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Thread: Lagoon 37 Owners & Guest

  1. #1
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    Default Lagoon 37 Owners & Guest

    I am a member of a small group of Lagoon 37 owners e-mail group. We bounce questions about our boats off each other, and help out when needed.

    I am going to try and get them to post the questions here and see if anyone else can add to helping us solve the problems we encounter.

    Thank You



    Dan
    Last edited by S/V Magic Carpet; 18th September 2011 at 08:40 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Lagoon 37 Owners & Guest

    Here is one of the latest.

    Has anyone heard of our boats have water intrusion problem? A surveyor mentioned that it is common with our boats and I have never heard of it being a problem

    --
    Fair Winds and Following Seas
    Denny & Diane


    Do you think he was talking about wet bilges all the time?
    Liz and Alan Johnson

    Maybe at the door?
    Mike Brewer

    Well, the main salon ports (the big ones) usually eventually leak, but as for intrusion into the balsa - I've not heard a word about it.

    I did however work on a TPI 42 a couple of years ago that had a water problem at the forward main bulkhead on the starboard side - a leak at the hull to deck joint had delaminated partially that bulkhead.


    Brad


    I have a soft spot in my cockpit floor. The port side table has been removed and the holes leak. Just another project to the list.
    The big main cabin windows just plain ol SUCK OUT LOUD. That has got to be the worse design I've ever seen on a boat. I replaced the old plexiglass with new lexan . I started out going with one piece over all three windows. The compound curves would pull the # 10 screws right out of the glass. So I cut them into three pieces and that helped a little, but it is now pulling the lamiated sections of glass away from the core and cracking the paint job on the window sills. All in less than a year. So much for buying that lexan in a 10' x 4' sheet for the one window thingy.
    Next is to install T-nuts on the inside with machine screws. If that doesnt work. I'm going to just glass over them and install regular ports/windows. I am about $1,500 and, and countless man hours into it. Did I mention that they just plain ol SUCK OUT LOUD?

    Dan
    S/V Mother Ocean

  3. #3

    Default Re: Lagoon 37 Owners & Guest

    As for Even Keel, the only intrusion I can't get through definitively is from the security hatches close to the water line. Every haul out, I got to "make a silicone seal" in complement to the original lewmar seal. I thought about adding handles to each side (left and right) of the hatch but it did'nt worked on a Lagon 380 , so....
    I crossed from Florida to Europe without intrusion but got some troubles in Med (short sea) where I had to redo the seal every week or so ! So as I want to come back to Carribbean and North America, I need to fix it before getting in nasty situation. I certainly go to fiberglass everything as I saw in the cruiser's forum.
    As for the rest of the boat, no intrusion. I really do maintain the big saloon windows's seals as leakage is common on many model (Fontaine Pajot, Privilège,...) that 's a very sensible point. I guess the texalines over the glass can make it more resistant to temperature and preserve sika from getting cooked, but it's just a guess.
    Otherwise, except for the underpowered M20 Perama that I keep because I don't wanna spend money for that, I'm very happy with the boat (I own her for more than 10 years and I was bored of the 3 precedent boat about 3 years max)

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Lagoon 37 Owners & Guest

    The problem on our boats is that TPI did not "rebate" any of the holes drilled to mount stuff. "Rebate" is when you drill the hole oversize, then route out additional balsa between the outer skin and inner skin. The hole is then filled with filled epoxy and after that sets the "real" hole is drilled. This does 2 things - it seals the balsa from any water intrusion if the sealant around the screw leaks and provides a compression cylinder so that when the screw/bolt is tightened the balsa is not crushed. On this forum I remember 2 boats haveing problems, one from the screws that hold the aft track for the tramp and the other for the bolts holding the steering turning sheaves under the helm. On the the large salon windows. I agree that they suck. They are compond curve and replacement acrylic has to be "bent" by heating over a mold. A few years back I talked to TPI and LAgoon had taken the molds back to France after production stopped in the US. There are a couple of companies in east coast FL that say they can duplicate compound curves. Probably expensive. I rebeded mine without removing them and are now leak free. What I did was to dig out under the acrylic then tape off and apply the sealant. You have to use the correct sealant. Go to the web site for Lewmar hatch repair by a company in the Northeast and on their website they say what kind of sealant to use with acrylic, silicone, etc eventually leaks again.

    Dave Hough on JilliQ headed for the Bahamas

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Lagoon 37 Owners & Guest

    On to another topic.

    Where do you keep your life raft? Mother Ocean's is mounted on the transom between the two hulls. It 's been a great location for it until now. I'm looking at making some dingy davits and it's in the way. It's in a hard fiberglass case on a stainless steel frame.
    Just trying to get some ideas.



    Dan

  6. #6

    Default Re: Lagoon 37 Owners & Guest

    Hoping to re-start this discussion on the Lagoon 37. I have been seriously considering buying a Lagoon 37 but these comments on the poorly designed windows and the lack of proper bedding of screws has me concerned. Most everything I've read hails the TPI construction as being first rate, but these issues make it sound like amateur hour. Should I look elsewhere?

