need to get a web site up before I can move on, but work and other hobbies take up too much time:)

Alan

Nordic
10th August 2009, 09:26 PM
The inside helm station is not shown on these drawings, but it is at the stbd side "desk"/navstation.

The galley is designed for use by up to 3 people, one inside and 2 on the outside if required.

Alan

imagine2frolic
10th August 2009, 09:33 PM
We can steer from the nav station with a second pod for the autopilot. We also have a handheld fly by wire that we can plug in all over the boat. Something like this would be a space saver instead of a full wheel, and steer from nearly any positionon the boat......i2f
http://www.tecnautic.com/public/brochures%20US/overview.pdf

Nordic
10th August 2009, 09:44 PM
Thanks for the link i2f. I hadn't seen this company before.

I plan on using NKE autopilots, as they have 7 or 9 preset and programmable modes, so you don't have to change a bunch of parameters when going from one wind direction/sea state to another.

The use of CANBUS technology is fast growing at the moment, but for fault finding and maintenance it can be a real pain, I know, because I work with industrial bus systems.

Remote controls for AP's are available from all major brands now.

I have been on/off on the inside helm, but having decided for hydraulic steering, it is not a big issue to do one, the wheel will be easy to dismount.

Alan

therapy
10th August 2009, 09:44 PM
A-mazing!!

Freetime
12th August 2009, 11:14 PM
This looks better and better....:)

I cant remember the calculated Weight of the boat?

And i also saw you have plans for a traditional rig. How many square meter do you think it will be. And compare to the bi-rig?

I like Chris White, Outremer, Freydis, Xlight Catamarans and the space in FP and Lagoon. So this must be a good mix of it.

Nordic
7th October 2009, 04:46 PM
The weight for the basic boat will be under 8 tons, so depending on how much extra stuff is added, I reckon around the 10 ton mark with full tanks and supplies for a 6 week cruise.

The traditional rig will have slightly less sail area, just with the square top main and a self tacking jib.

Extra sails can be flown from the prodder.

Space will be good, but less than on a Lagoon 500 say. This is not a charter boat, but rather a performance cruiser, designed for single handed sailing. Typically it will be a crew of 2 or 3 and some guests sometimes.

Plenty of space, but only 3 cabins and 2 heads.

No extra generator, aircon etc. The engines can have the 3 or 6 kVA Yanmar system added, for a weight gain of 31 kgs for the 3 kVA system. So still only 2 engines to maintain.

ka8uet
8th October 2009, 12:17 AM
I think the concept for the aft doubles is interesting. How does one prevent them sliding apart when being used as a double? Is there a way to keep them tilted up whilst accessing the storage areas?

Nordic
8th October 2009, 04:52 PM
I think the concept for the aft doubles is interesting. How does one prevent them sliding apart when being used as a double?

A simple locking mechanism like on a suitcase, in the middle.


Is there a way to keep them tilted up whilst accessing the storage areas?[/

Yes, just like on the bonnet(hood) of your car. I like to keep it simple and light. If required a pair of air cylinders can be used, but they are heavier, more expensive, and will finally rust to some degree.

Alan

BigCat
8th October 2009, 06:28 PM
Beautiful renderings, as always.

Nordic
11th October 2009, 04:02 PM
No comments on the layout Big Cat?

berntsen
11th October 2009, 09:28 PM
I need to get a web site up before I can move on, but work and other hobbies take up too much time:)

Alan

If you need, I can try to help out there. E. g. help pick a good CMS for your requirements, help run it or something ...

/\/ikolaj

BigCat
11th October 2009, 10:02 PM
No comments on the layout Big Cat?

Hi, Alan. Your layout does a good job of reflecting your priorities, which is all a reasonable person can ask of any plan.

My own priorities are different, and wouldn't result in forward cockpit. I'd want to have more interior, and shelter from the wind and spray in an outside helm position. I went from a perfectly conventional (monohull) fin keel sloop to a very odd boat, (a monohull,) with a big pilot house and a junk schooner rig. Most people imagined that the boat wasn't much of a sailboat, but in fact it had a huge rig and a tiny engine, and I usually sailed when most yachties would motor-because it was really easy to handle the rig. I really appreciated having a sheltered inside steering and watch station, as you have designed, and I think it's a really good idea to have full visibility for the navigation station, as well.

I also liked having the protection from wind and spray in the helm station aft of the pilot house. I designed the pilot house to see through from the aft (outdoor,) helm position, and that worked well for me. With a cockpit aft of a 3' high pilot house, and all controls led to the top of the pilot house, except for the main sheet, I had a secure and protected position for all sail handling, standing just aft of the pilot house.

