New owner, old boat Seawind 24

[YoungGrumpy]

Well,
day before yesterday I brought my new toy home. Today I went over the boat and an assortment of boatparts and bits and pieces.
And I would appreciate some help from more experienced folks.
1. Hull to deck joint shows just some dried out sealant, no hardware. Is it like this on the other boats too? Should I just renew the glue? Or some bolting is in order?
2. Daggerboards are a bit different. One is just ply, another shows some glassing, and has a better shape. My guess is, I better make new, to be on the safe side, but that will take some time, so any advice is more than welcome
Well, thats what popped up on first glance.
And, does anybody know of some place with more detailed pictures of the Seawind 24?

Thanks a lot

[Zed]

A few guys have made deeper boards to aid windward performance, they where also talking about using a NACA foil profile. Apparently much better than the original. NACA0009 seems to be considered a good one! Planform seems to be the thing to concentrate on, you'd need to research that one!

https://www.google.com/search?q=NACA...w=1670&bih=927

I have a few pics. What exactly do you need to see?

[James Val Jackson]

A few guys have made deeper boards to aid windward performance, they where also talking about using a NACA foil profile. Apparently much better than the original. NACA0009 seems to be considered a good one! Planform seems to be the thing to concentrate on, you'd need to research that one!

https://www.google.com/search?q=NACA...w=1670&bih=927

I have a few pics. What exactly do you need to see?

Gooday cobber. THANKS for alerting all of us to such an informative web site. It's one of the most comprehensive 'foil section' sites - I've ever seen.

Thanks so much Zed - for sharing your experiences & trip with us.

Several of the 'quicks' in NZ are useing a 61-01?? (47 - I think) foil section - but for much quicker racing multihulls. Several of them are also involved in the AC 45's & AC 72 building program - so - not fools.

I prefer - 0012 - and have been playing with wing-masts & c/b's & rudder foils since the mid 60's.

Equally important as the 'foil-section' is the change of the section from the waterline to the tip - both in thickness % & the % aft of the leading edge. These small refinements are really 'extremely' beneficial to the success of the foils at all speeds & angles of attack. That's where the 'big' gains are to be made.

Do enjoy you lovely little cat - great value for dollar & a load of fun. There are only 1 or 2 up here in Far North Qld - that I've ever seen & I've spent 30 years working/playing/sailing on the waterfront. Ciao, james

[Zed]

Yeah, from what I read at the boat design forum the planform is a bigger issue than the section for an older machine like a SW24. I had never really considered top to tip profile, is there a rule of thumb or do you need a confuser to work these things out? Is a nice taper enough?

[James Val Jackson]

Yeah, from what I read at the boat design forum the planform is a bigger issue than the section for an older machine like a SW24. I had never really considered top to tip profile, is there a rule of thumb or do you need a confuser to work these things out? Is a nice taper enough?

Gooday 'OZ-Zed' In my factory - a few days ago (ha ha) when the molds were very new - we built several 24's & tried to make them strong & keep them light. Not 'light' by todays standards. Back then - we didn't take much notice of the c/b/s & rudder shapes - 20 years ago - up here in Cairns - I re-built 1 & built a complete 1 - rudder for a mate - as I was in the boat-building business.

Now we'd look at the sections & profiles & shudder. They really are not at all good. The improvements need a total re-think & unfortunately take both a lot of time & some money - however that said - they make a huge difference to the sailing ability of the boat as a whole.

It would be much quicker for me to ask you to come up with some figures of size & thickness & I could start from there. It's been a long time since I did the rudders so I've not got all the right figures in my head.

Several leading yacht designers - worked together in Sydney - back in the 60's & 70's & came up with a set of measurements - that in general were extremely advanced & I'm not aware that any big 'leaps of faith' in sections or profiles - have happened since then.

When looking at all the state-of-the-art multihulls at the top of the pile today - I don't notice much change in the - overall general direction - that the leders are going in. There has been much discussion about this subject in other forums - which you my care to look into - or you may choose to not be bothered & put it in the to difficult file at this time due to - wanting to spend your money - just sailing & enjoying your - great toy - rather than getting to involved in new c/b's & rudders. Your call - but do enjoy your sailing. ciao, james Do ask if you want more info.

