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Thread: Lagoon 39

  1. #81
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    Me Germany / Boat Spain
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    332

    Default Re: Lagoon 39

    Nice boat but the interior looks like in one of these coccooning lifestyle magazines. The 39 looks more geared towards elderly distinguished people being sailed from one port in the Med to the other. Somehow I can't imagine me on that boat its just looks too nice for me.

    Our world is more like this:
    a bunch of cruising kids jumping around the table, leaving their dirty hands and feet prints everywhere and playing with the switchpanel (which is at the worst possible position). Me rushing in to turn the AP back on with sandy feet and fish blood at the hands, leaving my own hand prints everywhere. I bet the old 380 and 410 survived this punishment better.


    I also have the feeling that this one will not look too good after a few years in charter, unless they have significantly improved their woodworking. Hard edges tend to wear faster than round ones.

    Yes, I like that fat hulled lady but I will need to charter her first

  2. #82

    Default Re: Lagoon 39

    Magenta, thanks for posting your review and all those pictures.

    Lagoon do seem to have made good use of the space from what I can tell and they certainly fit a lot into a 39' cat. But I'm not a fan of all those sharp corners on the interior. They have the potential to cause some serious boat bruises!

    I still don't like the look of the L39 from the outside. The bridgedeck is just ugly. I don't think the interior would have suffered much if the bridgedeck had been designed with a more rounded shape, rather than the slab-sided lump that it is.

    If the L39 turns out to have outstanding sailing performance then maybe my views on the L39 might soften a little, but I don't think there will be any surprises in that area.

    It will be interesting to see how well the Lagoon 39 sells, especially compared to the 380 and 400. It will also be interesting to see what prices Lagoon 39s sell for when they eventually find their way onto the secondhand market. I suspect the exterior appearance will put many people off and the 380 will sell more easily and for higher prices. Just my opinion of course.

  3. #83

    Default Re: Lagoon 39

    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
    The 39 looks more geared towards elderly distinguished people being sailed from one port in the Med to the other.
    I don't think elderly people will appreciate all those sharp interior corners.

    Our world is more like this:
    a bunch of cruising kids jumping around the table, leaving their dirty hands and feet prints everywhere and playing with the switchpanel (which is at the worst possible position). Me rushing in to turn the AP back on with sandy feet and fish blood at the hands, leaving my own hand prints everywhere.
    Have you considered an old rusty trawler for your next boat?

    I also have the feeling that this one will not look too good after a few years in charter, unless they have significantly improved their woodworking. Hard edges tend to wear faster than round ones.
    Yes, that's a good point.

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Old Portsmouth UK
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    59

    Default Re: Lagoon 39

    Quote Originally Posted by ColdFusion View Post

    If the L39 turns out to have outstanding sailing performance then maybe my views on the L39 might soften a little, but I don't think there will be any surprises in that area.
    I think it's telling that Lagoon fail to include any displacement figures in the specs. With a sail area of around 80 sq m, the SA/D ratio is unlikely to be inspiring. I wait to be proved wrong

    And as for that tent arrangement above the steering position, words fail me!

    Cheers
    Cliff

  5. #85
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    582

    Default Re: Lagoon 39

    If any of you do get a test sail on the 39, listen out for the 'creaking' factor - if it exists. I say this because a couple of Lagoon owners (420s converted back to diesels, of course) - complained to us about the alarming levels of 'creak noise' the furniture emitted when under way. Is this just a problem with the 420?

    And it would be nice to know if that pale and lovely laminate material is 'plastic' through and through, or has a wood component. If the former, it will probably be a lot less trouble than the latter. (Based on personal experience, I wouldn't have wooden veneer on a boat for all the tea in frigging China).

    Karen


  6. #86

    Default Re: Lagoon 39

    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    And it would be nice to know if that pale and lovely laminate material is 'plastic' through and through, or has a wood component. If the former, it will probably be a lot less trouble than the latter.
    The Lagoon website says, "interior woodwork in Alpi® reconstituted wood, a sustainable source". So there must be some finely grated bits of tree in it somewhere.

