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Thread: Glue for keel to hull attachment

  1. #1

    Question Glue for keel to hull attachment

    Does anyone know what actual glue is recommended and or used by FP to secure the foam filled keels to the hull recepticles especially the Belize 43.
    And no I did not run aground but the landing seam at the join where the keel is attached to the hull is breached and allowing water ingress between the two parts. This has obviously been going on for a lengthy time so I am concerned at what if any damage might have been done to the bottom of the hull as it would not have had any recent protective coating applied.
    So if any who have had any experience in this area would care to comment that would be welcomed.
    Kind regards
    Wayne

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Stratford upon Avon
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    3,378

    Default Re: Glue for keel to hull attachment

    I'm sorry if this is too obvious, but have you asked FP?

    Or failing them, one of their main dealers?

    Mike
    Nothing works on an old boat, except the skipper.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Glue for keel to hull attachment

    Talking to them as we speak but I also value the input from the experienced cruisers here as well so I thank you for your suggestion.
    Hopefully some others will chime in as well.
    Kind regards
    Wayne

  4. #4

    Default Re: Glue for keel to hull attachment

    Thanks for the input guys. Just for the record I have now been advised by Fountaine Pajot to use urethane applied to the top of the keel moulding and the edge join. So sikaflex is the answer.
    Has anybody ever had to remove and replace the keel(s) on any of the FP range?
    Kind regards
    Wayne

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    Tampa Florida
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    888

    Default Re: Glue for keel to hull attachment

    Id use epoxy glue

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Totnes
    Posts
    332

    Default Re: Glue for keel to hull attachment

    I don't know how big the keels are on an FP, but I put some wood 'shoes' on the bottom of my boat so that it could sit on the beach without damaging the hull. The shoes are about 6" wide and 4" deep. I wanted no bolts through the bottom of the hull, and the possibility to replace the shoes if they were damaged.

    I used some 4200 by 3M. I was sticking the wood to gel coat, and they say this stuff has a slightly weaker bond than the bond between gel coat and fibreglass. That seemed suitable to me. I just glooped the mastic onto the wood and lifted it into place with a pallet truck. Been fine for the last couple of years, with a lot of sitting on the beach (often not as even as I'd hoped).

    If I had to remove the shoes, I'd use my Fein Multimaster to cut through the mastic.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Glue for keel to hull attachment

    Thanks georgetheleo I am still waiting on FPs further advice re polyurethene or epoxy but I hear what you say.
    Wayne

  8. #8

    Default Re: Glue for keel to hull attachment

    Quote Originally Posted by pir8ped View Post
    I don't know how big the keels are on an FP, but I put some wood 'shoes' on the bottom of my boat so that it could sit on the beach without damaging the hull. The shoes are about 6" wide and 4" deep. I wanted no bolts through the bottom of the hull, and the possibility to replace the shoes if they were damaged.

    I used some 4200 by 3M. I was sticking the wood to gel coat, and they say this stuff has a slightly weaker bond than the bond between gel coat and fibreglass. That seemed suitable to me. I just glooped the mastic onto the wood and lifted it into place with a pallet truck. Been fine for the last couple of years, with a lot of sitting on the beach (often not as even as I'd hoped).

    If I had to remove the shoes, I'd use my Fein Multimaster to cut through the mastic.
    That is good that the 3M 4200 has lasted the distance so thanks for the advice and probably worthy of consideration here. I have seen some photographs in another forum that are suggesting that apart from the edges I might need to be gluing foam in the keel to foam already in the keel box receptacle in the hull when re attaching??
    Maybe not as simple a job as I first thought.
    Wayne

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Walterboro, SC, USA
    Posts
    142

    Default Re: Glue for keel to hull attachment

    Do not use 5200. That is a break away keel. If you use 5200 it won't breakaway.

    Dan

  10. #10

    Default Re: Glue for keel to hull attachment

    Quote Originally Posted by S/V Magic Carpet View Post
    Do not use 5200. That is a break away keel. If you use 5200 it won't breakaway.

    Dan
    Thank you Magic Carpet, duly noted.
    Yes we would want it to work as initially designed if challenged.
    Kind regards
    Wayne

  11. #11

    Default Re: Glue for keel to hull attachment

    Quote Originally Posted by AussieWayne View Post
    Thank you Magic Carpet, duly noted.
    Yes we would want it to work as initially designed if challenged.
    Kind regards
    Wayne
    I had a similar problem with the seam at the hull/keel joint and I DID use 5200 to seal it. To me this is different than gluing the whole keel into the slot in the hull. That is a huge surface area. What we are talking about is maybe an inch or so deep crevice. I cannot imagine that much 5200 could hold the keel on in a situation where you would want it to break off.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Glue for keel to hull attachment

    Does ablative bottom paint stick to 5200?
    I ask because three years ago I too had a leak at the joint
    between the hull and keel was repaired using epoxy and cloth
    finishing off the joint with 5200. The issue I have is a greater amout
    of hard growth at the seam. Am hauling out this Wednesday to do bottom paint
    Any advice much appreciated.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Glue for keel to hull attachment

    Quote Originally Posted by victor View Post
    Does ablative bottom paint stick to 5200?
    I don't know about ablative bottom paint, but I doubt it. I have Coppercoat which did NOT stick to it, but I have not had any growth on it either.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Glue for keel to hull attachment

    We hauled out yesterday and without a doubt discovered
    bottom paint does not adhere to 5200 at least for the long term.
    It seems the best fix for a crack along the junction between hull and keel
    is glass cloth and epoxy followed by barrier coat.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    currently Columbia/Panama
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    352

    Default Re: Glue for keel to hull attachment

    Since the keel is meant to be sacrificial, I wouldn't glass and epoxy it. That may cause structural damage in a collision. Maybe a light layer of 6oz cloth with polyester over the seam, or just fair the seam with fairing compound instead of 5200. All you are attempting to do is provide a surface paint will stick to. No need for barrier coating - nothing here is going to suffer from osmosis.

    Curious that you had a leak between the hull and the keel - the keel socket should be closed off from the interior of the boat, and any water between the hull and keel would be inconsequential.

    Mark
    Mark Cole
    Manta 40 "Reach"
    www.svreach.com

  16. #16

    Default Re: Glue for keel to hull attachment

    Never had a leak into the hull. There was water leaking into the keel.
    And yes the junction is not structural. The take is repair should be done
    has it was when built.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Glue for keel to hull attachment

    I often hear that the keel is sacrificial. Is it really? Has anyone ever lost one? Or know of one being lost? And if you lost one on say a 1995 FP, could you buy a replacement? It really sounds more like marketing, or folklore, than a feal benefit.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Glue for keel to hull attachment

    Quote Originally Posted by S/V Magic Carpet View Post
    Do not use 5200. That is a break away keel. If you use 5200 it won't breakaway.

    Dan
    Thanks for the tip, Dan. I also had this impression when considering it.
    _________________________________________
    Dumitru from Used forklifts

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    South Coast UK
    Posts
    18

    Default Re: Glue for keel to hull attachment

    FP are correct to use 1 part polyurathane, they have been doing that since the 80s without problems so why would you change?. Epoxy would mean you could never get the keel stub out of the box should you need to replace it. The Keel is sacrificial by breaking off at the hull joint leaving the keel box intact. Its a really neat design which allows a keel to be replaced if damaged without consequential damage to the hull and breaching the watertight integrity and its has stood the test of time
    Getting the broken stub out requires a long hacksaw blade or knife to sever the edge seal and then you break away the remaining piece of keel bit by bit if you cannot break it out intact. Our Maldives suffered from water between the keel and keel box resulting in water seeping from the joint when dried out and I just left it with no adverse effects for 10 years. I have also heard of one case where the keel dropped out in the water.

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