Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 48

Thread: Ahhh, the open bridgedeck life

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    S.E. Florida
    Posts
    1,211

    Default Re: Ahhh, the open bridgedeck life

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoga O View Post
    Here is a picture of Susan in Maine, yes, this was SUMMER!

    Dedicated to staying in touch with her boat insurance clients on an area with poor cell coverage!

    Fair Winds,
    Mike
    Oops, She may be suffering through that to give me the quote on my "hypothetical" boat during my insurance research earlier this year.
    Sorry about that Susan. I did/do appreciate your time and effort and you are first on the list when I find 'the boat'.

    John
    "The floggings will continue until morale improves"!

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    St. Augustine, FL
    Posts
    683

    Default Re: Ahhh, the open bridgedeck life

    Quote Originally Posted by jkd View Post
    Oops, She may be suffering through that to give me the quote on my "hypothetical" boat during my insurance research earlier this year.
    Sorry about that Susan. I did/do appreciate your time and effort and you are first on the list when I find 'the boat'.

    John
    Yes, well if you would please stop wasting your time providing Ian the material for 90% of his posts(!), you might find one...

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Idaho, USA
    Posts
    189

    Default Re: Ahhh, the open bridgedeck life

    Hey there Yoga O and cchesley,
    In your humble opinions of the Maine Cat 41, is there anything stopping this boat from being a great "blue water", global circumnavigator?

  4. #24

    Default Re: Ahhh, the open bridgedeck life

    After 17 years of owning traditional bridgedeck cabin cats we are going to an open bridgedeck design. For the last 2 years we havs sailed occasionalywith our friends on their Maine Cat 30. What a boat! Today we closed on a 33' Seawind with a canvas enclosure instead of the hardtop. If we can get anywhere close to the sailing capability of the Maine Cat 30 we will be pleased. A.J.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    St. Augustine, FL
    Posts
    683

    Default Re: Ahhh, the open bridgedeck life

    Quote Originally Posted by solarbri View Post
    Hey there Yoga O and cchesley,
    In your humble opinions of the Maine Cat 41, is there anything stopping this boat from being a great "blue water", global circumnavigator?
    IM (not so) HO, the most significant thing that concerns me is the forward strataglass enclosure. The concern is with extended high winds and boarding seas (green water) breaking over the bows and slamming into this forward structure. If it gives way, we can still don the foul weather gear and have a bit more exposure than the more traditional bulkhead mounted helm station cats.

    While we have experienced winds up to 66kts without concern, we have not had them for more than about 20 minutes. We have had some boarding seas while beating, but nothing really huge for extended periods

    Chris and I have talked about it some, with the general thinking that some sort of rigid replacement for the front 4 or 6 windows might be nice. (I am currently putting off thinking any more about it...)

    Of course, the other thing to think about was expressed to us by some friends who circumnavigated. "We never thought of it as circumnavigating, but as island hopping from one port to the next. We picked good weather windows and never spent much more than 20 days at sea."

    Fair Winds,
    Mike

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    St. Augustine, FL
    Posts
    683

    Default Re: Ahhh, the open bridgedeck life

    Quote Originally Posted by smj View Post
    After 17 years of owning traditional bridgedeck cabin cats we are going to an open bridgedeck design. For the last 2 years we havs sailed occasionalywith our friends on their Maine Cat 30. What a boat! Today we closed on a 33' Seawind with a canvas enclosure instead of the hardtop. If we can get anywhere close to the sailing capability of the Maine Cat 30 we will be pleased. A.J.
    We have seen a few of the Seawinds in the US - nice boats with some well thought out touches, plus they sail quite well. The 1160 was briefly in the running, but a bit too late to the US for us.

    Fair Winds,
    Mike

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Friday Harbor, Wa
    Posts
    73

    Default Re: Ahhh, the open bridgedeck life

    The Maine Cat is an open bridgedeck cat just like Wharrams, some Shuttleworths etc. It can easily do ocean cruising. That said, the only concern remains the integrity of the strataglass windows, which make the bridgedeck so comfortable. As I see it, it's not a seaworthiness issue. I've considered that having replacement 'windows' aboard might be prudent as getting new ones overseas might be difficult in a timely manner. I have begun seriously considering a trip to New Zealand in a few years with Walking On Water. Will it happen? Hard to say but at this point, I believe I've got a boat that can do it safely and comfortably. Mike's experience in the Carribbean and sailing there probably gives him a more realistic set of actual data points for just how much of a factor heavy seas and spray might affect the enclosure.