    [google search] I've just found this:
    What is reconstituted wood?

    Best Answer

    Reconstituted is re processed so with wood it could be Chipboard, cardboard or paper.

    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_reconstituted_wood


    If I was considering buying a Lagoon 39 I'd be asking some probing questions regarding the make-up of "Alpi® reconstituted wood" and I'd take anything a salesperson said with a pinch of salt unless Lagoon put it in writing. One thing is for sure - cost will be the driving factor in Lagoon's choice of "Alpi". Driving costs down and maintaining profits can't be faulted if they want to stay in business but there's a difference between driving costs down and driving quality down (whilst still trying to make things look OK superficially for at least the short term).

    (Based on personal experience, I wouldn't have wooden veneer on a boat for all the tea in frigging China).
    I thought interior wood veneer was OK long term as long as it was sealed properly? What would you prefer the interior of a cat to be fitted out with in preference to wood veneer?

  7. #87
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    Jan 2009
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    582

    Default Re: Lagoon 39

    Quote Originally Posted by ColdFusion View Post
    I thought interior wood veneer was OK long term as long as it was sealed properly?
    The trouble is you don't know for sure when you buy a boat if the veneer is sealed properly. But you sure as hell will find out in due course, after the final payment has left your bank account!

    Even if sealed and treated well, expect to get wicking sooner or later - far sooner if you have a leak or spill. A pal of ours who worked in the wood industry refused to have any wood on his boat - for that very reason. It really boils down to do you want to spend time on epoxying and revarnishing ad nauseum, or would you rather go sailing. Wood is lovely, but it's high maintenance.

    What would you prefer the interior of a cat to be fitted out with in preference to wood veneer?
    Plastic laminate complimented by paint. We've just bought some (rather a lot would be more accurate) from WilsonArt to replace much of the wooden veneer on Butterfly. In time, we plan to either paint over, or laminate in place of all the original veneer. Given how lovely some of the plastic laminates are, it's a wonder to me why anyone would want all the trouble and faff wooden veneers give.

    Karen


  8. #88
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    Me Germany / Boat Spain
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    332

    Default Re: Lagoon 39

    Quote Originally Posted by cliffdykes View Post
    I think it's telling that Lagoon fail to include any displacement figures in the specs. With a sail area of around 80 sq m, the SA/D ratio is unlikely to be inspiring. I wait to be proved wrong

    And as for that tent arrangement above the steering position, words fail me!

    Cheers
    Cliff
    She has much fatter hulls and she will be much heavier than our 410 with 93sqm.
    Downwind performance will be determined by the size of the spinnaker that you want to fly. Upwind performance is determined by choosing the bigger engine option
    The 80sqm you are talking about are mostly for decoration


    Re steering position: I don't spend that much time there anyway during the days of passages, I spend more time on the net. At night the helm should be fine. So I prefer not to have one of these flimsy tents.

  9. #89
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    Feb 2010
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    Default Re: Lagoon 39

    Quote Originally Posted by ColdFusion View Post
    I thought interior wood veneer was OK long term as long as it was sealed properly? What would you prefer the interior of a cat to be fitted out with in preference to wood veneer?
    I'd prefer white gelcoat surfaces with some nice wood applications. Wood only for cabinet doors, drawer and other things, that are easily taken off for restoration or replacement. No big wood panels, as replacing them is impossible (you will never match colors).

    And very thick wood veneers, like on Privilege cats. Older Lagoons were also OK, newer models seem to suffer from too thin veneer, cheapest laminate glue and thin varnish. Edges start to peel off pretty fast, little scratches become major marks in short time, etc.

