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Thread: Is anyone using Hydrogen or HHO in their engines?

  1. #61

    Default Re: Is anyone using Hydrogen or HHO in their engines?

    Hmm... the energy released by burning hydrogen - ie combining H with O2 can only be as much as the energy required to separate the H from the O2. Throw in the inevitable losses along the way.....

  2. #62

    Default Re: Is anyone using Hydrogen or HHO in their engines?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Banks View Post
    I do know of a trawler using a gas generator which feeds into the air intake of a diesel engine. The owner claims that it improves the fuel efficiency of the engine by about twenty five percent. he explains this as being due to the improved combustion characteristics of the fuel-gas mixture, which gets more power from the diesel fuel and a little power from the gas which offsets the power used to generate it. A kind of catalysis so to speak, and a big reduction in emissions and no unburned fuel residues. This is one big diesel engine, and the power generated by the Brown's gas alone in the combustion is less than it takes to produce it. It is the increased fuel efficiency which is producing the real savings and makes the installation worthwhile.
    Name of the vessel?
    Details of the mechanics?
    Formal analysis of perfomance?

  3. #63

    Default Conspiracy-powered cars!

    The internet consumes between 170 and 307GW*.
    56.2% of the internet is used up by conspiracy theorists**.

    Therefore, conspiracies carry an energy cost of between 95.54 and 172.534 giga watts!

    All we need to do is feed those wasted gigawatts into our cars for a substantial efficiency boost.

    Anyway got to go, a BP van with blacked out windows has just pulled up outside.

    * - http://www1.icsi.berkeley.edu/~barat...-hotnets11.pdf

    ** - a guess

  4. #64
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    Default Re: Is anyone using Hydrogen or HHO in their engines?

    Quote Originally Posted by 44C View Post
    Hmm... the energy released by burning hydrogen - ie combining H with O2 can only be as much as the energy required to separate the H from the O2. Throw in the inevitable losses along the way.....
    44C you might have fun reading up on www.afcenergy.com The AFC stands for Alkaline Fuel Cells. There is more about the Cells in Wikipedia but AFC are making it work commercially.

    Mike
    Nothing works on an old boat, except the skipper.

  5. #65
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    Default Re: Is anyone using Hydrogen or HHO in their engines?

    Quote Originally Posted by dmmbruce View Post
    .... but AFC are making it work commercially.
    Hmmmm, not exactly. And not at all compared to the topic of this thread - something for nothing. AFC's cells rely on hydrogen from another source. Their efficiency gains are all on the tail end - after the very inefficient process of isolating H2 has already been completed. So the net result is still the same: there is no free lunch. There's not even a cheap lunch.

    2 Hulls Dave

  6. #66

    Default Re: Is anyone using Hydrogen or HHO in their engines?

    Quote Originally Posted by dmmbruce View Post
    44C you might have fun reading up on www.afcenergy.com The AFC stands for Alkaline Fuel Cells. There is more about the Cells in Wikipedia but AFC are making it work commercially.

    Mike
    Are you joking? Even their own site rates their efficiency at 60%.

    So if they tried separating hydrogen from water, using only the power they generate from burning the hydrogen, they would be able to operate for precisely zero seconds!

    They are most likely using hydrogen from the most common source - crude oil. Many refineries simply burn hydrogen off as fuel gas. (Used to generate steam to run turbines and generate electricity, among other uses) It's non-condensable, so difficult and costly to store and transport efficiently. The plant I worked on did separate and store some hydrogen, which was sold to CIG, but only a fraction of what was available.

    It's amazing with all the education available, that people still believe in perpetual motion machines.

  7. #67

    Default Re: Is anyone using Hydrogen or HHO in their engines?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Banks View Post
    I do know of a trawler using a gas generator which feeds into the air intake of a diesel engine. The owner claims that it improves the fuel efficiency of the engine by about twenty five percent. he explains this as being due to the improved combustion characteristics of the fuel-gas mixture, which gets more power from the diesel fuel and a little power from the gas which offsets the power used to generate it. A kind of catalysis so to speak, and a big reduction in emissions and no unburned fuel residues. This is one big diesel engine, and the power generated by the Brown's gas alone in the combustion is less than it takes to produce it. It is the increased fuel efficiency which is producing the real savings and makes the installation worthwhile.
    A gas generator, or a gas cylinder? Many diesels inject propane to give a good boost in power and efficiency. But they don't MAKE the propane.

  8. #68
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    Default Re: Is anyone using Hydrogen or HHO in their engines?

    Gee 44C again I have to chide you for injecting Fact into the discussion, this is the internet, there is no place for reason here. Well perhaps a little reason, but only if there is enough reason to start a conspiracy theory.



    The best way to use less oil/petrol/ fissionable material is to use less power in the first place, and to have a highly efficient sailing machine, the more efficient the sailing boat the less fuel you will need.

  9. #69
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    Default Re: Is anyone using Hydrogen or HHO in their engines?

    Of course it is possible that someone is converting diesel into hydrogen, and then using it as the catalyst for cold fusion which is then powering the process, but I suspect that if someone had a working model of this, that there might have been a tiny bit of media interest if only to complain about using a cold fusion system on a boat without a risk analysis or a nuclear accident plan.








    Insanity is continuing to do the same thing and expecting different results

  10. #70
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    Default Re: Is anyone using Hydrogen or HHO in their engines?

    Lol this is a super secret being hidden by the oil companies!

    Its so underground, that I have personally met about 5 people who have tried it and there are thousands of references all over the internet, yet there has been zero evidence it works.

    With so much experimentation and documentation this myth has been busted. No need to even invoke a rational thought process using known laws of physics.

    Water is the waste product of hydrogen that has already been burnt! Water is not and can never be a fuel. Hydrogen is not even a fuel, its a energy storage medium (not very efficient one either) in that it requires a lot of energy to be put in just so you can get a much smaller amount back at a later time.

  11. #71

    Default Re: Is anyone using Hydrogen or HHO in their engines?

    The gas is generated electrolytically using stainless steel electrodes with a caustic soda solution pumped around and through the cells.

    The gas comes off as a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen (the constituents of water). This gas is not free of costs because the power to generate it comes from the rectified output of an engine driven alternator.

    This mix of gas passes through the surface of the electrolyte as bubbles and is collected over water--from whence it is fed into the air inlet of the engine. It is mixed with air, compressed and the diesel fuel is injected--but because the hydrogen and oxygen gas burns in the fuel mix it becomes steam, which is further heated in the combustion of the diesel fuel-air mix.

    So--some of the heat otherwise going out of the exhaust is retained and re-used in further heating the steam by-product of the hydrogen oxygen mixture generated. This steam further expands adding power to the piston stroke That is the theory of it--a sort of harvesting of exhaust heat and heating the steam of combustion with the hot diesel combustion products.

    It is also claimed that the moisture of the steam also facilitates combustion. This use of the Brown's gas is not to get sopmething for nothing as is implied--it is to get something by saving something--and that is better conversion of the fuel heat to pushing the pistons down.

    If the gas were used on its own without adding the diesel fuel the engine would not be able to run because not enough of it is produced to do that--and if it was enough--it would take more energy to produce it than would be gained from burning it. No one denies that aspect of it.

    The browns gas replaces the water injectors that used to be used by cabbies to get better fuel economy--without having to have tanks of water feeding down into the steam producer fastened to the exhaust manifold of the cab. When the engine was turned off poeple would forget about the water and it would get into the cylinders. This does not happen if the water is fed in as the constituents in Brown's gas. When the engine stops the alternator stops producing the electricity which drives the gas producing cells.
    Last edited by Mike Banks; 17th June 2014 at 02:44 PM.

  12. #72
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    Default Re: Is anyone using Hydrogen or HHO in their engines?



    This is hilarious!

    Burning regular fuel produces water anyway. Guess how much? 1 litre of fuel produces just under one litre of water! How many liters of water is consumed in a "HHO" unit for every litre of fuel burned? A couple of ml? haha

    http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc.../chem00787.htm

    The amount of water used for water injection is thousands of times larger than the puny amount of water cracked by these dodgy hydrogen converters!

    Also water injection is used for inhibiting detonation/pinging and does not give better mileage. And even it if did it would have nothing to do with hydrogen gas!


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_injection_(engine)


    This is so easy to test. Rig up one of these devices to a diesel engine revving at a given throttle load and therefore a given RPM. Hell even in neutral will do make the test more sensitive. Now turn the device on and take note if the revs go up because of the awesomeness of the "HHO" or if they go down because of the drag on the Alternator. The answer is the revs will go down!
    Last edited by dennisail; 18th June 2014 at 01:26 AM.

  13. #73
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    Default Re: Is anyone using Hydrogen or HHO in their engines?


  14. #74
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    Default Re: Is anyone using Hydrogen or HHO in their engines?

    While hydrogen is an excellent fuel source, and totally carbon-free
    False on both counts. Hydrogen is a fuel source in the same way a battery is fuel source (it its not fuel, its a way to store energy, but very inefficiently). Its only carbon free if carbon free energy is used to create it.

  15. #75
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    Default Re: Is anyone using Hydrogen or HHO in their engines?

    I agree dennisail.

    I was just interested in the notion that hydrogen can be made from ammonia, thought I'd chuck the link in for discussion and analysis. It's all good sport!

  16. #76

    Default Re: Is anyone using Hydrogen or HHO in their engines?

    Google, HHO generators, Australia, They sell the kits,

  17. #77
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    Default Re: Is anyone using Hydrogen or HHO in their engines?

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean_groover View Post
    I agree dennisail.

    I was just interested in the notion that hydrogen can be made from ammonia, thought I'd chuck the link in for discussion and analysis. It's all good sport!
    Yeah, it is interesting. Not sure it is going to help much.

  18. #78
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    Default Re: Is anyone using Hydrogen or HHO in their engines?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr B2 View Post
    Google, HHO generators, Australia, They sell the kits,
    Google herbal colonic irrigation. Someone will take your money for that too

  19. #79

    Default Re: Is anyone using Hydrogen or HHO in their engines?

    Well im surprised that a goverment that gets some of its wage from taxing oil found no improvement from hho. if you want to see a unit working contact me; phil

  20. #80
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    Default Re: Is anyone using Hydrogen or HHO in their engines?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Davies View Post
    Well im surprised that a goverment that gets some of its wage from taxing oil found no improvement from hho. if you want to see a unit working contact me; phil
    That's interesting. Can you tell us any more please?

    Mike
    Nothing works on an old boat, except the skipper.

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