I assume you plan on having folding, or at least removable, chairs at the dinette, if you carry as many passengers as you have berths for. I like the pilot house idea in general, and that is an idea you see on most catamarans. I am always puzzled when I see catamarans with dinettes that you can't see the view from. Fortunately, they aren't very common. In general, you need a dinette that is somewhat raised from the cabin sole level to get a good view- in other words, the dinette cabin sole is elevated 9 to 12 inches above the rest of the cabin sole, and the seats are at a height above the main cabin sole, to a height more like that of a bar stool than a chair.

Your showers look pretty tight to me, but I often feel that way about showers I see in catamaran designs. I assume that the dimensions are those you have experienced, and found adequate.

It seems that you have very little or nothing in the way of stuff sticking into the area under the bridgedeck, ie. 'shelves,' and that is a very good thing, IMHO. Your 'lightbulb' shaped hulls seem like a good way to get berth and shelf room without ending up with excessive hull beam, in a boat the size you are designing.

Obviously, making these elaborate shapes is going to entail a lot of labor. If you go into production with the design, the expense will be amortized over a number of boats, and so lessened. I always worry about getting good bonding when making cored hulls in a female mold. If you use vast amounts of bonding putty to accomplish this, you may add enough weight that you might as well not have gone with a cored hull.

If this design were to be a one off, I would think that making bigger, simpler hulls would be more cost effective, and result in a faster boat. Bigger actually makes simple easier. For example, bigger makes it possible to have shaft drive without putting the engines under berths. I don't know if a shaft drive is cheaper than a sail drive, but it is simpler and more robust, if you use a conventional packing glans with high tech packing.

Of course, bigger leads to bigger and more expensive gear, but I respond to that by focusing on eliminating a lot of expensive gear. I prefer elegantly designed simplicity to a lot of high tech gear, anyway. You, on the other hand, seem to delight in elaborate high-tech systems. I wouldn't have a CAN-Bus electric system if you gave it to me free. You can, for example, carry a high capacity water maker - or, for the same money, you can make a bigger boat, and carry more water without increasing the DL ratio of the boat. The water maker requires maintenance and repair, which bigger built in tanks do not require. You can pay for elaborate new anchor designs, like the Rocna, or you can make larger Bugel anchors out of aluminum for a third the cost, and so forth.

Nordic
11th October 2009, 10:31 PM
If you need, I can try to help out there. E. g. help pick a good CMS for your requirements, help run it or something ...

/\/ikolaj

PM sent, thanks

Alan

Nordic
12th October 2009, 08:35 PM
We are getting way off course here, maybe a mod could move the irrelevant but pertinent posts to a new thread please?

Here is an old link to some aerorigged cats:

http://www.geocities.com/jp_br/Dreampage/List-AC.html

Alan

BigCat
12th October 2009, 08:46 PM
We are getting way off course here, maybe a mod could move the irrelevant but pertinent posts to a new thread please?

Here is an old link to some aerorigged cats:

http://www.geocities.com/jp_br/Dreampage/List-AC.html

Alan

How so? You specifically asked people to comment on the desirability of the Balestron rig.

-Wait, that must be a different thread that you asked that question on. They're both your threads, so I confused them. TD-

IreAneY
12th October 2009, 09:00 PM
I HAVE MOVED 6 POSTS IN THIS THREAD AS IT WAS A REQUEST AS IT WAS GOING OFF TOPIC, TO A NEW THREAD UNDER "NORDIC CATS" CALLED 'TYPES OF RIG FOR THR NEW NORDIC CAT', HOPE EVERYBODY IS HAPPY ABOUT THIS.

BigCat
12th October 2009, 09:15 PM
I HAVE MOVED 6 POSTS IN THIS THREAD AS IT WAS A REQUEST AS IT WAS GOING OFF TOPIC, TO A NEW THREAD UNDER "NORDIC CATS" CALLED 'TYPES OF RIG FOR THR NEW NORDIC CAT', HOPE EVERYBODY ISN HAPPY ABOUT THIS.

No worries. I confused two of Nordic Cat's threads. There's a current thread where he asked for comments on rig types for his boat. In effect, that's the same as asking for a comparative discussion about the desirability of rig types on any medium sized catamaran.

Nordic
12th October 2009, 09:42 PM
Thanks Ian,

good to see your on the ball..

Alan