Page 1 of 9 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 176

Thread: Why a "Fastcat"?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Grenada, boatless...
    Posts
    195

    Question Why a "Fastcat"?

    Just a thought, but if you're looking for a fast, lightweight cat, why would you choose a Fastcat? A Schionning is a faster, lighter boat, with a proven track record, and can be yard built if you don't want to do it yourself. An owner showed me over his Cosmos 1350 (a stretched 1320) that he had yard built in Australia and it was lovely - very comfortable and spacious, and very well put together, apparently very fast, with daggerboards, and cheaper than a Fastcat. I'd love to be able to say that was finished on time but actually it came in a few months late...
    I'm sure there are plenty of other similar boats out there as well.
    I've never really figured out who Fastcats were being made for - they don't appear to be particularly fast, or light, so why not just buy a production boat and spare yourself the agonies that the owners of "Butterfly" have gone through?

  2. #2

    Default

    I couldn't afford one anyway. IIRC it's 900,000 EURO's for a 45 footer. Youd get a 50 foot boat built here for less. Or if you went for an Oram you could get a 60 footer built for less.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    932

    Default

    Fastcats are a dated design, or to be specific the Fascat 435/455. They are built by people with limited boat building experience, with an absentee owner sitting 10000 kms away most of the time.

    There has been alot of hype about these boats on another forum Despite all the fantastic innovations claimed by the company owner,the boats seem to weigh pretty much the same as a comparable size FP cat, with less space and amenities.

    The owner of the company has made numerous claims that have proven to be downright lies, regarding the weight, speed and number of boats on order.

    I was on one of the boats at the La Rochelle show a couple of years ago, and found the finish a bit shoddy, especially the woodwork and veneer work.

    The 2 boats sold and built for customers have both been delayed by about 6months, with numerous problems and long snag lists.

    The owners of Butterfly have done the right thing, and stuck with the project and not compromised in their demands to get what they ordered, but what an ordeal!

    In the case of Butterfly, despite the weigh scales reading around 8.5 tons lightship, Gideon still claims 6.5 tons and claims the 2 tons difference are extra options.

    I agree that there are alot more boats out there that will perform better and be cheaper and also better long term investments.

    A Chris White Atlantic 48 is 30% less and will run circles around a Fastcat, as will some of the others mentioned above.

    A Fastcat has only about 65 cms clearance under the bridgedeck, as well as large protrusions to fit the aft beds in.

    The Fastcat 48 is in fact a St. Francis 48, the Fastcat 30 is a Rayvin 30, much talked about because of numerous build quality issues...

    I would give Mr. Goudsmit a very wide berth when looking at a new boat, and save myself a whole lot of anguish and frustration.

    Alan

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Grenada, boatless...
    Posts
    195

    Default

    Yes, that's my point really - it seems you can buy a Fontaine Pajot or similar for less money and have a boat with similar performance to a "Fastcat" without the delivery delays and unproven build quality, and if you really want a fast cat then look around, there are plenty available for "Fastcat" money that really are fast and light, and can be built by reputable yards to a high standard. I know which cat I won't be buying...

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    50% Uk 50% on my boat
    Posts
    5,393

    Default

    I have found the whole Fastcat experience bordering on fantasy.

    I am amazed that in a poll for their dreamboat some 12.5% on the CF forum voted the Fastcat as their dreamboat.

    The Fastcat was on my short list and I went to Amsterdam for what turned out to be a surreal experience.

    The amazing thing today is that such incredible claims are still being made by Gideon as he delivers such deplorable service. For all the hype, he has only ever sold 2 new boats and both have problems.

    I hope that once fixed a Fastcat turns out to be a great boat because that is what the owners of Barnacle & Butterfly deserve.

    I do have to thank Gideon for one thing though - that is being the root cause of me leaving the CF forum to establish this one

    I only wish he would join this one and defend himself - he is more than welcome to do just that.
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Devon, UK
    Posts
    2,793

    Default

    I don't think he will join as most of the people who have seen through his claims on the other site, are here on this site and appear to spend a lot more time here as the information is freely coming, very informative without the bull shit.
    I sometimes wonder if there was a tie between him and the other site as he was able to get away with continually marketing his products on normal threads which 'Was against their policy':, because when he was confronted 'The Moderators' stuck up for him and not tried to resolve the issues in a professional and unbiased manner

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    50% Uk 50% on my boat
    Posts
    5,393

    Default

    The final straw for me was the moderator closing a thread to protect him and then adding his own personal bit after the thread was closed in in that bit having the nerve to criticise the owners of Butterfly & Barnacle.

    I reported this and lost then battle then a more senior moderator agreed that it was wrong to have added the comments but any telling off had to be done in private - no moderator was ever allowed to be wrong in public.

    My problem was that no matter what the subject Gideon was in there with points I wanted to challenge but could not because you were not allowed to point out his total inconsistent points as that was considered to be bashing him.

    I found myself so hand tied that when he joined a thread I felt I could not take part anymore.

    Anyway as he claims to be producing 7 boats a year now rising to 12 a year and none have arrived from the factory in the last 6 months- we must be due for them popping out in quick succession in under a month each for the next 6 months.

    I am tempted to publish the video I took in Amsterdam but do not feel like working to post such a negative conclusion.
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Grenada, boatless...
    Posts
    195

    Default

    Paul, please publish the video, it has to be of value to prospective Fastcat purchasers?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    50% Uk 50% on my boat
    Posts
    5,393

    Default

    Things did not go well.
    With 26 knots of wind we had to use the engines to tack and it really was a shanles.

    Lesley told me that is that is what sailing cats are like at sea then she will not be with me in one!!

    Video is a very powerful media to use in a negative manner and I never try to do that.

    Wait until you see the video that I am working on now - it will do St Francis a lot of good.
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Devon, UK
    Posts
    2,793

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ForumAdmin View Post
    The final straw for me was the moderator closing a thread to protect him and then adding his own personal bit after the thread was closed in in that bit having the nerve to criticise the owners of Butterfly & Barnacle.

    I reported this and lost then battle then a more senior moderator agreed that it was wrong to have added the comments but any telling off had to be done in private - no moderator was ever allowed to be wrong in public.

    My problem was that no matter what the subject Gideon was in there with points I wanted to challenge but could not because you were not allowed to point out his total inconsistent points as that was considered to be bashing him.

    I found myself so hand tied that when he joined a thread I felt I could not take part anymore.

    Anyway as he claims to be producing 7 boats a year now rising to 12 a year and none have arrived from the factory in the last 6 months- we must be due for them popping out in quick succession in under a month each for the next 6 months.

    I am tempted to publish the video I took in Amsterdam but do not feel like working to post such a negative conclusion
    . I understand what you are saying, but if you have the time I, and I am sure many others, would love to see what you experienced
    The area I have highlighted in red is very interesting, some time ago I was very interested in the Fusion 40 a kit Cat from OZ, in a thread on the other forum, he critized the Fusion, see his reply below

    Hallo Ireaney
    I think A forum is meant to give a opinion and that is all I did.
    You are right we have only build and sold 65 FastCats over the last 6 years in sizes from 39 ft up to 52 ft. and I am sure more Fusion 40 s have been build and sold with their special way of building and construction. However the Fusion is a total different type of cat for a different public and in no way a treath to us , we are sold out until the end of 2011 and have stopped selling until we can up our production in our new factory.
    The FastCat has been extended to 46 ft , the roof has been raised to accomodate a headroom of almost 7 feet thru out the boat . As I stated before I think the concept is good but Quality of workmanship is lacking in the only hull deck parts as coming out of a container, I have seen coming from Thailand at a professional boat builder in South Africa.
    Another thing I noticed as a critical boat builder is that in the infusion process the foam was not tight together creating resin rich spots and because of that poor infused foam parts next to these runs.If you want my opninion they have a lot to learn in Thailand before a quality boat comes out.
    It is the best way to staple the foam together with nylon staples prior to the infusion process becasue the moment you apply vacuum the foam starts to shift and creates resin runs that we want to avoid at any cost.
    This in only my 10 cents worth

    Warm Greetings

    Gideon Goudsmit



    As from the information above by Mr GG we must all be wrong he has sold 65 cats

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    50% Uk 50% on my boat
    Posts
    5,393

