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Thread: 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

  1. #1
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    Default 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

    FYI,

    Found this inserted in the CF thread I mentioned elsewhere. I think the monomaran sailors are all jumping up and down over there, but figured our Forum members would want to know the details to add to our own knowledge base.

    http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...BAN41E9JJ6.DTL

    Later post stated it was a PDQ 32 but no details were provided, so if anyone knows the particulars please share.

    Marshall
    "People sail for fun and no one has yet convinced me that it's more fun to go slow than it is to go fast." -- Dick Newick

  2. #2
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    Default Re: 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

    Its not a monomaran, its a halfboat

  3. #3
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    Default Re: 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

    Quote Originally Posted by searenitysail View Post
    FYI,

    Found this inserted in the CF thread I mentioned elsewhere. I think the monomaran sailors are all jumping up and down over there,
    Trouble is the 'Monomaran' or 'Half-a-boat' owners forget that when theirs capsize they normally sink, therefore, and a BIG therefore they never make the news, COZ we don't hear about it COZ there are NO survivors :

    Wish I hadn't have been banned from CF, coz I would love to have said this and wound up some of their delinquent members such as the twat JOLI, Ex-Calif and FrankZ.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

    Careful Ian, did you see it was a 32' cat that flipped?

    What size is yours again?

    John
    "The floggings will continue until morale improves"!

  5. #5
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    Default Re: 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

    Quote Originally Posted by jkd View Post
    Careful Ian, did you see it was a 32' cat that flipped?

    What size is yours again?

    John
    Not mine, she is only 31 feet 10 inches (and they think it is a PDQ a considerably less beam) and it is still waiting for the engine head valve seats, should have been finished today but no news so I will be on that phone tomorrow and it will be RED HOT

    I WANT TO PLAY, AND PLAY NOW

  6. #6
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    Default Re: 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

    I WANT TO PLAY, AND PLAY NOW
    So do I
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

  7. #7

    Default Re: 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

    It would appear to me that smaller and lighter cats are easier to flip.

    It would be interesting to see statistics on the size and beam of cruising cats that have wind induced capsize or wave induced capsize. I wonder if anyone has that data?

    Intuitively, I feel that bigger is safer, but I may be wrong.

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    Default Re: 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxingout View Post
    Intuitively, I feel that bigger is safer, but I may be wrong.
    If one simply extends the discussion down to the Hobie level, an inverse relationship between size and propensity to flip (the bigger the vessel, the less likely to flip) seems pretty compelling.

    ireaney...are you really banned from CF?!? How'd you mange to do that?? If so and if it makes you feel any better, someone we know pretty well (under the 'handle' D&D!) pointed out on that CF thread that the troubled cat in that discussion floated thus saving her crew...and mono's (half-boats) are much more likely to sink. Then another of our countrymen -- Go the Aussies! -- volunteered that he "just finished reading three coronial files on deaths on sunken monos". So perhaps the cats are being well defended over there in your absence.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

    I would agree to a point but I think there are a lot of factors that would affecting all sizes, naturally a heavier and bigger boat will handle larger seas much easier.

    My cat is 32 feet long with a 17.5 foot beam, there are bigger prouts with beams that are 3 feet less than mine, so you have a stability factor there, it will depend a lot on built in buoyancy, plus it depends on whether the person sailing it has too much sail up etc.

    My little boat according to the stats can sail with full sail up to 29knts of wind (I wouldn't, because I am a coward) but then this is without taking the sea state into account.

    At the end of the day always be cautious and reef, heave to, sea anchor etc to the conditions and your ability, I suppose
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxingout View Post
    It would appear to me that smaller and lighter cats are easier to flip.

    It would be interesting to see statistics on the size and beam of cruising cats that have wind induced capsize or wave induced capsize. I wonder if anyone has that data?

    Intuitively, I feel that bigger is safer, but I may be wrong.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

    Quote Originally Posted by D&D View Post
    ireaney...are you really banned from CF?!? How'd you mange to do that?? If so and if it makes you feel any better, someone we know pretty well (under the 'handle' D&D!) pointed out on that CF thread that the troubled cat in that discussion floated thus saving her crew...and mono's (half-boats) are much more likely to sink. Then another of our countrymen -- Go the Aussies! -- volunteered that he "just finished reading three coronial files on deaths on sunken monos". So perhaps the cats are being well defended over there in your absence.
    Yes, as is Paul, banned 3 times, different names, first time pushed for answers from a lying manufacturer a bit too hard, second time directly confronted 2 moderators accusing them of being puppets and condoning lying and ultimately Nazis, third time for winding up the mono section as a gay lawyer with a hairdresser boyfriend called Sebastian

    Anyway I am glad that you are there backing up the multihulls.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

    Quote Originally Posted by ireaney View Post
    pushed for answers from a lying manufacturer a bit too hard...directly confronted 2 moderators accusing them of being puppets and condoning lying and ultimately Nazis...winding up the mono section as a gay lawyer with a hairdresser boyfriend called Sebastian
    TOO GOOD!

    WHAT A GREAT EXAMPLE TO US ALL!!

  12. #12
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    Default Re: 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

    Basically the point I was trying to make over there was that we are all adults and within reason should be able to say what we like, but I felt like I was back at school and the School Prefects kept telling me off, so I just let rip, and thanks to Paul we can all be grown up over here (maybe some of us can be a little immature at times, hey ho let's also have some fun), and again say what we like (within reason).
    Quote Originally Posted by D&D View Post
    TOO GOOD!

    WHAT A GREAT EXAMPLE TO US ALL!!

  13. #13
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    Default Re: 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

    Quote Originally Posted by ireaney View Post
    we are all adults and within reason should be able to say what we like...and thanks to Paul we can all be grown up over here (maybe some of us can be a little immature at times, hey ho let's also have some fun), and again say what we like (within reason).
    Hear! Hear!

    It was our pleasure to meet Paul in Cape Town earlier this year and thank him personally for his efforts with this Forum.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

    I have a question for our American members on the forum. This comes from comments by an American friend who sails monos, but knows a bit about cats.

    His theory is that sailing conditions on the east side of USA are generally fairly benign. Seas of 4ft are considered quite large. So people want their 'cruising cats' powered up with larger rigs so as to enjoy the stability and the easy sailing. Hence the current trend for ever bigger rigs, and boats that are more 'cruiser/racer' in concept.

    When these over rigged cats are used on parts of the west coast they find conditions are much rougher. Then they get shown up as being more prone to trouble, including capsizing, than properly rigged cats.

    Is this a general view?

    Do you think he has a good point?

    If so, it has relevance to people buying on the used boat market. If it was an east coast cat, be careful what you buy. Or something like that.

    True/false

    Mike
    Wrong no man, write no woman.

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    Default Re: 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

    The 10m Catalac was produced originally with an optional additional 3 ft on the mast for boats destined for more benign conditions.

    British built cats (Catalacs and prouts in particular) were built with small sail plans so that they were safer in bad conditions. Tom Lack offered a substantial sum of money for the first person to be able to prove that they had flown a hull in a Catalac.

    Of course the downside of this is that light winds meant turning on the engines.
    Insanity is continuing to do the same thing and expecting different results

  16. #16

    Default Re: 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

    The early PDQ32 models were built with a 45 foot mast height. Later models were changed to 49 ft. mast to improve light air performance.
    The boat is fairly light and will sail in the double digits when wind speeds get up over 15 knots. As with any smaller boat performance is affected more by sea / wave conditions.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

    Quote Originally Posted by dmmbruce View Post
    I have a question for our American members on the forum. This comes from comments by an American friend who sails monos, but knows a bit about cats.

    His theory is that sailing conditions on the east side of USA are generally fairly benign. Seas of 4ft are considered quite large. So people want their 'cruising cats' powered up with larger rigs so as to enjoy the stability and the easy sailing. Hence the current trend for ever bigger rigs, and boats that are more 'cruiser/racer' in concept.


    True/false

    Mike
    Could be some validity to this. There are certainly more places to duck into on the east coast to get out of the ocean if you need to and those brought up sailing the Chesapeake Bay are use to mostly shorter waves (but they tend to be steeper, which is probably worse for a cat to get sideways with). There are some pretty nasty places also (Cape Hatteras etc.), but with the right stick height it is easy to do the ICW and avoid most of these.
    I think a large part of the issue is that a lot of people get a cat and expect to see double digit speeds all the time so they order the biggest sail plan available for a boat or start adding flat top mains and code zero's that the boat and/or rig was not designed for and end up pushing the boat closer to the edge than they realize.
    Same old same old..... without the feedback from heeling over some don't adjust to the boat fast enough.

    John
    "The floggings will continue until morale improves"!

  18. #18
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    Default Re: 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

    JKD that's interesting, - thank-you.

    Might it have any relevance to the west coast capsize do you think?

    Mike
    Wrong no man, write no woman.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

    Quote Originally Posted by jkd View Post
    end up pushing the boat closer to the edge than they realize.
    Same old same old..... without the feedback from heeling over some don't adjust to the boat fast enough.
    Well (and succintly) put jkd!

    dmmbruce...the above would pretty well cover most any wind-induced capsize...and wave-induced capsize would be a combination of the above and gaps in the skill set of the crew on board to respond appropriately to the conditions

  20. #20
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    Default Re: 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

    I'm not sure it was a capsize at all. The newspaper report which Zero to Cruising published on his blog mentioned that the winds were 45 knots. It's possible that the boat ended upside down because of pitchpoling, rather than capsize. Reporters don't know the difference, and often things happen so fast that sailors can't tell, either! There is no mention of the use of a drogue or any other drag device to slow the boat. They did mention trying to reduce sail.

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