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Thread: Maverick 400 cracking up

  1. #81
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    Default Re: Maverick 400 cracking up

    I agree with that but I know that the buyer wants to keep this thread focussed on the boat problems - so maybe they can settle the matter on the delivery thread in the Maverick Catamarans Boat Forum and hence keep this thread on subject. That was the only reason.
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

  2. #82

    Default Re: Maverick 400 cracking up

    I did drop Rudi a note ,but todate I have had no reply .
    As I have already stated ,there are 3 (three) issues . My issue with Maverick ,Allans issue with Rudi and also Allans issue with me . All valid by the way and I still have to reply to Allan so you have the complete picture .
    I would be happy to continue with the delivery and Allan on the L and A thread and I think Allan should start a thread for his valid points against Rudi too !Thus leaving this thread as intended and making all points clearer to follow . Just an idea .

  3. #83
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    Default Re: Maverick 400 cracking up

    My reason for suggesting that it may be a good idea now to let the parties deal with this for awhile without outside interference was because Rudy HAD finally responded with a post. I suspect he would like to avoid (or at least minimize) more bad publicity and may now be motivated to do the right thing - especially if he has reason to believe that he can thereby stop or reduce the 'bleeding'.

    Brad

  4. #84
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    Default Re: Maverick 400 cracking up

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Star View Post
    My reason for suggesting that it may be a good idea now to let the parties deal with this for awhile without outside interference was because Rudy HAD finally responded with a post. I suspect he would like to avoid (or at least minimize) more bad publicity and may now be motivated to do the right thing - especially if he has reason to believe that he can thereby stop or reduce the 'bleeding'.

    Brad
    Hi Brad ...

    I hear what you say, but my feeling is that Rudi's response although better than no response, has come far too late and does far too little to stop the 'bleeding'.

    Maverick seem, not to be too delicate about it, somewhat clueless when dealing with this very damaging episode. The perceived wisdom when mounting a 'damage limitation' exercise is to respond quickly, fully taking the blame where blame is due, and offering a full and generous resolution of the problem. In that manner, it is possible to not only re-establish confidence in the company and brand, but to enhance their joint reputation as a business you can trust. Now remember, this calamity happened what? - 3 years ago? In fact, after all this time, all we have is a very belated, very weak admission of culpability and the unsupported claim that all the other boats they've built are fine and Andando is a 'one-off and, as we have seen, Peter is still left with a 'lemon'.

    Worse, Maverick's initial reaction was to publicly roundly attack the delivery skipper and lay much of the blame at his door. A despicable and wretched attempt to 'save the day' doomed to do even more damage to the brand image. Publicly kicking a scape-goat for what has been clearly shown to be a build and/or design problem does you no credit whatsoever. Quite the opposite.

    The reality is that whether or not Peter and Maverick achieve some sort of 'deal' behind the scenes or in front of them - sailors, cruisers and those who are aware of the Andando saga, need to be convinced that Andando really was a solitary 'lemon'. That Maverick are a caring, responsible outfit who can be trusted. And that certainly won't happen by Rudi's merely stating it to be the case. He has to prove it. Further, he has to prove it in a timely manner. The clock has already been ticking far too long ...

    Karen
    Last edited by Karen; 11th August 2014 at 06:25 PM.


  5. #85
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    Default Re: Maverick 400 cracking up

    Karen, I can't argue with anything you have said. My hope is that Rudi and Maverick Yachts may now be prepared to not only admit culpability, but work out a fair resolution to all concerned in the Andando saga. Will that answer everyone's questions/concerns? Of course not. But it would be a great first step and perhaps buyer confidence can be restored if they show they stood behind this product and have either made changes to newer boats to avoid a repetition, or that the construction of Andando was indeed for some explicable reason defective in relation to all other Mavericks.

    Brad

  6. #86
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    Default Re: Maverick 400 cracking up

    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    Hi Brad ...

    I hear what you say, but my feeling is that Rudi's response although better than no response, has come far too late and does far too little to stop the 'bleeding'.

    Maverick seem, not to be too delicate about it, somewhat clueless when dealing with this very damaging episode. The perceived wisdom when mounting a 'damage limitation' exercise is to respond quickly, fully taking the blame where blame is due, and offering a full and generous resolution of the problem. In that manner, it is possible to not only re-establish confidence in the company and brand, but to enhance their joint reputation as a business you can trust. Now remember, this calamity happened what? - 3 years ago? In fact, after all this time, all we have is a very belated, very weak admission of culpability and the unsupported claim that all the other boats they've built are fine and Andando is a 'one-off and, as we have seen, Peter is still left with a 'lemon'.

    Worse, Maverick's initial reaction was to publicly roundly attack the delivery skipper and lay much of the blame at his door. A despicable and wretched attempt to 'save the day' doomed to do even more damage to the brand image. Publicly kicking a scape-goat for what has been clearly shown to be a build and/or design problem does you no credit whatsoever. Quite the opposite.

    The reality is that whether or not Peter and Maverick achieve some sort of 'deal' behind the scenes or in front of them - sailors, cruisers and those who are aware of the Andando saga, need to be convinced that Andando really was a solitary 'lemon'. That Maverick are a caring, responsible outfit who can be trusted. And that certainly won't happen by Rudi's merely stating it to be the case. He has to prove it. Further, he has to prove it in a timely manner. The clock has already been ticking far too long ...

    Karen
    Well said.
    ...throw off the bowlines...sail away from safe harbor...catch the winds in your sails...EXPLORE...DREAM...DISCOVER
    Mark Twain
    www.floatingimpressions.com.au

  7. #87
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    Default Re: Maverick 400 cracking up

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    Hi Brad ...

    I hear what you say, but my feeling is that Rudi's response although better than no response, has come far too late and does far too little to stop the 'bleeding'.

    Maverick seem, not to be too delicate about it, somewhat clueless when dealing with this very damaging episode. The perceived wisdom when mounting a 'damage limitation' exercise is to respond quickly, fully taking the blame where blame is due, and offering a full and generous resolution of the problem. In that manner, it is possible to not only re-establish confidence in the company and brand, but to enhance their joint reputation as a business you can trust. Now remember, this calamity happened what? - 3 years ago? In fact, after all this time, all we have is a very belated, very weak admission of culpability and the unsupported claim that all the other boats they've built are fine and Andando is a 'one-off and, as we have seen, Peter is still left with a 'lemon'.

    Worse, Maverick's initial reaction was to publicly roundly attack the delivery skipper and lay much of the blame at his door. A despicable and wretched attempt to 'save the day' doomed to do even more damage to the brand image. Publicly kicking a scape-goat for what has been clearly shown to be a build and/or design problem does you no credit whatsoever. Quite the opposite.

    The reality is that whether or not Peter and Maverick achieve some sort of 'deal' behind the scenes or in front of them - sailors, cruisers and those who are aware of the Andando saga, need to be convinced that Andando really was a solitary 'lemon'. That Maverick are a caring, responsible outfit who can be trusted. And that certainly won't happen by Rudi's merely stating it to be the case. He has to prove it. Further, he has to prove it in a timely manner. The clock has already been ticking far too long ...

    Karen

    Well said.


    Yes well said indeed!

    How lucky we are though to have this Forum where prospective Cat buyers can discover real life cases of how they might be treated by certain builders if they get problems with their cherished purchase.

    Maverick........Why would you?

  8. #88
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    Default Re: Maverick 400 cracking up

    Ss I see it the issue is very simple.

    It really has little to do with Maverick being contracted to build an NZ approved boat... it has mainly to do with the lemon of a boat that Peter has bought. There is very clear evidence of the sub-standard nature of the boat on the videos. The only response so far from Maverick is that it is a one off - fine let us accept that. So what then is the only acceptable solution to this problem ... admit the mistake, take the boat back and refund Peter.

    If of course, Maverick Catamarans think that anything that has so far been posted on this thread is untrue then they have a duty to mitigate the damages they are suffering and point out the parts that are untrue with the supporting evidence.

    I made a video of the Maverick on the day it was launched at the Cape Town Boat show. That video put Maverick Catamarans on the map instantly and resulted in immediate sales including Peter's boat. Of course all I did was allow the boat builder to show us around the boat but I can tell you. I also thought the company was honourable. I would dearly love to see the honour I assumed was there to now be demonstrated.

    When we were in Cape Town on Suliere Rudi took us with his wife to a lovely meal and were delightful company. I did believe that he was on the right tracks for Maverick Catamarans building good boats with good customer service. I am keeping my fingers crossed that my judgment was not wrong.

    This thread, in no time has passed 5000 views. If this issue is not resolved in the correct manner then I fear greater damage will be inflicted on Maverick Catamarans.

    My strong advice is to do the honourable thing. If it is not done I fear sales will almost stop. You only have to look at what happened to FastCat and St Francis Marine if maverick wish to see the future.

    This forum does takes sides in issues - it takes the side of the truth and is beholden to none. I wish boat builders would stop throwing themselves into the fire on it though
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

  9. #89

    Default Re: Maverick 400 cracking up

    Thank you all for being patient.

    I am now lost for words with this latest "generous" offer! (attached).

    The only other offer was about 9 months ago when they said to "cut my losses, sell Andando and buy another from them at a small discount".

    I also want to point out why arbitration is NOT an option.
    In my contract's fine print it states PHIL SOUTHWELL (the designer) is the person to nominate the arbitrator.

    Also in Mavericks lawyer letter to me on 15th Jan 2014
    "6.2 Clause 13 of the agreement makes provision for certain disputes to be resolved by informal arbitration. However, these provisions only relate to disputes of a technical nature which arise during construction or within the guarantee period and would therefore no longer be applicable".


    I am well over it!
    Attached Files Attached Files

  10. #90
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    Default Re: Maverick 400 cracking up

    I am struggling to believe that this letter comes from the chap I know as Rudi.

    First I will deal with the claimed 'Smear campaign' and the threats of legal action. Claims of 'extortion' because a customer has struggled for 3 years to get these major issues resolved!!!

    If Maverick Catamarans see a customer trying to get his new boat fixed extortion then this puts them in an infamous group of SA cat builders who turn on the customer (and in this case the innocent delivery skipper) rather than face the issues of their own making and responsibility.

    Let me spell this out........
    All that your customer has done Maverick Catamarans is try to get the very serious issues with his boat put right. What you call a 'smear campaign' is simply him reporting the facts. If any of the facts claimed are incorrect then the you should detail what is incorrect and provide the evidence. I will remove any parts of this thread that are not true or even cannot be proven to be true.
    it is your duty if you are claiming to be damaged to mitigate the damage by pointing out the injustice to the world.
    SA law, NZ law and even to some extent USA law is based on UK law and in all those cases telling the truth is not something you can sue someone for!!!

    I am to angry to make any other points at the moment but will point out once again that this forum is, above all else, about the truth. If that truth exposes boat builders or anyone else for what they are in truth are then so be it.

    I will have more to say on this subject but will leave it at that for now.
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

  11. #91

    Default Re: Maverick 400 cracking up

    I actually believe that it not so much what I have said so far that they want to stop, but the truth with the extended version that is still to come.
    If you find this all hard to believe, trust me it gets a lot worse from here on !

  12. #92
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    Default Re: Maverick 400 cracking up

    They were very happy to support the forum when they needed to launch the company. Many on the forum started to put the Maverick 400 on their short lists. We all enjoyed watching the first sails and sales and looking to our own futures, was this an option for me?

    Andondo's first thread was, for me at least, a preview of what we might be able to do. I watched and read and dreamed of my turn. I'd let every one know all about it, let them maybe catch their own visions. Actually, the very best advertisement possible. Don Draper could not done better.

    And now this........

    I would guess, with out any information mind you, that the business simply can't afford to buy the boat back. One more company that is not capitalized sufficiently to be in the boat business.

    I said with Alpha that if the could not afford to own and test #1 then they can't afford to be in business. (at least owner #1 got out $ in tact). For Maverick if you can't afford to buy back a lemon you can't afford to be in business.

    You would have to be crazy to buy a boat from a company that can't, or won't, back up you purchase.

  13. #93
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    Default Re: Maverick 400 cracking up

    +1
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

  14. #94
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    Default Re: Maverick 400 cracking up

    Quote Originally Posted by wannab View Post
    They were very happy to support the forum when they needed to launch the company. Many on the forum started to put the Maverick 400 on their short lists. We all enjoyed watching the first sails and sales and looking to our own futures, was this an option for me?

    Andondo's first thread was, for me at least, a preview of what we might be able to do. I watched and read and dreamed of my turn. I'd let every one know all about it, let them maybe catch their own visions. Actually, the very best advertisement possible. Don Draper could not done better.

    And now this........

    I would guess, with out any information mind you, that the business simply can't afford to buy the boat back. One more company that is not capitalized sufficiently to be in the boat business.

    I said with Alpha that if the could not afford to own and test #1 then they can't afford to be in business. (at least owner #1 got out $ in tact). For Maverick if you can't afford to buy back a lemon you can't afford to be in business.

    You would have to be crazy to buy a boat from a company that can't, or won't, back up you purchase.
    Well said.

    We too were seduced (in a nice way!) by the Maverick video Paul produced...and for quite some time our dreams were also focused around a Maverick, including travelling to Cape Town for a test sail and meetings with Rudi.

    Paul, we too shared your impression(s) of pleasant and honourable company with Rudi & Deslyn...and now we share your obvious disgust at this Forum being labeled as a platform for extortion.

    Most of all, we continue to sympathise and empathise with Peter...and Allan.

    We, like no doubt all of the many, many others observing this thread are drawing our own conclusions....and ours are not very far at all from wannab's above...
    ...throw off the bowlines...sail away from safe harbor...catch the winds in your sails...EXPLORE...DREAM...DISCOVER
    Mark Twain
    www.floatingimpressions.com.au

  15. #95
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    Default Re: Maverick 400 cracking up

    As most know, I had my troubles with St Francis Marine and it took away the pleasure from the first few years of Suliere plus costing a lot. However we end up with a solid good boat. Our issues were as nothing compared to Peter's issues. I really do feel for Peter as well as Alan who was dragged in as a scape goat.

    I can say that Peter approached me for help before anything went public and I tried to communicate with Maverick Catamarans but was politely told to mind my own business. I was not trying to take sides and just wanted a fair discussion. Then I told Peter, as I tell very one that if he publishes on the forum it must pass two tests.
    1. Be true
    2. Be in a position to be able to prove it is true.

    My next hope was that Maverick Catamarans would see sense after this forum exposure and I a bitterly disappointed with their latest letter that had a distinct feeling of deja vows to me. It seems I now have to stand by and watch a hope, a dream called Maverick Catamarans go down the plug hole because, in my view, no company in these days of the internet can afford to disregard publicity like this.

    With my Suliere experience, threads were getting 35,000 to 40,000 reads. This thread will head the same way as more and more is exposed. There are many more sailors visit and read this forum than ever join it. Ignoring it is the equivalent of committing commercial suicide.

    So, so sad.
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

  16. #96
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    Default Re: Maverick 400 cracking up

    I should just add this.
    It is never the forum that destroys a boat builder reputation. This forum has never done that. It is the boat builder's reactions to issues with their boats that destroys their reputation. I have a feeling that that is not well understood in South Africa.
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

  17. #97
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    Default Re: Maverick 400 cracking up

    As a purely market function this boat is proven to be a lemon. No one will buy it. If Rudi felt the boat was OK would you not offer a reasonable sum and resell it? Saving the business? Hell, if I thought it was sound and only needed "sweat equity" I would make an offer..... But that video! Wow, who would buy a boat from Maverick now?

    Buy the boat back, make a reasonable explanation, show you build a reasonable product at a reasonable price, with a proper guarantee. Maybe then people will invest a portion of their life savings into a dream and your product! If not, let the market take you out and we're all the better for you never building another lemon.

    I'm so sorry that Andando had to pay the tuition so we all can learn the lesson.

  18. #98
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    Default Re: Maverick 400 cracking up

    Truly sad. I too was taken in by the original video of the Maverick and put one high on my list for the time when I move up to a new Catamaran to replace my current one (which will be in about 5 years time). Especially after Peter's kind comments and promotion of the boat from the outset, I find it hard bo believe that there could be any suggestion that the airing of this dispute on this site is an effort at extortion. I mistakenly urged calm in hopes that the matter could be privately settled. I had hoped that Maverick Yachts would, when push came to shove, do the right thing in order to mitigate the damage to their reputation. I was wrong.

    The arbitration option, which I gather expired under the original contract, may be the last resort, even if unsatisfactory. Certainly if it were formal and binding arbitration where the parties could mutually agree upon an arbitrator, there is at least a chance of retrieving something for the virtual write-off that Andando appears to be. Of course, this is assuming that Maverick has the funds to to comply with any forced settlement - something which appears to be in serioius doubt. In taking this approach to an admittedly defective product, Maverick Yachts have obviously decided that they are no longer in the business of building catamarans; let's face it, no one with access to the internet would now be prepared to order one.

    I must say, I cannot imagine how I would feel in the circumstances. Not only is this a financial disaster for the purchaser, it is the destruction of a dream for a man who has suffered significant health problems and who was finally able to envision a bright future. As so often occurs, it was a dream that was crushed by an unscrupulous character.

    It is also a sad day for the owners of all other Mavericks - the resale value (to say nothing of their confidence in) their own boats has just taken a hit as large as the iceberg that sunk the Titanic.

    It is, of course, also a sad day for the other manufacturers of catamarans in South Africa. Not that I can have any real sympathy for them, as SABBA is a joke. It is an organization that has no interest in ensuring a quality product and therewith, continued success for the boat building industry in South Africa.

    Finally, it is also a sad day for any legitimate business people who may be interested in starting up the production of a new line of catamarans, providing competition for current manufacturers. Even if well-intentioned and adequately capitalized, this story will remain in the minds of prospective purchasers for a very long time and significantly undermine their prospect of success.

    Brad

  19. #99
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    Default Re: Maverick 400 cracking up

    The comments from those who know Rudi make me wonder if the problem is caused by the new Dutch investor in Maverick, if I remember correctly. It would not be the first time that an incoming venture capitalist/vulture capitalist, plus his dreaded accountant, drive quality down with cost cutting measures and then cut after sales support too. Their lack of common-sense and meanness can be amazing and destroys the company they have invested in. I have met this several times at various clients.

    I just wonder, sadly.

    Mike
    Nothing works on an old boat, except the skipper.

  20. #100

    Default Re: Maverick 400 cracking up

    Actually , that is not true .You may be surprised when all this comes out , you may want to add him to the list todate !
    Me , Allan and Robert .......when giving your kind sympathies !

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