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Thread: Global Warming nothing since 1997

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Global Warming nothing since 1997

    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Global Warming nothing since 1997

    This is a great series and it encourages the viewer to do their research. There is a lot of BS out there.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52KLG...fHsWPfAIyI7VAP

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Global Warming nothing since 1997

    Yes I am aware of the series.
    What all this boils down to is a group of climate scientists who with the backing of Al Gore who'd predictions have a all turned out absurdly wrong to date, gave the world a shock about its future.

    Huge amounts of government funding were devoted to this total new industry that founded its belief on a computer model that has turned out to be hugely wrong in its predictions. In order to snuffle debate this lots who's mortgage payments now depended upon the scare continuing started calling those who went against them as 'deniers'. A bit like the heresy accusations of the religious community that plagued Europe in the middle ages and even today still plagues much of the muslim world.

    Science has a process that welcomes debate, that welcomes openness and truth but in this case the climate change gurus are not following that rule. They have tried hard to surpass opposition to their views.

    The models when wrong are fiddled. History has to be changed so that warming periods and mini ice ages are ignored.

    Western governments like Germany went plunging ahead with solar and wind farms but today whilst building 28 coal fire power stations in a hurry they have their largest wind farm business going bust. They are now going to tax solar energy ........ the worm has turned because at last the penny has dropped ... alternative sources of energy acre hugely expensive and that makes their industry uncompetitive with the highest power costs in Europe.

    In the meantime China, India etc plough on and of course CO2 emissions have sky rocketed. Yet during this time of huge increases in CO2 levels the climate models have been proved way out.

    If I am right then then within a few years we will know because world wide temperatures will continue at a standstill or even to fall. Of course those who have to pay their mortgages on the back of this climate scare have to keep that scare going but it is gradually losing its shine.

    Politicians never like to admit they were wrong so they have to do an about turn and try to save face ..... however they have no choice but to turn the whole green thing around.

    In the USA energy prices have dropped like a stone and power hungry industries are returning home. Fracking is the reason. Europe has banned tracking - we live in an EU that has a government made up of unelected politicians and we have many stupid laws. The UK is now intent on exploiting its massive gas resources by fracking. It too will be dropping its green policies after 2020.

    Australia has just packed the whole green thing in ... common sense has returned.

    Thats just my two cents worth and my take on the current position. Over the life of this forum I would argue that the data has swung strongly my way as has the turn around country after country.
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
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  4. #24
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    Default Re: Global Warming nothing since 1997

    Chancellor Angela Merkel's "Energiewende" policy aims to cut greenhouse gas emissions by 40 per cent between 1990 and 2020, mostly by closing coal-fired power plants and boosting renewable energy. Yet in 2013, coal burning soared to its highest level for more than 20 years. It seems highly unlikely that Germany can hit the CO2 reduction target by 2030, much less 2020," says Roger Pielke Jr of the University of Colorado in Boulder. --Fred Pearce, New Scientist, 22 January 2014

    German wind energy giant Prokon filed for insolvency on Wednesday, leaving tens of thousands of investors worried about their money. Prokon, which builds and manages wind parks, has been a leading player in Germany’s ambitious plan to switch to renewable energy. It managed to attract 75,000 investors through a successful advertising campaign. But after months of speculation that the company was close to ruin, Prokon filed for insolvency. --The Local, 23 January 2014
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    Paul
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  5. #25
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    Default Re: Global Warming nothing since 1997

    Yet during this time of huge increases in CO2 levels the climate models have been proved way out.
    Can you substantiate this claim?

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Global Warming nothing since 1997

    Yes.
    Please look at the climate model predictions and the actual temperatures in the graph in the link already provided and provided again here
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    Paul
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  7. #27
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    Default Re: Global Warming nothing since 1997

    This is a fuller explanation of the IPCC model errors. Here

    In fairness the IPCC are a political UN body that take their selection of climate model papers throughout the world and form a report from them. The IPCC in itself has no research and often has made huge blunder such as reporting on the himalayan glaciers where they used a newspaper report to make false claims of glaciers melting and had to withdraw it later.

    Any unbiased person looking at the data has to conclude the models are wrong.
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  8. #28
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    Default Re: Global Warming nothing since 1997

    Quote Originally Posted by ForumAdmin View Post
    Fracking is the reason. Europe has banned tracking - we live in an EU that has a government made up of unelected politicians and we have many stupid laws. The UK is now intent on exploiting its massive gas resources by fracking. It too will be dropping its green policies after 2020.
    But then fracking is another hot potato discussion, isn't it? Dividing those who are all in favour from those forecasting dire consequences from those saying fine, but it is a short-term fix only.

    I've read too little to have an informed opinion, but my faith in the Law of Unintended Consequences, coupled with a belief that man's short term greed usually takes precedence over long-term wisdom - not to mention the extensive impact fracking could have on wildlife and fragile ecological systems - makes me less than enthusiastic.

    ("light the blue touchpaper and retire ...")


  9. #29
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    Default Re: Global Warming nothing since 1997

    The division of tracking is not really based on facts.

    Many thousands of such sites exist in the USA without environmental damage.
    No fracking business could ever want to be closed down for damaging the environment and the wells have a tiny footprint. I do not see the impact that fracking would have on wildlife and fragile ecological systems..... can you please explain? The impact to me seems minimal.

    Fracking would give us say another 40 to 70 years of fuel and by all means lets devote resources to alternative power sources. In the UK the solar source is absurdly expensive and not reliable requiring 100% back up. Same for wind power. Tidal has a role because it can bee relied upon at known times and quantities ........ Fracking in the UK it just means that instead of importing expensive gas we can produce our own.

    The alternative is more nuclear or more coal - Germany has chosen the traditional coal route to get itself out of it crisis and is killing off solar and wind.

    I would like to know of what the alternatives are that provide the secure power systems the country needs?
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
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  10. #30
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    Default Re: Global Warming nothing since 1997

    Quote Originally Posted by ForumAdmin View Post
    The division of tracking is not really based on facts.
    Many thousands of such sites exist in the USA without environmental damage.
    No fracking business could ever want to be closed down for damaging the environment and the wells have a tiny footprint. I do not see the impact that fracking would have on wildlife and fragile ecological systems..... can you please explain? The impact to me seems minimal.

    Fracking would give us say another 40 to 70 years of fuel and by all means lets devote resources to alternative power sources. In the UK the solar source is absurdly expensive and not reliable requiring 100% back up. Same for wind power. Tidal has a role because it can bee relied upon at known times and quantities ........ Fracking in the UK it just means that instead of importing expensive gas we can produce our own.

    The alternative is more nuclear or more coal - Germany has chosen the traditional coal route to get itself out of it crisis and is killing off solar and wind.

    I would like to know of what the alternatives are that provide the secure power systems the country needs?
    Ah ... I'd hoped the rider in italics at the bottom of my post above, would be understood but seems not. Given the global warming discussion had run out of steam with Bob taking early retirement, I thought a new contentious issue might be required. Kickstarting the fracking thing was just trying to be helpful - oh, alright, playful then!

    To be honest, I have no time - nor desire - to get stuck into this myself, and can't bring much to the party anyway, not having read extensively on the subject. My concerns as expressed above are genuine, for all that, though not based on hard facts, more on being very unimpressed by man's frequent shortsightedness , when it comes to buggering up nature in the name of profit and short-term fixes. The trouble is we tend only to think in terms of decades, not hundreds or millenia.

    Karen (who is, alas, fracking tired and off to get some shut-eye now.)


  11. #31
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    Default Re: Global Warming nothing since 1997

    I agree on man's short sighted approach and do think we should be thinking long term. To do so requires governments to provide the structure for such planning because there is usually no current profit in the project. However most governments that cannot even plan within their own terms in office let alone look to the future so in order to be popular. they plunge nations into debt by spending more that their income.

    The exception is the Norwegian government who invested a large chunk of their North Sea oil income so that their children and grand children are well looked after.

    In order to bring about a change in attitude we need the population to vote for the right governments but the simple fact is that what appeals to the population is just today so there is a political race to the bottom of the bucket with political parties appealing to the lowest common denominator and offering bribe after bribe. That then is because as you say Karen, due to man's basic greed.
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    Paul
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  12. #32
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    Default Re: Global Warming nothing since 1997

    Quote Originally Posted by ForumAdmin View Post
    I agree on man's short sighted approach and do think we should be thinking long term. To do so requires governments to provide the structure for such planning because there is usually no current profit in the project. However most governments that cannot even plan within their own terms in office let alone look to the future so in order to be popular. they plunge nations into debt by spending more that their income.
    Absolutely! (My addition of bold font)

    The exception is the Norwegian government who invested a large chunk of their North Sea oil income so that their children and grand children are well looked after.

    In order to bring about a change in attitude we need the population to vote for the right governments but the simple fact is that what appeals to the population is just today so there is a political race to the bottom of the bucket with political parties appealing to the lowest common denominator and offering bribe after bribe. That then is because as you say Karen, due to man's basic greed.
    Again, couldn't agree more. That's why I wash my hands of politics. Wrong, perhaps, since apathy and non-involvement assures the parlous state continues.

    Far nicer is to escape the depressing nonsense of it all, and go sailing!


  13. #33
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    Default Re: Global Warming nothing since 1997

    A little more googling on the fracking topic (didn't mean to do this - but hey, there ya go) - and found this neat little animation. It comes from a site devoted to expounding the alleged harm that fracking can cause. Are the stated facts trustworthy? Don't know. But the need for transparency from companies involved in fracking is obviously highly desirable - if, in my admittedly cynical opinion - unlikely.

    Click on this link and begin scrolling down slowly.

    Not surprisingly, the website above is only one among an abundance of anti-fracking material available on the internet. Below, for example, is another piece e-published on several websites, very much denigrating the whole fracking boom. Are the facts expressed correct? It all sounds very plausible, I think. But, yes, thinking is no substitute for knowing.

    Fracking and the Oil Shale "Revolution"

    Karen


  14. #34
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    Default Re: Global Warming nothing since 1997

    Here ya go, Paul ...

    Dakota scientist offering $10,000 to anyone who can disprove the manmade global warming nonsense. Click here.

    K


  15. #35
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    Default Re: Global Warming nothing since 1997

    Karen
    Disproving a negative is normally impossible.
    In all of science the process is to prove the positive.
    The climate model has now been proven not to work as we enter the 18th year without global warming and every forecast buy it has been proven wrong.

    I am willing to offer $20,000 to anyone who can prove that there is not a teapot circling Saturn!!!!
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    Paul
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  16. #36
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    Default Re: Global Warming nothing since 1997

    I also believe in Thor .... he is a great god and I offer $20,000 to anyone who can prove he does not exist!!!!

    Of course ... you watch Dawkins and hence these bets are not news to you
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
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  17. #37
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    Default Re: Global Warming nothing since 1997

    What surprises me is that we still have this sort of aggressive insistence on man-made global warming being a certainty, despite the increasing number of revelations about fiddled data and contradictory facts about non-rising sea-levels and wotnot. It's kinda like playing at being King Canute.

    Karen


  18. #38
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    Default Re: Global Warming nothing since 1997

    And it is all the more surprising when the blinkered insistence comes from a so-called scientist - as in the case I linked to above. For one of the great strengths of true science is the willingness to reconsider theories should new facts arise - especially when those facts cast doubt on the old theory.

    Karen


  19. #39
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    Default Re: Global Warming nothing since 1997

    Besides the fiddled data, the earth not responding as predicted etc the scientists continue by isolating those who disagree, adopting the inquisition like standards in naming those who disagree heretics ...... its damages science let alone making the poor of the world even poorer.

    But it is all coming out in the wash as scientists break ranks, governments ignore the green path etc. The pity is the huge waste of money. I agree with a big budget research into alternative forms of energy ...... you know all my points by now so its not worth repeating them but time will tell.
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    Paul
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  20. #40
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    Default Re: Global Warming nothing since 1997

    Sailors do it with the wind ....

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