Storm Experiences

[ForumAdmin]

More is OK - just that it can never be as deep as yesterday, even with a fair warning like 500 plus runs required the jolt felt down under travelled right through the world. It was painful to watch the excuses as they struggled to be good sports about LOSING.

I mean good winners like us never harp on about winning do we? No we just harp on about them losing and that is only a fraction of what we have had to suffer in the past

[ForumAdmin]

Anyway this is thread drift so I suggest this subject be sent to the Members Bar where you might find some sulking losers.

[jkd]

Thank you Thomas.

Yes lucky I feel. I think once the repairs are done I can really appreciate all I went through more. My friend and I were joking, as so many things happened over one week, from seeing dolphins, to having beer with the Taiwan coast guard, to catching a Marlin, went through a Typhoon and much more, that if I sold my boat the day I arrived in Okinawa, I could say "Once I owned a boat, ya caught marlin on it...Once went through a Typhoon and almost flipped it...Had a great time in Taiwan once". Then the person would ask how long did you have the boat for? Ahhh a week. I'll never forget it. I have a personal attachment to the boat now and a deep appreciation for it.

Okinawacat

OK Cat,

Glad you have marked this up as a good training exercise and are moving forward.
It sounds like the latches on the cabinets didn't hold up so well. You shouldn't need to tape doors closed when going off shore.
Can you give us a run down on the component failures and what would be better to prevent failure of those in the future? (pending your warrenty approvals, of course) I'm very curious about the mast winch failure and it's cause and also about a better spot you will be using for harness attachment if the bimini frame is not a safe point.

Thanks for sharing, as I learn a lot from these type stories and glad you have not decided to stay on shore after this trip.

John

[OkinawaCat]

Hi John,

I would tape doors shut IF we were heading into a storm, not if we were offshore sailing. Prevents heavy objects from knocking them over.

The winch and spinlock on the mast was taken off by a jib sheet catching it and ripping it off. Tons of power flapping the ropes.

Make sure the washer is tied down as well, even if there is 1 or 2 inches of movement. It it's heavy and can move tie it down. EVERYTHING.

Cheers

Okinawacat

[imagine2frolic]

We have small tabs that fold down over all cabinet doors when it gets snotty. It's always good to keep everything inside, and in place. Nothing worse than items flying about. Oh how I remember those mono days........i2f

[mikereed100]

We have small tabs that fold down over all cabinet doors when it gets snotty. It's always good to keep everything inside, and in place. Nothing worse than items flying about. Oh how I remember those mono days........i2f

I2F,

Do you happen to have a photo of these? I expect they will have been very nicely done given the quality of your cabinetry.

Mike

[imagine2frolic]

You can see the small round knob on top of the door. There is also one at the bottom, and these are through bolted. In the galley they hidden from view, and I have no pictures, but they are quite a bit stronger to hold pots, and pans........i2f

[Capt. Terry]

Awesome learning experience!
I have a little "thing" that I learned back in the Marines during Navigator School. Remember the term, it's "High Time". This means that in a high pressure cell the wind moves in a clockwise direction. In the Northern Hemisphere, of course. If you can remember this, then it's easy to remember that in a low pressure cell, the wind moves in the opposite direction, counter clockwise. And, down under, everythings backwards! It gives you an easy to remember beginning reference point, where you can figure out wind behavior. This coupled with a barometer, allows you to forcast wind directions and navigate in a direction that has favorable winds.
If your not living on the edge, your taking up too much space!
Capt. Terry

[BigCat]

"I need to recheck this but if it's a Typhoon or Hurricane It is wise to understand how they work. One turns the opposite way than the other. Typhoons counter clockwise. "

Both are regional names given to tropical revolving storms. The direction of rotation depends on whether it is north or south of the equator. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_cyclone

Finding the center from the wind direction depends on the hemisphere you're in, (ie. whether you are north or south of the equator.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buys_Ballot%27s_law

[BigCat]

"a better spot you will be using for harness attachment if the bimini frame is not a safe point."

Mooring cleats are (should be!) very strong and strongly mounted, as are winches and windlasses. Winches may be in use, though, so not available for that purpose.

[Capt. Terry]

The ONLY difference between a Typhoon and a Hurricane, is their location! A Hurricane is in the Atlantic ocean, and a Typhoon is in the Pacific. You would be correct to call either a "cyclone" which is the generic term. (in case you don't know which ocean your in!) Once again if you stick to the term "High Time" you will be able to easily figure out what's going on with the winds. There are a million people who will give you information that adds to the complication. High pressure turns clockwise in the northern hemisphere! KISS! And just so we are all clear and there is NO CONFUSION, ALL "CYCLONES" ARE LOW PRESSURE STORMS! Therefore, it will turn counterclockwise in the north. Also, We (Americans) name our Atlantic hurricanes after women. The Japanese name their (Pacific) Typhoons after men! (altho, they are in English, ie. Ivan) If it isn't clear as mud now, PM me, and I'll make it more difficult! Capt. Terry

[Talbot]

a Typhoon is in the Pacific.

Australians name theirs as Cyclones. All refer to the same sort of nastiness. The only difference is if you are north or south of the equator. as that will define the rotation.

[ka8uet]

I think that these stories are instructive, and the main point I see is that the boat will take care of you even if you are stupid/stubborn enough to head into a tropical storm. I suspect that both of you have far more confidence in your multis after your experience. I'd rather avoid such a learning experience, but if it happens, I'd rather be in a cat than a mono! It seems to me that cats don't fight the water the way that monos seem to. Glad you came through all right. Nothing will ever be so scary again!

[2MT]

mmm pardon me if i step on some toes.
I have spent allot of years in the north pacific where you get a bit of weather. it sounds to me like that skipper had the right of it.. after sailing into hong kong harbor; its shallow for a long ways out.

you want to be in deep water during a big blow no matter who is on board.

especially if you have to try to run a following or stern quarter sea.
the closer to the shallows you are the bigger the waves will be. Waves with a long time to build run deep. sometimes very deep.

ive seen this in the gulf of alaska and off the oregon coast where storm waves will rise steep over bottom topography in the 80 and 100 fathom line (along the shelf) sailors that ply the waters day in and day out tend to avoid these spots because they are known to be nasty places.

I would tend to trust the skipper if he has as good of experiance and rep as was stated. His life was on the line as well so you can bet he knew it. perhaps some one else has sailed that route and can shed some light on what would have happened if he had turned around.

[Talbot]

mmm pardon me if i step on some toes.
I have spent allot of years in the north pacific where you get a bit of weather. ............I would tend to trust the skipper if he has as good of experiance and rep as was stated. ...........

I dont think that too many of us have quibbled at the course he took once they were in the weather. The real questions are

Why did he go in the first place with a weather forecast putting such a weather pattern straight across his course. - was this a case of timelines overcoming judgement?

Once in the bad weather, why did he not slow the boat down. Speed is great to avoid the weather, but once in it, speed for a cat can put it into more danger than you can avoid.

[2MT]

if i put myself in his shoes.

1. it would depend on the storm track, reported speed of the storm and what the storm was reported to be when i left the dock. if it was a tropical storm moving at 15kts and not a typhoon in the reports and I was on a time line I would make way.

2. What boat experiance he had prior to this job? I find that due to working Salmon trollers and power scows i tend to push my small boat a bit more than i should. It takes me literally stepping back and asking my self if the boat can handle the situation sometimes.

the last I have no answer for you. I can think of several possible reasons on a power boat or mono hull, but do not have catamaran experiance so they could all be wrong.

this is my thinking. typhoons spin one direction if i was depending on the wind to drive me i might try to keep speed up to ride the spin. let the storm slingshot me along its edge and out into the clear. Risky yes but taking the full brunt of the storm might have been a bit worse.

I would have to judge several factors like gust speeds, wave period and height, swell, sea state, how fast the seas where building, and how the boat delt with no head way. with only one crew that knew how to sail i might choose to shoot the vortex because all the other choices looked worse.

Since i was not at the helm i dont know how i would have dealt with this storm. observational data from an inexperienced sailor that was below tending to a wounded man might not be as detailed as one could hope.

one thing i do know is this: working skippers dont get good reputations if they fail at any time. A good reputation is the only way to get jobs.

hope this helps.

[therapy]

if i put myself in his shoes.

1. it would depend on the storm track, reported speed of the storm and what the storm was reported to be when i left the dock. if it was a tropical storm moving at 15kts and not a typhoon in the reports and I was on a time line I would make way.

2. What boat experiance he had prior to this job? I find that due to working Salmon trollers and power scows i tend to push my small boat a bit more than i should. It takes me literally stepping back and asking my self if the boat can handle the situation sometimes.

the last I have no answer for you. I can think of several possible reasons on a power boat or mono hull, but do not have catamaran experiance so they could all be wrong.

this is my thinking. typhoons spin one direction if i was depending on the wind to drive me i might try to keep speed up to ride the spin. let the storm slingshot me along its edge and out into the clear. Risky yes but taking the full brunt of the storm might have been a bit worse.

I would have to judge several factors like gust speeds, wave period and height, swell, sea state, how fast the seas where building, and how the boat delt with no head way. with only one crew that knew how to sail i might choose to shoot the vortex because all the other choices looked worse.

Since i was not at the helm i dont know how i would have dealt with this storm. observational data from an inexperienced sailor that was below tending to a wounded man might not be as detailed as one could hope.

one thing i do know is this: working skippers dont get good reputations if they fail at any time. A good reputation is the only way to get jobs.

hope this helps.

Thank you for all that.

It seems that a lot of plotting and inspection of the details would need to be done, plus an interview.

More input is usually a plus.

Communication and all that.........

[BigCat]

Cool dingy, 2MT. I once junk rigged an 8' rowing / sailing tender for the heck of it. To the distress the owner of a marconi rigged sistership, it performed as well as the marconi cat version despite having flat sails. I used the tender as a shore boat for my 34' monohull junk cruising boat. I used bamboo and some cheap synthetic cloth from a cloth store to rig the dingy. The folks who now own my junk rigged cruising boat, Batwing, junk rigged their Klepper kayak, too.

I once left Guam for Madang, PNG, when there was a typhoon to the west, a typhoon to the northwest, and one forming well to the East in the Marshalls. I cut across the path of the one to the East, and got to the doldrums fast enough to avoid it. The other two were long gone. Sometimes a typhoon will loop back, but not a long way. Typhoons keep clear of the equator, by 5 degrees or somewhat more, so it's 'Olly Olly Oxen Free' once you reach that zone.

[2MT]

Cool dingy, 2MT. I once junk rigged an 8' rowing / sailing tender for the heck of it. To the distress the owner of a marconi rigged sistership, it performed as well as the marconi cat version despite having flat sails. I used the tender as a shore boat for my 34' monohull junk cruising boat. I used bamboo and some cheap synthetic cloth from a cloth store to rig the dingy. The folks who now own my junk rigged cruising boat, Batwing, junk rigged their Klepper kayak, too.

Our sail cost 11 cents a yard and is rip stop nylon. all told with fittings and all i think it totaled about 20 cents a yard. The Tari Tari is not to shabby in the sail ability department.

anyway I do think more information is needed form the skipper himself to asses this decision.

as any of you who have sailed for weeks at a time know sometimes the call you make has very specific criteria that may not be known by an outside observer.

[BigCat]

sailed for weeks at a time

It took us 30 days to get to the Marquesas from S. Cal. - We sailed across the doldrums. One day, we lost 10 miles. The Marquesas Islands are quite high, but we didn't spot them until we were about 10 miles from them. We were beginning to doubt our navigation. (This was in 1977, long before GPS.) The trade wind haze was really thick.