[Zed]

Given what SW24's are I don't think it is worth a huge amount of time or effort but if you can improve on "ye old foils" easily by choosing a nice profile, approximating a nice planform and giving it all a bit of a taper and some more depth... well then why not. Sure it will not be "optimal" but then not much about a SW24 is If it aids windward performance then I'd give it a go! I have already put a fair bit more rake into the mast, that worked well. Now I have to add pelican and dolphin strikers... these things bend way too much! After that I might play with foils and a blade jib, the original head sails are a bit on the sucky side as I am sure you know! After all that maybe we have a boat that likes windward work a little more!!!

IMO the trick is doing it all on the cheap... at the end of the day they are still only cheap old warhorse's, no point in spending a motza on them.

[YoungGrumpy]

Zed,
I got that part about the daggerboards. Once I sort out everything else, I will start that project. Would you have any comments on the hull/deck joint?
And, what do you mean by repeating "it is not worth to put a lot of $$"? Are the hulls that bad, so it could not be improved by, say a better rig?
I get it, custom made carbon mast would be too much?.
One more thing, in the bows, front compartment has a round hole to the main cabin. What is the purpose? Or is it just missing a plug that should keep it closed?

[Zed]

YG,

The hull deck join (at least on Australian boats) looks to be a simple overlapping fit that was bogged together and then glassed on the inside. Over time and with knocks the bog seems to crack and give up a little but that appears to be more cosmetic than structural, it looks to me like the glass inside is the main element in the join.

I have seen a SW24 that has had the external lip cut off and glassed and faired. It looked very slick!

If I had my boat in the yard I would turn it upside down and run a router around the join to clear out as much bog as I could. Then I would fill it with an epoxy bog.

When I say they are cheap fun I mean that down here a good SW24 will never get much more than 25K, many more sell in the low to mid teens and some have gone for much less. Just keep than in mind when you spend $$$ on them, it is so easy to over capitalize them Having said that if you do over spend just make sure you get your fun back out of it!

Are the hulls that bad... well not really but they are still an old design and are never going to match it with the newer boats. Even a new carbon rig would only make so much difference!

I was reading some guff on Chris Whites A57 last night, apparently they have asymmetrical centerboards and he claims no noticeable leeway to windward! Of course you would have to be lifting and dropping boards on every tack, a pain with the way SW24 cases are but an interesting idea for a cruiser that does long tacks. In my fits of madness I have thought about cutting the old cases out and making some better boards and cases that run down the inside of the hulls. I don't like leaning over the hull to get to those boards that much at all and I think they would work better closer to the upright position. 2c worth!

[Zed]

One more thing, in the bows, front compartment has a round hole to the main cabin. What is the purpose? Or is it just missing a plug that should keep it closed?

It is a crash compartment and that hole should be a standard 6" access port, so yeah it sounds like you are missing a cap. Your local chandler should be able to sort that one out for you!

[Zed]

http://hem.bredband.net/b262106/Boat/dagger.html

[YoungGrumpy]

Thanks,
Very informative reading, bit too much math for my level of education...

but, what are "pelican and dolphin strikers"? And what exactly are they doing?

[Zed]

Basically the same device, the dolphin striker points down under main beam and the pelican striker points up over the forward beam. They stop beam flex and the SW24 has neither and needs both! The beams are strong enough but the flex in them allows...

1. The mast to fall forward, on a hard reach you may all of a sudden get a big dose of lee helm as the main beam bends, the rig slackens and the mast stands up. Most noticeable in gusty conditions and can be quite forceful not to mention scary and dangerous if you don't expect it. Raking the mast eases it and improves uphill performance but the ultimate solution is to stiffen the beam.

2. The fore-stay will flex the front beam and over time the underside holes for the inside beam bolt will crack. In extreme cases this has lead to the beam failing at that point. You can't weld it unless it is very minor and local and IF YOU DO weld it you need to stop the beam flex with a striker otherwise the welding will cause the beam to be MORE prone to cracking. If it is bad you need to sleeve the beam and rivet it aircraft style with maybe some polyurethane adhesive like sika.

Some guys have hammered a vertical web into the beams instead of strikers. If you plan to trail regularly this might be a more convenient stiffener but I think it is a heavier choice.

