Size of The Largest Cruising Multihull That You Would Singlehand?

[djeeke]

IMO people focus too much on the length of the boat. Outside of a marina, ease of handling has more to do with the size of the rig and sails, and how they are set up, than the length of the hulls.

In many ways longer boats are easier to sail, they pitch less for one thing, and have better directional stability, so are easier to steer.

As long as possible, with a manageable sail plan is my answer.

You said it all, outside marina we want to be able to handle the sails comfortably...

But with all vehicles, maneuvers are the most challenging moments (unless you don't look at your weather forecast before sailing off towards those gales) ...

And as part of cruising we will tend to spend some time in harbours and marinas, singlehanding a big boats in a tight marina would stress me out.
I've seen it happen so many times, I've ran out so many times to help out while others just look and wonder how the guy is going to manage all by himself without crashing into the dock (or the boat next to him) or being blown away from it before he gets all the lines secured...
It even also happens to me on my monohull, getting the boat in it's dedicated spot at the exact speed so I can jump off and secure it is the most stressing part of the day (especially when there is lots of wind....)
Singlehanding challenges to me are more related to slow speed maneuvers when current and wind control your boat instead of you at the helm... I agree, a big cat will have dual engines so maneuvers should be under better control...

As always... Compromises compromises ....
(But, as I said before, I guess I'm a lucky guy as I can't afford a big boat anyway)

I have three close friends who easily single hand their 40 ft monos sailing all sailed single handed from mainland Japan to Okinawa. The hull length and space inside helps a lot. The hulls in a multi under 38 get pretty narrow compared to a 40 ft mono. Don't get me wrong, I prefer a cat, just think under 38 ft, it's getting pretty tight inside and think you will suffer with the shorter hull length.

Okinawacat

I definitely get your point!
It depends on the boat design and layout, some smaller boats offer more comfort than bigger ones ...
But I don't think even a 30ft cat will be cramped inside if it's just me on the boat... The narrow double berth in the hull will be big enough for me alone... It will be able to carry food reserves, I will be able to prepare my food in the galley (obviously galley down in this size of boat)... I will have less sq ft of boat to look after (keeping it clean is also part of boating ;-)
I agree 'en route' there might be some advantages for the monohull but I prefer the upright multihull, for me, this is much less tiring than the heeled mono...
And on a major voyage I would also spend lots of time at anchor and in marina's, a big advantage here for the multihulls, no rolling at anchor...
On this one, I stay with the cat ;-)

:

[timbenner]

I single hand my Lagoon 380 with ease. Wife and 4 year old rarely need to do a thing, but entertain themselves and feed me. Flying the asymmetrical spinnaker single handed is another story. I rarely do it, mostly out of laziness.

We live on the east coast of North Florida, so a larger boat is not an option, if you want to enjoy the IntraCoastal Waterway (ICW). The majority of the bridges on the ICW are 65' (except N. Miami - 56'), so the larger cats won't fit.

What a pleasure sailing the east coast of the USA, popping in and out of the ICW to avoid fowl weather or to find a waterfront bar, restaurant or marina.

tim benner
Lagoon 380
I Dream of Jeanne

[steve sharp]

We, me included in an earlier post, have veered away from the original question posed on this thread which was, “What is the size of the largest multihull you would single-hand?” I would be interested in further comments on the original topic as I would like to know what others feel are the factors that would limit the size of boat.

What Limits Size Other Than Cost?
Many of the comments so far seem to indicate that the ability to handle the boat in confined spaces and dock her would make a smaller boat more attractive and yet, in my experience, this is quite far down the list. In my case it is the weight of the sails and gear that have to be handled that would be the factor that defined the upper limit of size and for that reason I think that displacement rather than LOA would be my most useful measure. I can handle my 15 tonne cat and its gear although there are times when it is more effort than I care to admit. I think I would have to draw the line at 20 tonnes displacement even with the latest and best lightweight gear and a very sensible single handing layout. However, I am older than most sailors and not so strong so my limits may be well below the consensus.

Optimum Size?
I agree with the general consensus that the optimum size might be in the neighbourhood of 40 feet or a bit under that. Using my criteria of displacement, that would be about 10 tonnes fully loaded up for a long passage.
As I said earlier, if I could have anything I wanted I would have a catamaran designed with considerably more LOA for a given beam than is the norm as I think this would increase seaworthiness and comfort in heavy weather and higher latitudes. The smallest cat I would consider would be a Seawind 1000. I have been very impressed at the seaworthiness of these boats and their ability to cope with winds well over 50 knots without apparent difficulty.

Where Do You Sail?
I think we have all overlooked this vital question. When I write I am thinking of a circumnavigation largely in the trade-wind latitudes. I would no longer care to single-hand around the Horn in any boat and even the Straits of Magellan involve too much handling of lines ashore to make it appealing to a septuagenarian. If the venue were coastal sailing, say the US East Coast and Bahamas, a much smaller boat would do the job fine – perhaps a Maine Cat 30?

What About a Tri?
When single handing, the lack of space in a smaller trimaran is less of a drawback than it is when cruising with three generations of family aboard. Has anyone had sufficient experience with both cats and tris to give us a good comparison of the two types at the upper and lower end of the size spectrum? I wish we could get Chris White to chip in. I expect he has the most experience in both types of boat of anyone.

Cost:
Most of us will gravitate to the bottom end of the size spectrum because of cost but I think we should leave that out of the discussion of capabilities and limits. If we can develop a consensus of where the spectrum of acceptable boats lies, from the smallest coastal cruiser through the optimum blue water boat to the largest we can handle safely then each of us can shop around and decide where within that spectrum our budgets will fit. For my part, I would rather be puddling around the coast on a 20 foot Cape Cod catboat (Yup, a monohull!) than sitting in a rocking chair dreaming about a 10 tonne catamaran.

Steve

[rallyman1122]

I am currently exploring options regarding an Atlantic 57 to single-hand on occasion. My plan is to add crew for any extended passage making but for short jaunts I would single-hand. My desire for the speed and performance of the Atlantic 57 may be out weighed by the practicality and ease of handling of the Atlantic 48.

I am considering the Atlantic series because of the safety of the front cockpit for sail and line handling. I don't want to be out where a sudden wave or a rapid pitch change of the deck can catch me unaware. I also like the fact that when weather is bad, staying inside to handle the boat will keep me fresher than being out in the bad weather. There is also the factor the Chris White is actively involved in every build and having the designer involved cant be a bad thing.

I would not consider such a large cat if I were looking at something with a rear steering station but on the Atlantic's I am hoping the design will allow me to have a larger boat.

[davidbains]

The original question is slightly odd in that a singlehander does not need a very large boat!! Singlehanding my tri is fairly easy from a relatively small cockpit. Fitting a remote helm control for the windlass has transformed anchoring, which is always the easiest way to park when singlehanded.

[mobydick]

With 'handling the sails' I would include being able to manhandle them around, not just raise, lower and reef them.

So, when taking a sail down, bagging and carrying it - for taking ashore for inspection/repair, stowing below decks when a big storm is due or even just getting it out of the way when a halyard breaks etc.

I can do that (just) on an 11m cat.

MD

[imagine2frolic]

Good luck with that front cockpit when the bows are taking on waves. Don't get me wrong about Mr. White's design. He is one of the best. Sooner or later you will need to add another reef, adjust the head sail, or trim the sails, because of directional change. That means out in the cockpit, the timing of opening, and closing the entrance to the cockpit. It will be rare, but it will be if you decide to cruise.

I can manage the boat from inside at my nav station. The house is there to protect me when it's blowing stink, and I need to tend to the sails. Would I love a forward cockpit? I sure would, but I would want my lines lead aft. We do cheat. We take folding lawn chairs forward, and or the hammock on nice sails. My favorite spot being on one of the bows, or crossbeam

To the original question. Imagine is 46ft, and we can't fill the storage. It is Melanie & I 99% of the time, so we use less than half the boat. I would like more waterline for the sake of speed, comfort, and not room.

I could see 14 more feet. I would stick with a cutter rig, but most likely add a mizzen to reduce the main. Then again my empty pockets remind this is all fantasy for me. Imagine is paid for, so we will just have to make do.......i2f

[djeeke]

Steve, are you trying to confuse us ?

The original question posed was “What is the largest size multihull that you would consider single-handing on a major voyage?”

We, me included in an earlier post, have veered away from the original question posed on this thread which was, “What is the size of the largest multihull you would single-hand?”

You're doing a great job at it as this is two different ballgames

I don't let budget answer the question...
(I just mentioned this helps me as I won't struggle on this, I won't ever own a big boat for a major voyage...)

On the first question, I said for me a 40ft would do.

On the second question, I mentioned I've been on a 47ft Leopard...
I still remember the skipper wanting to sail on Genoa alone and was reluctant (with a crew of 5) to raise his mainsail (power winches)...
But don't worry, we raised the mainsail ... He never agreed on flying the Spinaker though, I still wonder why he had one on board ...

I have sailed the boat, singlehanded at some times (rest of the crew doing other stuff) and for passagemaking indeed bigger is nicer.

So I know I can singlehand it, (thanks to the power winches and remote windlass control) ) so I guess on that I would say max around 50 ft but for a major voyage, no thanks !
And I would appreciate some assistance on dock when docking such a boat.


On the other side of the spectrum, I think we all know Rory McDougall...
He circumnavigated in his Wharram Tiki 21:



Just thought it was funny to mention this here

:

[FSMike]

There will probably be almost as many answers as respondents to this question. I've singlehanded our 45' cat a time or two, including flying the spinnaker, but only on daysails. We don't have any electric winches, but at age 65 I am threatening to purchase one. I don't think it would be a problem to take a voyage on it if so inclined, but for just putzing around the Bahamas about 30-35 feet would be easier.
Then you've got super sailors like Alain Colas, who single handed the 236 foot four masted monohull Club Med in one of the OSTAR races. He did have what passed for hi tech help in those days (1976?).
I think with the mechanical aids available now the average skilled sailor can solo much larger vessels than in the past.
As far as docking/close quarter maneuvering etc., I don't think it's that much of a problem. Can you put a 30 footer in a 35 foot space? Nobody's going to ask you to put a 70 footer in a 75 foot space, more likely 85 feet. When you plan to operate in close quarters, adjust your idea of the needed space accordingly. I also have found that the larger vessels usually produce more help on the dock.

[timbenner]

Just reviewed the Atlantic 57, 48 and 42. Looks like a fast boat, but I won't want the forward outside helm. Looks like you would get very wet there. An aft elevated helm, protected by the salon and dodger, makes life much dryer and pleasant. I've sailed on a Gunboat, with the forward helm, but feel that visibility and weather protection is much better under a bimini, elevated above the salon top. Elevation is key to spotting obstacles under water. Galley down is not very convenient for distributing food. The cook is isolated, apart from the action, not to speak of NO light and visibility. I think that Atlantic really "missed the boat" with their cockpit or lack of one. On most cats, the cockpit is the perfect social gathering space. I was surprised that the 42 didn't have one and the others were weak. But, it looked like a very fast boat!

Tim Benner
Lagoon 380
I Dream of Jeanne

[BigCat]

Depends on the gear. Most answers assume the Marconi rig. If you insist on the Marconi rig, the smaller the better. With a rig designed from scratch to be easily handled without attaching any expensive, breakable gadgets to it, such as the junk rig or my wingsail / junk hybrid, I'd handle 65', if it had good quality, amply sized gear such as a good autopilot like WH and a good anchor windlass like a huge Maxwell. Racers like gear like the Marconi rig because it's a challenge to handle it, and that makes the whole experience more sporting. As far as I am concerned, the sea gives enough challenges without giving it any help, but then I'm not a young, fit racer with a boatful of crew to keep occupied.

[BigCat]

On the other side of the spectrum, I think we all know Rory McDougall...
He circumnavigated in his Wharram Tiki 21:



Just thought it was funny to mention this here

[/QUOTE]

Sadly, I had a friend disappear between New Zealand and Australia on one of those. His name was Shawn Blanchford, and the boat was the Tanya. This was a long time ago, in 1977. I suspect a huge storm pried his hulls apart, but that's just guesswork.

[BigCat]

"Has anyone had sufficient experience with both cats and tris to give us a good comparison of the two types at the upper and lower end of the size spectrum? I wish we could get Chris White to chip in. I expect he has the most experience in both types of boat of anyone."

Here's a couple I know about from my reading, not from first hand knowledge - the windward float hits wave tops and this generates spray that makes them wet, and if designed for speed, the floats are raised slightly from the water and so the boat rocks from side to side in a very unsettling way at anchor.

[Tabs]

Sorry to hear about the loss of your friend, Big Cat, but he can't have been sailing a Tiki. The Tiki 21 was designed in 1982 for the cruising World design competition.
His boat was likely to have been a bigger, earlier Wharram design such as the 27' Tane or 28' Tanenui. Both good designs with excellent track records, but good design is only one part of the problem - good building and good maintenance are just as important. Early home build Wharrams varied from exqusite works of art to bodged lash-ups using the cheapest possible materials. Having said all that, even the best built boat, sailed by the most competent sailor, can be unlucky.
"Cookie", Rory's Tiki 21, was built on a pair of my glassfibre hulls and is still going strong. Watch out for this year's Jester Challenge Transatlantic Race!
I've just noticed that Bob Beggs is also in the Jester race, Bob sailed one of my glassfibre Tiki 26s in the '92 Transatlantic, the year after Rory set off. This time Bob's sailing a small Dazcat, it will be interesting to see how his time compares with the 28 days on the Tiki.

[BigCat]

Sorry to hear about the loss of your friend, Big Cat, but he can't have been sailing a Tiki. The Tiki 21 was designed in 1982 for the cruising World design competition.
His boat was likely to have been a bigger, earlier Wharram design such as the 27' Tane or 28' Tanenui. Both good designs with excellent track records, but good design is only one part of the problem - good building and good maintenance are just as important. Early home build Wharrams varied from exqusite works of art to bodged lash-ups using the cheapest possible materials. Having said all that, even the best built boat, sailed by the most competent sailor, can be unlucky.
"Cookie", Rory's Tiki 21, was built on a pair of my glassfibre hulls and is still going strong. Watch out for this year's Jester Challenge Transatlantic Race!
I've just noticed that Bob Beggs is also in the Jester race, Bob sailed one of my glassfibre Tiki 26s in the '92 Transatlantic, the year after Rory set off. This time Bob's sailing a small Dazcat, it will be interesting to see how his time compares with the 28 days on the Tiki.

Sean's boat was a small Wharram, but it's true that I don't now the exact model. It had about as much interior as 4 coffins. I towed him out of the harbor, and that night, contrary to the weather forecast, we were hit by a huge storm. I was nearly turned over in my 34' monohull, and so we turned to run. Sean was never heard of again. I don't know if Wharram has changed the way that he holds the connector beams to the hulls, but in those days, the arrangement was quite flimsy, and consisted of some small metal straps that held the beams against a stack of cut up tire pieces. I didn't like the looks of it. Six months earlier, another Wharram, this one a fifty odd footer named "I love you too" disappeared between Tonga and NZ. A cyclone may have gotten it.

[Sandy Daugherty]

Short sails, long waterline, two engines. Light enough to get away with an anchor I can hold with one hand. Economical enough to go 500 miles on one dinghy-load of fuel and groceries. Big enough to stand up in, big enough to lay down in, and low enough to see over the cabin top.

Light enough to push off a dock, heavy enough to tack, stable enough to stay on course all day with one battery for the autopilot.

Pretty enough to not be chased out of a marina, easy enough to maintain that chores don't grow moss. Ergonomic enough that I can put a hand anywhere inside and see what I'm doing. Warm enough to live on in the winter, cool enough to live on in the summer. A good place to sit and read. A galley with everything in reach and nothing in the way.

Easy to board from a dock or a dinghy, bow in or out, and easy to get from the helm to the bow and back without acrobatics.

Steps you can go down face first, and things to hold on to every where.

Faster than greased lightning and sedate as a houseboat mired in mud. A place to hang the good suit, and another for the wetsuit, the rainsuit and the oilys. A dry place for the grits and a cold place; no make that a big real cold place for, er, medicine....

That's all. Simple.

[solarbri]

Short sails, long waterline, two engines. Light enough to get away with an anchor I can hold with one hand. Economical enough to go 500 miles on one dinghy-load of fuel and groceries. Big enough to stand up in, big enough to lay down in, and low enough to see over the cabin top.

Light enough to push off a dock, heavy enough to tack, stable enough to stay on course all day with one battery for the autopilot.

Pretty enough to not be chased out of a marina, easy enough to maintain that chores don't grow moss. Ergonomic enough that I can put a hand anywhere inside and see what I'm doing. Warm enough to live on in the winter, cool enough to live on in the summer. A good place to sit and read. A galley with everything in reach and nothing in the way.

Easy to board from a dock or a dinghy, bow in or out, and easy to get from the helm to the bow and back without acrobatics.

Steps you can go down face first, and things to hold on to every where.

Faster than greased lightning and sedate as a houseboat mired in mud. A place to hang the good suit, and another for the wetsuit, the rainsuit and the oilys. A dry place for the grits and a cold place; no make that a big real cold place for, er, medicine....

That's all. Simple.

Nice. Very Nice.

[multihullsailor6]

Short sails, long waterline, two engines. Light enough to get away with an anchor I can hold with one hand. Economical enough to go 500 miles on one dinghy-load of fuel and groceries. Big enough to stand up in, big enough to lay down in, and low enough to see over the cabin top.

Light enough to push off a dock, heavy enough to tack, stable enough to stay on course all day with one battery for the autopilot.

Pretty enough to not be chased out of a marina, easy enough to maintain that chores don't grow moss. Ergonomic enough that I can put a hand anywhere inside and see what I'm doing. Warm enough to live on in the winter, cool enough to live on in the summer. A good place to sit and read. A galley with everything in reach and nothing in the way.

Easy to board from a dock or a dinghy, bow in or out, and easy to get from the helm to the bow and back without acrobatics.

Steps you can go down face first, and things to hold on to every where.

Faster than greased lightning and sedate as a houseboat mired in mud. A place to hang the good suit, and another for the wetsuit, the rainsuit and the oilys. A dry place for the grits and a cold place; no make that a big real cold place for, er, medicine....

That's all. Simple.

Sandy,

Any specific boat fit these well defined requirements of yours?

[AmyTom]

Of course, a PDQ.

[multihullsailor6]

Of course, a PDQ.

I'd go for a 15m Harryproa.

But let's see what Sandy has is mind for us?