    Interestingly, I had a discussion just yesterday with a boat owner who had a 50' half maran with a pretty extensive cockpit enclosure/bimini using lexan set in canvas. It looked real nice but he mentioned that yes, yellowing had occurred, (not seen in strataglass to my understanding) and that they had 'blown out' (and away) in the marina during a winter storm a couple years ago. Perhaps the softer, more flexible strataglass actually resists this and isn't as hard to sew into the sunbrella 'framing'?

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Idaho, USA
    Posts
    189

    Default Re: Ahhh, the open bridgedeck life

    Oh man, I'm finally on board a MaineCat 41!!!
    I just jumped on board one that is owned by Tracy sailing school.
    They (we) are on passage from New Jersey to Florida.
    I jumped on board in Charleston, SC and after a 230 mile passage (30 hours), we are sitting in New Smyrna Beach, Florida.
    Pretty exciting stuff!
    Anyhow, I'll be in Ft. Lauderdale by Sat. with some time to kill.
    Anyone want to take me out sailing?
    I'm buying food and drinks...

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    St. Augustine, FL
    Posts
    683

    Default Re: Ahhh, the open bridgedeck life

    Good for you! Hope you enjoyed it - Tracey is what they call "good people".

    Fair Winds,
    Mike

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    near Seattle
    Posts
    1,114

    Default Re: Ahhh, the open bridgedeck life

    Quote Originally Posted by cchesley View Post
    The Maine Cat is an open bridgedeck cat just like Wharrams, some Shuttleworths etc. It can easily do ocean cruising. That said, the only concern remains the integrity of the strataglass windows, which make the bridgedeck so comfortable. As I see it, it's not a seaworthiness issue. I've considered that having replacement 'windows' aboard might be prudent as getting new ones overseas might be difficult in a timely manner. I have begun seriously considering a trip to New Zealand in a few years with Walking On Water. Will it happen? Hard to say but at this point, I believe I've got a boat that can do it safely and comfortably. Mike's experience in the Carribbean and sailing there probably gives him a more realistic set of actual data points for just how much of a factor heavy seas and spray might affect the enclosure.

    Interestingly, I had a discussion just yesterday with a boat owner who had a 50' half maran with a pretty extensive cockpit enclosure/bimini using lexan set in canvas. It looked real nice but he mentioned that yes, yellowing had occurred, (not seen in strataglass to my understanding) and that they had 'blown out' (and away) in the marina during a winter storm a couple years ago. Perhaps the softer, more flexible strataglass actually resists this and isn't as hard to sew into the sunbrella 'framing'?
    I wouldn't put plexiglass (acrylic) or polycarbonate in a soft cover. I'd give it a rigid frame, plywood glassed over or foam core. You can get scratch and UV resistant versions, at about twice the cost.
    Currently concentrating on http://earthnurture.com .

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    53

    Default Re: Ahhh, the open bridgedeck life

    Just a thought, you could put up netting across the boat forward of the mast that would absorb the energy of the oncoming water. Think of a volleyball net at deck level. Of course you could have a much denser webbing pattern to absorb more energy. Not exactly sure how you'd mount it - probably wouldn't want all that load on a pair of stanchions, but it would be a way to dissipate some of the energy in the water, protect the strataglas, but still be able to see through it.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    64

    Default Re: Ahhh, the open bridgedeck life

    Quote Originally Posted by smj View Post
    After 17 years of owning traditional bridgedeck cabin cats we are going to an open bridgedeck design. For the last 2 years we havs sailed occasionalywith our friends on their Maine Cat 30. What a boat! Today we closed on a 33' Seawind with a canvas enclosure instead of the hardtop. If we can get anywhere close to the sailing capability of the Maine Cat 30 we will be pleased. A.J.
    In the often troubled waters of the Tasman, our 10m Seawind likes to dig in her crossbeam and scoop up a few hundred kilograms of green water with her trampolines and catwalk, which she then flicks over the hardtop to have it cascade over the aft awning into the aft end of the cockpit. It sometimes hits the for'ard hardtop windows pretty hard.
    Admittedly, it is usually when you're going to windward on the third reef in 25 kts true, and you could simply avoid doing that...

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    near Seattle
    Posts
    1,114

    Default Re: Ahhh, the open bridgedeck life

    Quote Originally Posted by artemidorus View Post
    In the often troubled waters of the Tasman, our 10m Seawind likes to dig in her crossbeam and scoop up a few hundred kilograms of green water with her trampolines and catwalk, which she then flicks over the hardtop to have it cascade over the aft awning into the aft end of the cockpit. It sometimes hits the for'ard hardtop windows pretty hard.
    Admittedly, it is usually when you're going to windward on the third reef in 25 kts true, and you could simply avoid doing that...
    This is the kind of experience that made me put a pilothouse with inside steering on my voyaging monohull. Most catamarans already have that kind of arrangement. I wouldn't give it up, when it's so easy to get! Nordic Cat has the right idea, IMHO. (The forward cockpit, not so appealing, IMHO, for the same reason. A raised outside steering station aft of the house, the usual arrangement, is a good idea, I think.) If you're going to put up a huge dodger, you have given away the windage advantage of the cabinless bridgedeck.

    Someone previously commented about windows being small on bridgedeck cabins, and thought it was due to weight. Not so--On most catamarans, the cabin is a box beam, and window cut outs weaken the box-beam that holds the hulls together, so keeping them small strengthens the beam that holds the hulls together.
    Currently concentrating on http://earthnurture.com .

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    St. Augustine, FL
    Posts
    683

    Default Re: Ahhh, the open bridgedeck life

    This is starting to sound like the thread on cockpit design. Big Cat, thanks for the comments and supporting the concept of an "inside" steering station.

    I can't agree with you on the raised helm station though. For us, that was such a big turnoff that we made this type helm station an automatic rejection when looking at cats.

    Our decision was amply rewarded when our boat was featured in the 2005 Annapolis Boat Show. It was a wet, windy, rainy weekend especially on Friday and Saturday. All around us were other "traditional" raised helm station cats whose cockpits were wet, windy and rainy as they were tied to docks and not pointing into the wind. We watched as visitors would quickly scamper into the saloon area or try and gain refuge behind the dodger.

    Over on TabbyCat, visitors entered a dry, calm cockpit with chocolate chip cookies baking down below. Quite a difference!

    Mark424, thanks for the suggestion on netting. I am having a bit of trouble seeing how this would work without creating a problem with viewing forward, plus would create the need for another structure to hold the netting, but I will think about it some more.

    Fair Winds,
    Mike

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    near Seattle
    Posts
    1,114

    Default Re: Ahhh, the open bridgedeck life

    You can see my ideal for the tropics on my website on http://bigcatcatamarans.com - a structure that provides shelter from the sun, rain, and forward wind. For temperate climates, I would also have an inside helm station in the deck cabin, such as Nordic Cat's, or as is seen in Gunboats. In monohulls, it's called a pilot house, and I had it in my old voyaging monohull, Batwing.
    Currently concentrating on http://earthnurture.com .

  16. #36
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    64

    Default Re: Ahhh, the open bridgedeck life

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoga O View Post
    I can't agree with you on the raised helm station though. For us, that was such a big turnoff that we made this type helm station an automatic rejection when looking at cats.
    I'm with you on this one, I can't stand this Starship Enterprise Captain's Chair thing that so many catamarans have. For me, it is also an absolute requirement that any catamaran not have it before I could consider liking it.

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    near Seattle
    Posts
    1,114

    Default Re: Ahhh, the open bridgedeck life

    Quote Originally Posted by artemidorus View Post
    I'm with you on this one, I can't stand this Starship Enterprise Captain's Chair thing that so many catamarans have. For me, it is also an absolute requirement that any catamaran not have it before I could consider liking it.
    Well, you need bridgedeck clearance from the water to avoid thumping, and you need a person's height above that if you are to have a cabin with standing headroom on the bridge deck. So, there's 9 feet or more above the waterline to the top of the bridgedeck cabin. You can look through the bridgedeck cabin's windows, you can have a forward cockpit, or you can eliminate the bridgedeck cabin. Otherwise, you have a high helm position. Most low helm positions lack all around visibility, and so are a hazard. Hence the popularity of the elevated helm position. Those aft outboard helm positions found in some French cats are a serious hazard, as well as really uncomfortable in windy days or bad weather, IMHO.
    Currently concentrating on http://earthnurture.com .

  18. #38
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    64

    Default Re: Ahhh, the open bridgedeck life

    Quote Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
    Well, you need bridgedeck clearance from the water to avoid thumping, and you need a person's height above that if you are to have a cabin with standing headroom on the bridge deck. So, there's 9 feet or more above the waterline to the top of the bridgedeck cabin. You can look through the bridgedeck cabin's windows, you can have a forward cockpit, or you can eliminate the bridgedeck cabin. Otherwise, you have a high helm position. Most low helm positions lack all around visibility, and so are a hazard. Hence the popularity of the elevated helm position. Those aft outboard helm positions found in some French cats are a serious hazard, as well as really uncomfortable in windy days or bad weather, IMHO.
    I wouldn't choose a cat without a low helm position, and have sailed a cat with a low helm for over 8 years.
    I would make the opposite point, namely that being stuck in a chair limits rather than aids visibility.
    Realistically, when you are under sail, the heads'l obscures so much of your view anyway that perfect all-round visibility is not possible, and when you are stuck in Captain Kirk's chair you can't easily move around for a view around the heads'l. In closed, busy waterways you need a leeward lookout on any boat and to be mobile yourself, moving for a look at the heads'l telltales, the mains'l telltales and for a quick look under the jib. This is why two helms are great. You can look aft much more easily if you don't have to crane your neck to look over your shoulder. In open, quiet waterways and especially offshore, the boat will be on autopilot most of the time, so you can sit where you like.
    I'm not really familiar with the French cats that you describe, but I think I'd agree with you on that one.

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    near Seattle
    Posts
    1,114

    Default Re: Ahhh, the open bridgedeck life

    Quote Originally Posted by artemidorus View Post
    I wouldn't choose a cat without a low helm position, and have sailed a cat with a low helm for over 8 years.
    I would make the opposite point, namely that being stuck in a chair limits rather than aids visibility.
    Realistically, when you are under sail, the heads'l obscures so much of your view anyway that perfect all-round visibility is not possible, and when you are stuck in Captain Kirk's chair you can't easily move around for a view around the heads'l. In closed, busy waterways you need a leeward lookout on any boat and to be mobile yourself, moving for a look at the heads'l telltales, the mains'l telltales and for a quick look under the jib. This is why two helms are great. You can look aft much more easily if you don't have to crane your neck to look over your shoulder. In open, quiet waterways and especially offshore, the boat will be on autopilot most of the time, so you can sit where you like.
    I'm not really familiar with the French cats that you describe, but I think I'd agree with you on that one.
    Not everyone chooses to have sails which obscure their vision. I don't. Seats don't have to all enclosing - they can be the bench type, which is my choice. I also like to be able to stand next to the wheel or sit behind it, so that's what I design.
    Currently concentrating on http://earthnurture.com .

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    St. Augustine, FL
    Posts
    683

    Default Re: Ahhh, the open bridgedeck life

    Big Cat,

    I think you are missing a bit of the point wrt headsails. With a high helm that is off-center, you are virtually guaranteed to have some visibility problems on at least one tack, even with a high cut sail. (Maybe that is less of a problem on your 65' design though).

    On your shoal draft version, the drawing makes the cockpit space appear pretty cramped and/or very enclosed and stuffy. Is it wider and deeper than depicted?

    Dual helms can be one way to solve some of the problems, but most of the ones I have seen require you to be on one side while under power. On the Seawinds, at least the cockpit floor is level, like we have on the Maine Cat. I can't say enough about the benefit of not having toe-stubbers or ankle twisters designed into the cockpit.

    Designing around all the things people want in a cat is definitely tough.

    Fair Winds,
    Mike

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •