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Thread: Cat wrecked in Exumas

  1. #1
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    Default Cat wrecked in Exumas

    The Explorer Charts website reports that a Lagoon 44 was wrecked trying to enter Elizabeth harbor via the Fowl Cay cut. Apparently the vessels Navionics electronic charts indicated an entrance there.

    I have exited the harbor that way several times because the light is more favorable than the eastern entrance and the wave conditions are frequently better. BUT - the light would be more in your face trying to enter that cut.

    This is reportedly the second vessel to be lost trying to enter here in the past 1-2 years.

    For more information try explorercharts.com.
    Sail Fast Live Slow

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Cat wrecked in Exumas

    Supposedly it is a total loss.

    http://chatter.explorercharts.com/?p=10641

    Marshall
    "People sail for fun and no one has yet convinced me that it's more fun to go slow than it is to go fast." -- Dick Newick

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Cat wrecked in Exumas

    Apparently they were trying to come in between Guana Cay and Fowl Cay. I don't think you can get anything bigger than a kayak through there.
    The exit I referred to in my previous post is in between Fowl Cay and Whelk Cay.
    Please don't confuse the two.
    Sail Fast Live Slow

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Cat wrecked in Exumas

    One additional piece of info:
    Explorer Charts says they do not furnish any chart data to Navionics.
    Sail Fast Live Slow

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Cat wrecked in Exumas

    Thats a shame, We've learned you cannot rely on any electronic charts. We bumped bottom (gently) in an area that was showing 19' on the navionics and had shoaled in over the years. I havent pulled out my paper charts but does anyone know what they show for the area?

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Cat wrecked in Exumas

    I just looked at my navionics hd it shows that spot as 4 ft. I dont think id chance it.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Cat wrecked in Exumas

    Navionics have put all their charts online in a webapp, which is quite nice.

    I see there is a line on that chart there, but no clue as to what that means (ie. no transit markings).


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Cat wrecked in Exumas

    My program shows more a few depths and its shallow between the two. and and Im guessing that bost draws 4ft- whats really scary is mine shows its 14-19 ft deep between Welk cay and Welk harbor aside from the rocks but 10-14 ft between all the rocks. Your pic shows its not navigatble at all between the harbor andwelk cay. Anyone have loical knowledge? Makes really paranoid

  9. #9

    Default Re: Cat wrecked in Exumas

    Aside from base datum used to create the chart, you also have to know how to use electronic charts. Being aware of scale is the single most important thing to know.

    The above picture of the chart shows nothing. It's the wrong scale.

    The only thing that can be determined by the above chart is "stay the f away from all the cays."

    People often zoom into a coastal chart and then use it as a harbor chart. It is operator error, not a problem with electronic charts in those cases. You can make the same mistake with paper charts, using a coastal chart to enter a harbor.

    And if they followed that pink line? Wow!

    It looks like a border.. demarking a country or marine zone.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Cat wrecked in Exumas

    Quote Originally Posted by Sully View Post
    Aside from base datum used to create the chart, you also have to know how to use electronic charts. Being aware of scale is the single most important thing to know.

    The above picture of the chart shows nothing. It's the wrong scale.

    The only thing that can be determined by the above chart is "stay the f away from all the cays."

    People often zoom into a coastal chart and then use it as a harbor chart. It is operator error, not a problem with electronic charts in those cases. You can make the same mistake with paper charts, using a coastal chart to enter a harbor.

    And if they followed that pink line? Wow!

    It looks like a border.. demarking a country or marine zone.
    Thank-you Sully!

    What a good, and sensible point.

    I often zoom in on the coastal charts to see more detail of harbours or other difficult places. I do because I can and it is easy. It had not occurred to me that this is silly.

    Perhaps there needs to be an indication saying 'Do not zoom more than x%' or something. How else do you know when you are pushing it too far?

    Hmmm. Food for thought.

    Mike
    Nothing works on an old boat, except the skipper.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Cat wrecked in Exumas

    CM93 shows large areas of rock between Guana Cay and Fowl Cay and no direct passage through.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Cat wrecked in Exumas

    Quote Originally Posted by dmmbruce View Post
    Thank-you Sully!

    What a good, and sensible point.

    I often zoom in on the coastal charts to see more detail of harbours or other difficult places. I do because I can and it is easy. It had not occurred to me that this is silly.

    Perhaps there needs to be an indication saying 'Do not zoom more than x%' or something. How else do you know when you are pushing it too far?

    Hmmm. Food for thought.

    Mike
    An indicator that you have "over zoomed" would be a good addition to electronic displays. Nice idea.




    One way you can tell you are pushing too far is this....

    Just look at the chart above. If you are looking to go between Guana Cay and Fowl Cay, what do you see?

    NOTHING. There is nothing shown between those island except a single 8 foot sounding and Co, which represents a "Coral Reef", nearly closing the entire passage off on the southwestern side.

    If you are trying to transit a little area like they did and you see a single number 8, tons of rocks or coral heads (the *'s) and a contour marked "Co", you are in for destroying your boat.

    It is fully insane to look at a chart like above and determine, based on *one sounding of 8* that it is safe.

    You must see several soundings - no less than 8 or 10 of them in that area you are transiting, as well as several on the same contour that show you a clear path through. If your chart does not show many sounding where you are transiting, the scale is wrong and you need to either get a different paper chart out, or load a different chart into your plotter.

    There is nothing about the above chart that shows any of this.

    Going through that area, based on the above chart, would be very irresponsible, as the scale is completely wrong for that.

    The above chart says nothing and shows almost no clear path, except to go the long way around and watch the *'s (rocks or coral heads).

    The only course I see that is remotely safe would be to go through Welk harbor, but I wouldn't do that with this scale either, without looking at a harbor chart. Based on the above chart, I would stay outside, find a better chart, or watch what everyone else is doing and try to determine if a monohull with a keel went through and follow them in.

    FWIW, in over 20 years of sailing and boat ownership, I have never hit the bottom or had any navigation error, including all of my charters and living aboard since 2004/2005 full time and constantly traveling. The one and only time I touched was in the ICW where they were dredging and there was a mound of mud in the center of the channel.
    Last edited by Sully; 5th February 2013 at 02:38 PM.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Cat wrecked in Exumas

    Thanks.

    Mike
    Nothing works on an old boat, except the skipper.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Cat wrecked in Exumas

    OpenCPN pastes a big "OVER ZOOM" on the chart if you do so. I get very nervous in shallow water and try to avoid it. Did the surveyors find every reef? A chart is just a best guess.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Cat wrecked in Exumas

    In full gory detail - Not for the faint hearted: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ottom-torn-out

  16. #16

    Default Re: Cat wrecked in Exumas

    Actually it was a brand new Lagoon 450 and it is now for sale.
    http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...ertifiedsales&

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Cat wrecked in Exumas

    Motors reportedly drained and ran??? Looks like the motors fell out the bottom of the boat . That boat was completly under, what part of the boat do they really think is worth 150k??? maybe 25+/-

    On a serious note, would a cat that had solid glass below waterline and maybe lighter smaller, going slower have broken up like this?

    it seems these big huge production cats break up pretty easy. That or they must have been going pretty fast to get her way up on the reef after ripping both keels off.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Cat wrecked in Exumas

    It was reported that most of the damage was done pulling it off the reef. If those balloons were used initially then perhaps it wouldn't have been so bad. Or some other method than brute force.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Cat wrecked in Exumas

    Quote Originally Posted by ColdFusion View Post
    In full gory detail - Not for the faint hearted: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...ottom-torn-out
    I think these pictures show a boat in the BVI not the Exumas and the listing for sale is also in the BVI. It's strange that these apparently two different accidents both involved a Lagoon 450.
    Brian

  20. #20

    Default Re: Cat wrecked in Exumas

    I looked at those pics again and think the "Exumas" boat is a 440. I always assumed it was the other 450 in the BVI. I wasn't putting together the different locations. I suffer from CRS.

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