  10. #90
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    Default Re: Lagoon 39

    Quote Originally Posted by ColdFusion View Post
    The Lagoon website says, "interior woodwork in Alpi® reconstituted wood, a sustainable source". So there must be some finely grated bits of tree in it somewhere.
    check http://www.alpiwood.com/en/Technical_Product_Datasheets

    Can't be much worse than the varnish work I have seen on some more recent 380s

  11. #91

    Default Re: Lagoon 39

    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    The trouble is you don't know for sure when you buy a boat if the veneer is sealed properly...
    Yes, good point.

    Plastic laminate complimented by paint. We've just bought some (rather a lot would be more accurate) from WilsonArt to replace much of the wooden veneer on Butterfly. In time, we plan to either paint over, or laminate in place of all the original veneer. Given how lovely some of the plastic laminates are, it's a wonder to me why anyone would want all the trouble and faff wooden veneers give.
    Interesting... It sounds like Butterfly will be unrecognisable when you've finished. Thanks for the link. Bookmarked.

  12. #92

    Default Re: Lagoon 39

    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
    I'd prefer white gelcoat surfaces with some nice wood applications. Wood only for cabinet doors, drawer and other things, that are easily taken off for restoration or replacement. No big wood panels, as replacing them is impossible (you will never match colors).

    And very thick wood veneers, like on Privilege cats. Older Lagoons were also OK, newer models seem to suffer from too thin veneer, cheapest laminate glue and thin varnish. Edges start to peel off pretty fast, little scratches become major marks in short time, etc.
    Again, an interesting response and similar to Karen's take on this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
    check http://www.alpiwood.com/en/Technical_Product_Datasheets

    Can't be much worse than the varnish work I have seen on some more recent 380s
    I had assumed Alpi was a Lagoon-only marketing thing. I didn't think to google it. Doh! Reading the blurb (briefly) it doesn't sound as bad as I had first imagined, especially given your and Karen's views on real wood veneers.

    Thanks (to you and to Karen) for giving me food for thought.

  13. #93
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    582

    Default Re: Lagoon 39

    Happy to help, Keith - though you'll no doubt find some who have other opinions on the virtues of wood veneer. But Rabbi is absolutely spot on the money when he talks about there being too much thin veneer used in modern boat production, and with too little varnish on it for protection.

    If I was considering buying a new boat, like the L39, I would ask to be given samples of the materials they use for cosmetic finish. Then you can test them at home for their suitability and resistance to water-wicking and ease of cleaning etc. If you're spending that sort of money, you're entitled to a little reassurance or, alternatively, finding out your hard-earned money would be better spent elsewhere.

    Another no-no for us is leather. As in leather seating covers. Right now, I'm in the process of making all new fabric covers for our saloon seating. The original leather covers were a disaster. In hot climates leather sticks to your skin, is uncomfortable, and makes you even sweatier. In cold climates, it's too darn cold. And it can be a magnet for mildew and mold. Recently had an email from some cruising pals who'd returned to their boat to find all sweet, but their leather upholstery thick with the dreaded black sooty spores. Leather also has a tendency to crack and shed its outer skin where people regularly sit. So then you need to buy covers for your leathers. So why not choose a material that is more practical from the off?

    Personally, I like removable seating covers that are easily washable and quick to dry. Keeps the boat looking and smelling sweet, too. Fart-arsing around cleaning leather upholstery and feeding it with lotions to prevent cracking etc - well, there's enough boat maintenance to do without that!

    K


  14. #94
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    Me Germany / Boat Spain
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    332

    Default Re: Lagoon 39

    even the thickest veneer will fail if not treated with minimal care. This is from a Privilege 37 that has been for sale for the last 2+ years (of course in great condition, better than new, make an offer now!)

    So I prefer surfaces I can wipe off mixed with few small (and repair/replaceable!!) wood applications for feeling at home.

    On the other forum they called the new Lagoon 39 interior inspired by IKEA and I have to agree.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Rabbi; 11th December 2012 at 12:19 PM. Reason: premature pressing the send button

  15. #95

    Default Re: Lagoon 39

    Beloved friends.