    Jerry

  7. #7

    Default Re: Lagoon 37 Owners & Guest

    Another question. One of the boats I'm interested in (Lagoon 37 TPI) has some water intrusion into the core. Is the construction such that the individual blocks of balsa are sealed so that the water cannot go very far, or can the water freely travel through the balsa over long distances? In other words, how easy is it to repair? If the water can only travel a short distance, then it should be relatively easy to open up that area, let it dry out, and repair.

    Has anyone done this type of repair?

    Thanks
    Jerry

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Lagoon 37 Owners & Guest

    If the balsa was vacuum bagged,there's a good chance that all the interstices between the blocks are full of resin. If it was hand layup they're probably not. I once inspected a 10 metre Catalac where the drain holes in the forward bridgedeck lockers hadn't been sealed: the water had percolated as far as the cockpit and over 50% of the bridgedeck core was rotten! A moisture meter will give you a good idea how far the water has spread,.You can drill 3mm holes through the inner laminate in suspect areas and check the condition of the swarf (or mush!) that comes out. Use a short drill bit to prevent accidentally drilling right through! Seal drill holes in good areas with epoxy injections. Good luck!

  9. #9

    Default Re: Lagoon 37 Owners & Guest

    Quote Originally Posted by jwood1 View Post
    Hoping to re-start this discussion on the Lagoon 37. I have been seriously considering buying a Lagoon 37 but these comments on the poorly designed windows and the lack of proper bedding of screws has me concerned. Most everything I've read hails the TPI construction as being first rate, but these issues make it sound like amateur hour. Should I look elsewhere?

    Jerry

    Don't be scared, it's far away from a bad job and this was the best job at time. About big windows, new cats have exactly the same problem : too much of an area and adding screws isn't a solution. By the way, Even Keel never had this intrusion problem on big windows. Intrusion by the escape hatch isn't TPI's fault but Lewmar poorly design. I went with Custom GoÏot and everyhing's working fine now (I finally didn't want to fiberglass it because of the duty of theses "ESCAPE" hatches).
    About bedding of the screws, it concerns mainly what was added in the "commissioning" (bimini structure, blocks,...). Winches , rails are bedded in "fiberglass only" area. As for Even Keel, except for some specific screws (whelm blocks,...) it goes since 1994 with no prob even bedded in balsa core.
    I was thinking to buy a bigger one (you know, 43 catana or else) two years ago. Price wasn't an issue. I didn't find anything as well designed , well build and seaworthy that complies my everyday and "everysail" needs (I'm liveaboard too).
    Starting from 2000, quality of production boats is really getting poorer and designs seem to be only "marinas and smooth seas" oriented.
    All my Fontaine Pajot's or Catana's friends have already sold their cat and none of us went to buy a new same brand one ! Lagoon have desperately forgot what sea means, and SouthAf production is "whatever you want with no waranty as long as you pay".
    At a time I was thinking to go in Australia to look for some "custom made" but it takes time and researches a pain in the a.. for a Maurice Chevalier's speaking Frenchy in Aussie's territories.

    There's no perfect boat, but, to me, the Lagoon 37 deserves her very good reputation, and if I'd to choose now (and I had) I would do the same choice I did 14 years ago (and I did).

  10. #10

    Default Re: Lagoon 37 Owners & Guest

    Quote Originally Posted by Tabs View Post
    If the balsa was vacuum bagged,there's a good chance that all the interstices between the blocks are full of resin. If it was hand layup they're probably not. I once inspected a 10 metre Catalac where the drain holes in the forward bridgedeck lockers hadn't been sealed: the water had percolated as far as the cockpit and over 50% of the bridgedeck core was rotten! A moisture meter will give you a good idea how far the water has spread,.You can drill 3mm holes through the inner laminate in suspect areas and check the condition of the swarf (or mush!) that comes out. Use a short drill bit to prevent accidentally drilling right through! Seal drill holes in good areas with epoxy injections. Good luck!

    In the 90's TPI was the best (!?) and only (? ) yard able to do "infusion". That's why VPLP choosed TPI to build their first "small" lagoons series.
    So YES it' s vacuum bagged -but be careful as it has to be well done, cause if you don't put enough resin in your composite, vacuum or not, it's not gonna be a real mess after a while- and YES, it was a well done job.
    Once, I tried to "moisture-meter" the balsa core hull of Even Keel just to check it out. I've never find the way to do it. There was kinda "fiber", "wood", "large fiber" tunings, and so many differences in readings, I've never found out where was the truth. So I worked by comparison and found out nothing wrong. I've read a surveyor inspection on a Lagoon 37 where it's written down "the readings are subsequent of 1/8" of an inch glass" or better English writing .
    With that kind of composite (fiber and wood), what's the good tuning to have a good idea of the "main moisture state" ?

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Lagoon 37 Owners & Guest

    Just so there's no confusion. Infusion and vacuum bagged are NOT the same thing.

    Vacuum bagged is a hand layup, then vacuumed. Which means you have a better glass to resin ratio, and a better glass to core bond, than hand layup alone. Some of the resin will get pulled into the voids, but it will not necessarily fill them.

    Infusion means the glass was installed DRY then a bag and other consumables were put over the glass, vacuumed, then the resin was introduced. This will fill all the voids in the core.

    There are many people who use the terms interchangeably, which is a mistake.

    Cheers.
    Paul.
    Last edited by svquintana; 27th February 2014 at 06:19 PM.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Lagoon 37 Owners & Guest

    I believe all the TPI Lagoons (42, 37, 35ccc) were built using the SCRIMP infusion process, which TPI owns the patent to.

    An overview of the SCRIMP process:
    http://www.tpicomposites.com/media/5...rview_2005.pdf

    Marshall
    "People sail for fun and no one has yet convinced me that it's more fun to go slow than it is to go fast." -- Dick Newick

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Lagoon 37 Owners & Guest

    Once, I tried to "moisture-meter" the balsa core hull of Even Keel just to check it out. I've never find the way to do it. There was kinda "fiber", "wood", "large fiber" tunings, and so many differences in readings, I've never found out where was the truth. So I worked by comparison and found out nothing wrong. I've read a surveyor inspection on a Lagoon 37 where it's written down "the readings are subsequent of 1/8" of an inch glass" or better English writing .
    With that kind of composite (fiber and wood), what's the good tuning to have a good idea of the "main moisture state" ?
    In this instance you are using the moisture meter to check one area with another, so they are comparative readings you're taking, settings are not critical. (As long as you keep the same settings for each reading! )

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Lagoon 37 Owners & Guest

    We looked a 37 tpi in key largo , it had obvious rain water leaks and mildew everywere. I used a simple cheap moisture meter a d the readings were extremely high around several items bedded onto the deck and around a few hatches one of which led to a soft crunchy spot about 3'x2'. Jnless the boat was a steal or had been very well maintained I would be very cautious.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Lagoon 37 Owners & Guest

    Quote Originally Posted by searenitysail View Post
    I believe all the TPI Lagoons (42, 37, 35ccc) were built using the SCRIMP infusion process, which TPI owns the patent to.

    An overview of the SCRIMP process:
    http://www.tpicomposites.com/media/5...rview_2005.pdf

    Marshall
    What I'm still confused about is that a lot of other companies claim to use "vacuum bagging" of vinylester resin, e.g. the more recent Lagoon models. So why is the TPI regarded as superior? Is it really different from current vacuum bagging techniques? Inquiring minds want to know....

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Lagoon 37 Owners & Guest

    Quote Originally Posted by jwood1 View Post
    What I'm still confused about is that a lot of other companies claim to use "vacuum bagging" of vinylester resin, e.g. the more recent Lagoon models. So why is the TPI regarded as superior? Is it really different from current vacuum bagging techniques? Inquiring minds want to know....
    Have a look at post number 11 above and you will see.

    Mike
    Nothing works on an old boat, except the skipper.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Lagoon 37 Owners & Guest

    Ok, I think I understand the difference. Are the TPI boats the only ones that were built with the SCRIMP process?

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Lagoon 37 Owners & Guest

    The new lagoons appear to be infused, not just bagged. http://www.cata-lagoon.com/lagoon_ch...chnique_uk.php

    If it's infused, the voids will be filled. It's quite an expensive process, but it is less labour intensive than hand layup.

    I can't tell you what difference there is between the TPI lagoons, and the newer lagoons. All I can say is, infusion technology has progressed, not regressed, since the 90's.

    I think the difference has more to do with perception than anything else. In the 90's this was new technology, and we all thought it was "awesome", and that TPI was the best. That perception has, perhaps, stuck with the general point of view that TPI cats are the best, or at least better, than those that followed.

    Cheers all.
    Paul.
    Last edited by svquintana; 2nd March 2014 at 01:06 AM.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Lagoon 37 Owners & Guest

    Maybe this should be a new thread but it is Lagoon 37 specific so hope some of you may be able to help with some info. I am looking at repowering our L37 (Hull No. 39) with Yanmar 3YM30's in a couple of months. I know many of the L37's have already installed the 3GM or 3YM Yanmar's, and was looking for some feedback on things to look out for etc. What transmission/prop combination did you use?, which exhaust elbow did you go with (will the U type fit or is it too high?), any major issues with the installation such as engine mount positions?, did you use the existing prop shaft/strut?

    We will be doing this changeover in the Rio Dulce in Guatemala so may not have the same level of expertise available as in the US so would really appreciate any feedback/ advise.

    John

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Lagoon 37 Owners & Guest

    John,

    Many belong to this group, but you might also find some help by joining the Lagoon owners group in Yahoo groups if you don't get any response here.

    Marshall
    "People sail for fun and no one has yet convinced me that it's more fun to go slow than it is to go fast." -- Dick Newick

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