    Default

    65 I honestly thought that I could no longer be surprised ..... but I am

    I just do not know how anyone can advertise other makes of boats as his - claim to be an exclusive agent for St Francis when he was not etc etc etc - I am totally amazed how anyone could get away with it all.
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    50% Uk 50% on my boat
    Posts
    5,393

    Default

    By the way which make was the 52 footers he sold?
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Devon, UK
    Posts
    2,793

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ForumAdmin View Post
    By the way which make was the 52 footers he sold?
    Christ knows, Mr Walter Mitty must have designs we don't even know about, the more I read and see about this manufacturer the more I am confused as to how he still sells his boats and why people fall for the sales spiell.
    I am sure that there are laws about his claims ie Office of Fair Trading, Trading Standards and Production description.

    It is getting to the point of absurdity and reminds me of when I was in China watching TV in my hotel bedroom and the adverts came on, I did not understand what was being said, but you were presented with what I would call as an unattractive young Chinese lady who proceeded to rub a special cream on her face and 'Hey presto' the next shot of this young lady and she was transformed into a beauty. I still understood what they were trying to say which would have been banned big time in the Uk.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    50% Uk 50% on my boat
    Posts
    5,393

    Default

    If Gideon made that cream it would be the longest running TV advert in history as it would take 6 months and counting before any result was delivered!!!
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Devon, UK
    Posts
    2,793

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ForumAdmin View Post
    If Gideon made that cream it would be the longest running TV advert in history as it would take 6 months and counting before any result was delivered!!!
    That would be unfair there would be too many ugly girls around.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Brisbane Australia
    Posts
    1,154

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ForumAdmin View Post
    Video is a very powerful media to use in a negative manner and I never try to do that.

    Wait until you see the video that I am working on now - it will do St Francis a lot of good.
    Well done Paul, - say your piece and be honest but don't bash the thing for ever - I think that it is appropriate, everyone here is being direct about the fastcat but not getting emotional, I think it shows a maturity of members.

  17. #17
    TYRNTLZRDKING Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ForumAdmin View Post
    Video is a very powerful media to use in a negative manner and I never try to do that.
    I agree that video is a very powerful media, and one should not try to make it negative, but I for one would like to view the truth.
    Are you saying that any negative opinions of yours will not be shown in video?
    Be objective and fair. Show the good, bad, and ugly.

    Jeff

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    50% Uk 50% on my boat
    Posts
    5,393

    Default

    I was aware of the very point you made when I decided not to publish.

    It is a valid point.

    My aim is never to report anything that is not true - all I say on each viceo is totally my true opinion. My aim is to report good and bad in a totally balanced fashion.

    I do not want to scare people away from allowing me to make videos and frankly I am not keen to spend about 50 hours work to produce a video that, as in this case, would be very negative indeed. In fact there is really nothing good I could honestly find to say. Having to use engines to tack in 26 knots of wind is not good! The finish and obvious faults in the boat are not good. The total fabrications told to us are not good. It would be the video from hell

    I also think that everyone knows how I feel about Fastcats or rather the owner. I also think that going over and over it would lose any weight given to my opinion - folks watching me continue to flog a dead horse would think thoughts that started to reflect on me, not the horse

    I am working hard everyday on the new St Francis video but do get a thing called 'work' that I have to do now and again and that slows it down. When you see the new video, which is much more personal, I hope you will see that we are reporting as flies on the wall and honestly.

    Lesley features on the new video a lot, so at least you will meet one side of the team
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

  19. #19
    gideon Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 44C View Post
    I couldn't afford one anyway. IIRC it's 900,000 EURO's for a 45 footer. Youd get a 50 foot boat built here for less. Or if you went for an Oram you could get a 60 footer built for less.
    I like the 900.000,00 euro part but why the increase from 520.000,00
    That is the price for a sail away FastCat 455 , no more unless you want loads of options.

  20. #20

    Default

    Sorry, it was based on my recollection of prices being discussed. I must have remembered incorrectly, or perhaps I remembered the number 900,000 which would be the approximate price in Aus dollars, but forgot that I had already converted it from Euros. Either way, it's out of my price range.

Page 1 of 9 123 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •