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Thread: An interesting UK statistic

  1. #41

    Red face Re: An interesting UK statistic

    Quote Originally Posted by ForumAdmin View Post
    You are stroll simplifying.

    Free trade is good and I support it very much. But is has too be fair trade.
    Brazil adopted protectionist measures that were too much and not based on that principle.

    Today in the UK we have more people in work than ever in our history. We have about 7% unemployment and in any economy there will always be say 4 or 5% to allow for mobility of labour etc. It is still too high but the reasons for it are complex and include over 5 million immigrants over the last decade - a number that is greater then ever in our history. Another reason is a failed education system, a sloppy social welfare system that pays people not to work and be bestows penalties on them for trying to work. There are many reasons.

    Yoiu are adopting a very black and white approach to complex issues and seem to resent success.

    I am a UK resident and pay all my taxes. I have help create 300 jobs, we export to over 30 countries ..... surely the UK needs more people like me?
    If you penalise success everyone loses.
    I don't resent success I just told you my opinion on what I see here in the states. Big business making huge profits yet laying people of then lowering the wages for the remaining workers knowing they will work harder because they don't want to lose their job. Also benefits cut back or completely cut out. That's what I see happening.
    If you have 300 workers working for you and you treat them well then I applaud you. If you treat them like a like a lot of big business's are treating employees then there will be a special place in hell just for you.

  2. #42
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    Default Re: An interesting UK statistic

    So what do you think should be done in the USA to stop the problem that you describe?
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

  3. #43

    Default Re: An interesting UK statistic

    I'm beginning to come around to your point of view Paul. If what you seem to be saying is true. The big earners, (say 10,000 per week) and those with "old money" are actually jealous of the worker that earns 100 per week and only pays 20 per year in tax. They also only want to pay 20 per year tax. I can see how they would think that was more equitable. All we have to do is convince the low paid that this is fair. While we're at it, how about them bloody pensioners, surely they could contribute another ten or so years to the government coffers and give the poor wealthy folks a bit of leeway.
    You have me convinced
    cheers john

  4. #44

    Default Re: An interesting UK statistic

    Quote Originally Posted by tater View Post
    I'm beginning to come around to your point of view Paul. If what you seem to be saying is true. The big earners, (say 10,000 per week) and those with "old money" are actually jealous of the worker that earns 100 per week and only pays 20 per year in tax. They also only want to pay 20 per year tax. I can see how they would think that was more equitable. All we have to do is convince the low paid that this is fair. While we're at it, how about them bloody pensioners, surely they could contribute another ten or so years to the government coffers and give the poor wealthy folks a bit of leeway.
    You have me convinced
    cheers john

  5. #45

    Default Re: An interesting UK statistic

    Quote Originally Posted by ForumAdmin View Post
    So what do you think should be done in the USA to stop the problem that you describe?
    Now that's a loaded question!

  6. #46

  7. #47
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    Default Re: An interesting UK statistic

    The number of wrong assumptions in your post do not help make your point one jot.
    If what you seem to be saying is true. The big earners, (say 10,000 per week) and those with "old money" are actually jealous of the worker that earns 100 per week and only pays 20 per year in tax. They also only want to pay 20 per year tax.
    I know of none who would want toy pay the same amount of tax as you claim so you make a totally absurd point that is not true.
    At the moment the tax regime in the UK should be such that it raises the most revenue with the high earners taking a good part of the burden... that is what is happening.
    My point was that the social program spending is so high that it is unsustainable and that no country can be stable and survive long term by borrowing to pay for current expenditure and having half the population living of the other half.

    I can see how they would think that was more equitable. All we have to do is convince the low paid that this is fair.
    So I write that a lot of the low paid should be taken out of tax all together and as they earn more should not be hit by a tax rate that discourages earning more and that is your response? You are not arguing with me but some distorted idea that pops into your head.

    While we're at it, how about them bloody pensioners, surely they could contribute another ten or so years to the government coffers and give the poor wealthy folks a bit of leeway.
    The government in the UK has spent the insurance money that pensioners paid into the pot as well as promised pensioners more than they could ever afford. If this was a private assurance scheme the people who ran it would be in jail for fraud.

    In addition life spans have shot up past all planned expectations.
    However the money has gone and the only way to pay future pensions is to raise the age of retirement. Its nothing to do with the rich.
    Ifg you confiscated 100% off the incomes of the rich it would not be enough money to make more than a small dent into the problem.

    You have totally misrepresented what I have written on this thread and then with some distorted assumptions made some petty cynical points.
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

  8. #48
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    Default Re: An interesting UK statistic

    By the way - the biggest shareholders in those corporations are often ..... pension funds
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

  9. #49
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    Default Re: An interesting UK statistic

    You ask what can be done in USA??? it will continue to get worse until the borders are closed . the criminal illegal aliens deported, and the rich forbidden,along with all corporations,including foreign ones , to bribe all the politicians via a bribery system known as "campaign contributions". By the way, the usa is the only country in the world that allows foreign corporations to contribute unlimited money to USA elections.

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  11. #51
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    Default Re: An interesting UK statistic

    Thanks for that link SMJ.
    I would like to see the actual tax yield figures to back it up.
    'There is no doubt that here in the UK the Thatcher cut increased tax yield.

    Now tell me what tax would you impose for someone earning say 4 times as much as the average school teacher:-
    4 times the tax?
    6 times the tax?
    8 times the tax?
    What extra tax increase would you propose as incomes rise?
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

  12. #52

  13. #53
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    Default Re: An interesting UK statistic

    The link was interesting but a link alone iOS not enough.
    Please highlight the point you wish to make then the link.
    Also it would be helpful to answer my questions on occasion
    So how about some direct answers to my questions?
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

  14. #54
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    Default Re: An interesting UK statistic

    The facts rather than general comments from left wing sources:-
    After the inflation of the 1970s had pushed millions of Americans into higher tax brackets (even though their inflation-adjusted incomes were not rising), President Ronald Reagan took office and promptly proposed sweeping tax-rate reductions. The cornerstone of his economic policy was a 25-percent across-the-board tax cut, enacted in 1981. According to then-U.S. Representative Jack Kemp (R-NY), one of the chief architects of the Reagan plan:

    "At some point, additional taxes so discourage the activity being taxed, such as working or investing, that they yield less revenue rather than more. There are, after all, two rates that yield the same amount of revenue: high tax rates on low production, or low rates on high production."

    As a result of the Reagan tax cuts, total federal government revenues climbed by 99.4 percent during the 1980s. The average annual growth rate of America's real Gross Domestic Product (GDP) from 1983 to 1989 was 3.8 percent per year, compared with 2.8 percent from 1974 to 1981. By the end of the Reagan years, the American economy was almost one-third larger than it had been when they began. From 1981 through 1989, the U.S. economy produced 17 million new jobs, or roughly 2 million new jobs each year.

    Also, the share of income taxes paid by the top 10 percent of earners jumped significantly, climbing from 48.0 percent in 1981 to 57.2 percent in 1988. The top 1 percent of earners saw their share of the income tax bill climb even more dramatically, from 17.6 percent in 1981 to 27.5 percent in 1988.
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

  15. #55

    Default Re: An interesting UK statistic

    Quote Originally Posted by ForumAdmin View Post
    The facts rather than general comments from left wing sources:-
    Ah but I would say my link was facts not general comments from right wing sources as yours is! There is no pleasing everyone.
    Would the Thatcher link I produced also be general comments from left wing sources? According to that link Thatcher was good for the rich but not really for the basic working man and produced a lot of unemployment. As I'm sure your quite well off maybe that would skew your outlook? According to my father, Thatcher did more harm to Britain than any other prime minister in history. Each to his own as it's all in the past now.

  16. #56

    Default Re: An interesting UK statistic

    Quote Originally Posted by ForumAdmin View Post
    The link was interesting but a link alone iOS not enough.
    Please highlight the point you wish to make then the link.
    Also it would be helpful to answer my questions on occasion
    So how about some direct answers to my questions?
    I have no answers to your questions as I'm not able to determine what a tax rate should be. I do know since taxes have dropped the debt has climbed rapidly so I believe trickle down economics is a bunch of crap. I have my opinions and this thread along with the global warming thread could go
    around in circles forever.

  17. #57
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    Default Re: An interesting UK statistic

    SMJ
    I would like to go into the wider issues of the Thatcher years but its a huge and off topic subject.

    I am trying to keep the subjects within reasonable limits.

    Thank you for your honesty on accepting you cannot give an opinion on tax rates. However, I have quoted you facts on the amount of tax collected and how Reagan increased the tax take from the rich .... these are simple facts not opinions.

    You can choose to ignore the real world facts and keep having opinions without the substance to back them up but then I would argue that that show a bias
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

  18. #58

    Default Re: An interesting UK statistic

    Quote Originally Posted by ForumAdmin View Post
    SMJ
    I would like to go into the wider issues of the Thatcher years but its a huge and off topic subject.

    I am trying to keep the subjects within reasonable limits.

    Thank you for your honesty on accepting you cannot give an opinion on tax rates. However, I have quoted you facts on the amount of tax collected and how Reagan increased the tax take from the rich .... these are simple facts not opinions.

    You can choose to ignore the real world facts and keep having opinions without the substance to back them up but then I would argue that that show a bias
    Are you sure those are facts? I see no link from a respected source all I see is something you could have typed.
    I guess discussing Reagan would be more off topic than discussing Thatcher, but I will agree to disagree.

  19. #59
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    Default Re: An interesting UK statistic

    There would be no point in me inventing the facts.
    I gave you the percentage increases in tax yield and also how Reagen collected more from the rich, about doubling the tax yield from the top 1%.
    You can easily check these facts yourself.

    It comes to something when you simply base your points on your perceptions rather than the actual figures. It makes discussion pointless. You just want to remain with your view despite the facts!! You are, of course, entitled to remain with the delusions, its a free world.

    Correction:a decreasing part of the world is free.
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

  20. #60

    Default Re: An interesting UK statistic

    I would like to go into the wider issues of the Thatcher years but its a huge and off topic subject.
    And:
    You can choose to ignore the real world facts and keep having opinions without the substance to back them up but then I would argue that that show a bias.
    How about when your father comes home covered in bruises received in a brawl at a miner's rally during the miner's strike. The bruises were caused as much by soldiers dressed in civilian clothes who started a brawl, then withdrew just before the police with horses, dogs and big sticks moved in to clear up the "riots" and inflict more bruises.
    If my father had not been in the military himself of course he might have been mistaken and not recognised that they were obviously soldiers.
    Then again maybe that and other stories from people who were there might have left me with a bias.
    Thatcher broke the spirit of, and destroyed more English people than Hitler.
    Of course that couldn't happen in England could it...

    ps
    she is quoted as saying "there is no such thing as society" and set out to prove it.
    Last edited by tater; 30th June 2014 at 11:16 AM. Reason: ps.

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