    I agree with the last comment, myself I would also prefer a material that I can keep clean easy, the plastic is for sure the best choice although not necessary the beautifulest one.

    Thank you for all you consideration about sustainability of the veneer and material used in boat furniture, many informations you are giving here is important and may help many people in choosing the right material.

    Maybe this subject will merit an all new thread by itself so maybe somebody who know well about the subject would like to open a particular thread in this forum.

    I will post few more pict about the 39 later today.

  16. #96

    Default Re: Lagoon 39

    In another forum "Tuba" have posted a link to a french web page with a fantastic 360 degree view of the 39 taken in paris boat show here it is :
    http://www.visualboat.fr/2012/12/lag...de-paris-2012/

    Thank you "Tuba"

  17. #97
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Me Germany / Boat Spain
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    332

    Default Re: Lagoon 39

    I agree on the thread drift. Maybe the mods can move the "I hate veneer" part of the thread.



    I'll have to wait for the Düsseldorf boat show early next year but she sure does look huge and comfy inside. I am even more interested how she looks after 3 years of charter abuse.

    I love the bimini size and setup, and it's a great place for lots of solar panels. I could easily live without this ugly tent over the helm.
    I like the square seating arrangement as the older round ones did not allow you to just stretch a bit. I hope that the rounded curves of the underside of the bridgedeck reduce the noise of water slapping against the sides (was quite unnerving on the 410).
    The standard head has a separate shower stall which is a great improvement and the shower area seems to be all fibreglass without wood panels or silicone seals. Easy to wipe off ;-)

    But I am not sure about the escape hatches which are no longer real opening hatches but fixed (glass?) windows that you break with a little SS hammer conveniently stowed beside the window (as in busses and trains).
    Either they are weak enough that you can easily escape. Or they are strong enough to survive the impact of some floatsam in the middle of nowhere but then it may be hard to escape...
    At least they won't leak as often as the old ones.

    Also I hope that they have put enough thought into the mast foot arrangement. It's just sitting on the bridgedeck and a flat panel can't take much pressure. Again, I'd love to see how she looks like after 3 years of hard charter work and crossing the atlantic twice per year.

  18. #98

    Default Re: Lagoon 39

    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
    I agree on the thread drift. Maybe the mods can move the "I hate veneer" part of the thread.

  19. #99

    Default Re: Lagoon 39

    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
    The standard head has a separate shower stall which is a great improvement and the shower area seems to be all fibreglass without wood panels or silicone seals. Easy to wipe off ;-)
    Yes and it let people take a shower without putting water all over the place so the next crew member wont slip on the wet floor next time they go to the toilet.

  20. #100
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Bulverde, Texas
    Posts
    135

    Default Re: Lagoon 39

    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
    Also I hope that they have put enough thought into the mast foot arrangement. It's just sitting on the bridgedeck and a flat panel can't take much pressure. Again, I'd love to see how she looks like after 3 years of hard charter work and crossing the atlantic twice per year.
    Lagoon stated somewhere specifically on the new 52 that the compression forces from the mast are handled by the strength of the gullwing bridgedeck. There is quite a bit more strength in that shape than a flat surface. The center ridge carries much of the load fore and aft. They are not the only builder doing this. (See FreeFlow Cats) It has been debated extensively. I am certain a builder with Lagoons resources did not move the mast back, with all of the implications, without substantial benefits and understanding the loads and how they would be distributed. From a layout perspective the old positioning is easier to build and doesn't put a compression post in the middle of the living area. They had to believe there were clear gains to be achieved.

    The proof will be in the performance and with the direction Lagoon has been going in, ie. bigger heavier boats with fatter hulls, they really need to do something to put some level of sailing performance back.

    One thing is very clear however, this new design in creating a very large amount of interest. No matter what ultimately comes of the design, I am enjoying seeing something different. Vive La Différence!
    ______________
    Steve

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