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Thread: seawind 24 hard decks

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Clearlake Shores, Texas

    Default Re: seawind 24 hard decks

    Thanks Zed,
    The Corecell was recycled bits, and was had pretty cheap. It was the cost of epoxy that ate up the budget.

    It's nice to see that there is a SW24 site that is getting some use. Hopefully more owners will find it and we can get the data base built up. I've collected a lot of info over the couple of years that I have had the boat, but It would be nice to to compare notes with other SW sailors.


  2. #42

    Default Re: seawind 24 hard decks

    I am learning from you guys, hoping to do do better. From my research, 6 mm marine ply is 20 lbs per sheet (4x8). It is nearly impossible to beat with the foam/glass composite, and easier to make and cheaper. Can not say how strong it is. Anybody direct experience?

  3. #43

    Default Re: seawind 24 hard decks

    You will have to be very careful with how you engineer 6mm ply decks, they will be quite wobbly if done incorrectly. You may need a spine (possibly 2!) as well as more cross members than I used & taken closer to the edge as well. Remember that they will be stiffer if the supporting members are cut with the grain @ 45 degrees and pay up for stiff plywood... the stuff I used was a little too soft IMO but I got away with it. You live and learn

    You may consider a light layer of glass top and bottom to help stiffen the structure, that may be easier than extra structure underneath.

    You may also need closer supports than I used, that is assuming that you are ditching the bolt rope extrusions.

    Another advantage of the angle brackets that I used is that you can rivet them from the inside giving a much neater finish in the cabin, if that sort of stuff worries you

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Clearlake Shores, Texas

    Default Re: seawind 24 hard decks

    Young Grumpy,
    Pound for pound it's hard to beat glassed foam. I can have a couple heavy guys (~600 lbs) stand on the deck with very little flex. One of the other issues I had with my original deck (1" marine ply) other than being hella heavy, was that it was spliced to make up the required 10 foot section, and in my case looked really bad and rotted. Zed's looks like a much better execution.

    As far as boat has aluminum angle bolted to the top of the hull flanges, and also has an aluminum lip bolted to the sides of the center console. This was installed by one of the previous owners, and if I was to do it aging I would try to get the deck up higher. I still haven't had a lot of sailing time on this boat, but I imagine I will get some wave slap.

    Keep us posted / photos as the build progresses.

    Attached Images Attached Images

  5. #45

    Default Re: seawind 24 hard decks

    The higher the better for the hard decks IMO however I find that the real problem when you get going QUICK is the irregular shape of the underside of the center console. It sends spray all directions and it always finds its way up past the decks. In heavy air sailing my boat is a little like sitting inside a front loading washing machine!

    If you had the time, money etc... replacing the whole deck and center console with a slightly higher (beam top level?) and more streamline effort in foam/glass or polycore/glass would be the thing to do. A console with a boat shaped bottom with a sealing hatch for the outboard in the up position would be ideal. You'd save a fair bit of weight as well, that center console is too heavy IMO! ---> but then you can easily spend too much on the old SW24's, after all they are CHEAP fun.

    1" decks!!!! Man, no wonder you replaced them!!! I had 1/2" and they where too heavy. The 9mm is acceptable but I would not go heavier, foam or polycore really is the go if it doesn't break the bank. I think 6mm ply would work but you'd need the best part 4 sheets by the time you have done all the fiddly bits. I used most all of 3 sheets of 9mm ---> you may even find that the extra structure you need to stiffen the 6mm largely negates the weight saving over 9mm. I dunno you'd have to work that one out!

    Plan carefully, 6mm is pushing the envelope , you don't want a pile of wasted material!

  6. #46

    Default Re: seawind 24 hard decks

    Just a thought... If you do go for 6mm ply, inducing a camber might be a way of getting a stiffer result without too much extra material.

  7. #47

    Default Re: seawind 24 hard decks

    Oh yeah... ~600lbs ---> HOLY POOP Batman! That is more than my whole crew weighs, no way my decks have been THAT stress tested. I doff my hat to that achievement, your decks are truly bullet proof!

  8. #48

    Default Re: seawind 24 hard decks

    AA, that center console!
    The only experience I have so far is to load/unload it, and it is way too heavy! It makes me think about rebuilding the whole thing in composite, but I am not sure I have the skills to pull it out.
    On the issues of spray, before getting my Seawind last week, I was researching the Woods' designs and considering building one of them. In the same type (under 30', no bridgedeck transportable cats) Richard Woods makes them with the center beam bigger and with the storage compartments. As a benefit, he says it is protecting the cockpit area from spray. (Like, his Merlin cat on youtube).

  9. #49

    Default Re: seawind 24 hard decks

    I put polycore decks on Sly Little Bear about 18 months ago and they are awesome. I was short of shed space to make them so I had the fibreglasser make them for me. The 12mm polycore was $90 for a 2400 x 1200 sheet (I bought a sheet to make some other stuff).

    I'll endeavour to post some photos. My SW 24 didn't come with a centre pod so I had to fashion a version and used 75 x 50 aluminium (x2) from the centre beam to the rear beam.

    On another note, have recently had a new Ferrari Mesh tramp made for the front and it is awesome.



  10. #50

    Default Re: seawind 24 hard decks

    I've got the feeling, there are some adjustment issues that are not obvious for me (my center console is on my patio, the hulls are on the trailer, connected for transportation). And, I do not have any hardware both on the hulls and on the console. To get it level, is there a couple of inches down on the console and some more up on the hulls?
    Last edited by YoungGrumpy; 21st August 2012 at 01:25 AM. Reason: typo

  11. #51

    Default Re: seawind 24 hard decks

    I'm not sure I understand you?! Are there no bolt rope holders on the hulls and center console?

  12. #52

    Default Re: seawind 24 hard decks

    Nope, clean gelcoated fiberglass and some holes to remind me there was something riveted/bolted.

  13. #53

    Default Re: seawind 24 hard decks

    Did you get any aluminum extrusions with the boat? They are identical to the ones on the forward tramp. There should be 4?!

    Regardless you don't need them, decktop should end up @ around the top level holes and level with the rear decks.

    2c FWIW.

  14. #54

    Default Re: seawind 24 hard decks

    Hi Trevor,

    Hi Trevor,

    I would love to see some photos of your Polycore decks. I'm thinking about going the same way for our SW24 'AlleyCat'. Do you know what kind of fiberglass cloth was used?


  15. #55

    Default Re: seawind 24 hard decks

    I think that the guy who owns "This Way Up" used epoxy and 600 GSM Biaxial Fiberglass Cloth.

    Edit... Now I remember! 600 GSM top and 400 GSM on the bottom! Biaxial... :-)
    Last edited by Zed; 11th September 2012 at 09:29 AM.

  16. #56

    Default Re: seawind 24 hard decks

    Hi Zed,

    You are spot on. I found this part of a thread from 'the other' forum on the Polycore site:

    Just an update on my polyprop cored deck replacement on my Seawind 24.
    I managed to beach the boat on Sunday and replace the rotting ply versions.
    It has worked much much better than I expected. The stiffness is way beyond my expectation.
    I bolted on 50mm x 3mm flat aluminium that slots into the original sail track for the tramps.
    I covered it in the same outdoor carpet from the original decks
    There is more flex in the central console than the decks. The result is it actually stiffened the console.
    One other unexpected benefit was that the deck no longer gets too hot to walk on as it did before (the sun is hot here in summer). This leads me to believe it may have some fantastic insulation properties
    Would I build a boat from it? In a flash!
    I'll post some pics after easter of the end result.

    G'day Tony
    What thickness Polycore did you use for your decks, and did you add any stiffening webs underneath?
    I spoke to the guy at Polycore in Q'land the other day,and he was very willing to advise... the price of the Polycore was only a little more than I was quoted for the same thickness sheet of marine ply - and a fraction of the weight. You'd have to factor in the weight of the interior f/g too, but you'd end up with a much lighter boat.

    As per earlier post(have a look at the first lot)
    Core is 15mm
    600db top 400db bottom
    4 x 34mm pvc tube half pipe glassed over with 400db for webbing.
    If I did it again I wouldn't do the webbing, no need.
    I only did it as insurance because the laminate was an educated guess
    There are some photos of it under vacume on the seawind picture area under "this way up"
    With a little forethought and planning, building a boat out of polycore may be faster and lighter than strip.
    My load test was to have two grown men jump up and down and see how much it would flex. It passed the test easily.
    The guy at polycore was great to me and easy to deal with. Best advice I can give is to try it yourself. Its cheap enough

  17. #57

    Default Re: seawind 24 hard decks

    Yup, that is the one! That forum is where I first learned about Polycore... A lot of good info went west with that dodgy old forum! Pity.

  18. #58

    Default Re: seawind 24 hard decks

    Hi Zed,

    Just reading into Tony's post (This Way Up) it seems that by his own admission he over-engineered the decks and would not add the webs next time. I also wondered why he used different glass to the top and bottom. Polycore advised me to use the same either side, otherwise you might get a pulling effect. I guess the webs help to avoid that and maybe he felt that 600gsm needed on the top to deal with the impact and wear from above.

    Since I'm upgrading from tramps to decks, and don't want to turn our cat into a dog, I feel I should try to keep the weight down as much as I can. The back tramps only weigh less than 3kg each, which I'm obviously not going to achieve with decks. So I would rather under-engineer first up and can always beef it up later if required.

    Polycore suggested that 15mm core and 400gsm should be strong enough. Such a deck would weigh about 10kg each, so I'm up 14kg. You suggested using 600gsm instead which would add another 5.6kg...

    I wondered what Trevor ended up with on his 12mm cores, afer all they were professionally made. Would 400gsm be possible? It would save 1.7kg compared to the 15mm core. Or would that be pushing the envelope too much?


  19. #59

    Default Re: seawind 24 hard decks

    I can't really say for sure if 400 gsm is OK. From memory the 600 gsm on top was to deal with "heel impact", obviously the top of the deck receives localized pressures from the crew running around so while it may be stiff enough with 400 gsm it may not prove to be durable enough. I was told that 600 gsm on foam is susceptible to local damage from crew thumping around.... but polycore is not foam! I would think it is much more durable when it comes to localized impact.

    I think I would risk going with the 400 gsm on the importers judgment. You will need 3 sheets and there will be extra so you can layup a test panel first. You could also install them unpainted for a while and if it all goes pear shaped you could add another laminate of a lighter cloth. Not ideal but it would solve the problem... if it is a problem that is.

    So yeah do the Ben Lexcen thing Ben's moto was if you didn't break it first time then it was too heavy. Apparently he spent a lot of time beefing things up just a little so they didn't break.... so the story goes!

    I didn't know they did 12mm, the last time I asked the choice was 8mm (non structural) or 15mm so the choice was obvious. A quick look at the polycore site and I see that they now do 8mm "high strength", I would be curious about how using that with some foam stringers would work out. At that thickness you can slot it into the mast beam for support at the front end.

    Don't forget to allow for the weight of the tracks that the tramp runs in, replacing them with lighter brackets is well worthwhile. I'm guessing, but I would say that there is an easy 10kg in the two tracks each side.... they are crazy heavy! IMO you could easily end up slightly lighter if you do the job well.

    2c worth!

  20. #60

    Default Re: seawind 24 hard decks

    Quote Originally Posted by Zed View Post
    Don't forget to allow for the weight of the tracks that the tramp runs in, replacing them with lighter brackets is well worthwhile. I'm guessing, but I would say that there is an easy 10kg in the two tracks each side.... they are crazy heavy! IMO you could easily end up slightly lighter if you do the job well.
    I wrote that wrong...

    ~2.5 Kg per track = 5 kg a side + 3kg for the tramp = ~ 7.5 to 8kg a side.

    10kg total track weight.

    BTW --> My 9mm ply decks are around the 20kg mark each and the boat carries that well, I would think that anywhere near the 10kg mark would be absolutely fine.
    Last edited by Zed; 12th September 2012 at 11:02 PM.

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