PS> Avoid welding aluminum if you can, it takes it out of temper and causes weak spots around the weld, this is why you will never see a welded mast repair. I know some masts have welded fittings but they weld them before anodizing and tempering, that works but you can't touch them once they are done.

[YoungGrumpy]

I see. So the main beam (the one on which the mast is stayed) is a bit weak for a bigger loads. Are there any issues with the two other beams? Have you seen total replacement instead of addition of strikers? Like, wider or thicker alum beam?

[Zed]

I see. So the main beam (the one on which the mast is stayed) is a bit weak for a bigger loads. Are there any issues with the two other beams? Have you seen total replacement instead of addition of strikers? Like, wider or thicker alum beam?

I wouldn't describe them as weak, in fact the beams are massive for what they have to do. Plenty strong enough, like everything on the SW24, but they are flexible which is the issue ---> think of them as over built and under engineered (strong <> stiff). The beams could be lighter and stiffer with the correct configuration.

So no, bigger beams are not the answer (or affordable!), strikers are the common solution to this problem, most cats have them.

Like I said the forward beam is prone to cracking, point 2, the rear beam is fine in my experience.

[YoungGrumpy]

I see.
On the topic of the propulsion, I will have to deal with the new sails later. What is the power you've got on your boat? Mine came with an old Envirude 9.9. Since I am not that well qualified as an outboard mechanic, I would rather get a new one. At first glance, 9.9 is kinda on the heavier side. However, new generation of 4-strokes weight difference between 6-8 and 9 HP is not that big.

[Zed]

6 to 15 hp seems to be the normal range. Mine is an 8hp Tohatsu with the ultra long shaft (~27"). The prop will still cavitate in chop, I would like to try a foil on it to see if that eases the cavitation.

https://www.whitworths.com.au/main_i...search123=foil

I have seen boats with 25hp!

The shaft length is probably the most important thing then the weight. If you can still legally get a good 2 stroke I would do it, they are much lighter. It kinda sounds like you are stuck with 4 strokes.

I reckon that the 6 to 9 hp range shares most of the major components in any given brand so yeah weight shouldn't vary that much.

Seriously if the Envirude 9.9 checks out OK I'd get it humming and stay with it. They where good motors!

PS> The secret to keeping them starting first time every time is---> at the end of the day pull the fuel line off and let all the fuel in the system run through. Let her idle until she stops!

[YoungGrumpy]

Actually, I've got an Yamaha 9.9 on my, should I say current boat (the one I am currently putting for sale). It is a bit less antique, I know it and I'd rather use that. But What it is with the 2-stroke 4 stroke preferences? Is it not the newer the better?

[Zed]

2 stroke is lighter and for a light boat like the SW24 they are just as good IMO. 4 stroke has it hands down for torque and in a heavy boat that counts big time. They can swing big high thrust props and that makes them a better motor for most yachts. However a SW24 is very light so a 2 stroke with a high thrust prop will be fine and the fact that they are many kilos lighter is more important. It also counts when you need to lug them around, not that you need to do it often if they are on the mooring but they are exposed in that center console and it is wise to stow them for the off season etc.

Aside from weight 4 stokes are a superior motor, if you motor a lot then I would go that way. Personally I sail off and onto the mooring and run the motor only when required or just to keep her ticking over so for me 2 stoke is the choice!

[Zed]

PS> Yammies are about the best motor you can buy in my experience, I have run a few brands commercially and they impressed the most. Having said that I have seen huge life out of small Evinrudes running tender services daily. If the Yammy has the shaft length I'd be temped to keep it!

[YoungGrumpy]

As I am working on the Shopping list for fitout,
could somebody share some numbers for the rig?
Halyard size (there are some rope/wire relics in the box), type preference.
Standing rigging size - as I am not sure I can justify the price difference for the synthetic, I will stay with the SS wire. I see there is an headstay, 2 shrouds. What else? Somebody had mentioned running backstays to the masthead, are this only for running the masthead spinnaker?
I hope I will figure out the sheets when I am ordering the sails. Other little bits and pieces of the rig and deck setup are disassembled /removed and /or in condition for replacement.
So some pictures of the mast/deck/rig setup would be very helpful.

thanks