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Thread: Seawind 1160. Resin or Epoxy to repair?

  1. #1

    Default Seawind 1160. Resin or Epoxy to repair?

    We just discovered water ingress through the shaft on the starboard wheel. The timber panel giving the wheel mount support was rotted out, so I have cut out that soggy cardboard, tidied up and have a new piece of marine-ply ready. (I have also obtained a plastic seal so this does not reoccur!)

    This will be my first repair, so I am looking for a bit of guidance on what I need to do.

    I have read polyester resin on top of epoxy-based construction can be a problem. I'm not certain what construction I am looking at. Does anyone know what construction is used above-water on the Seawinds?

    Do I need to glue the timber (with Epiglue or Epiglass HT900 with Glue Extender or something else) to the existing, or can I just use Polyester resin to form a bond?

    Can I use polyester resin (and chopped mat fibreglass obviously) on top?

    Any help appreciated.
    Seawind 1160 XTsea
    Livaboard performing a circumnavigation of Oz. Currently Darwin.
    www.xtsea.com.au

  2. #2

    Default Re: Seawind 1160. Resin or Epoxy to repair?

    The boat is most likely built from vinylester resin. But use epoxy for repairs, it sticks better than any of the ester resins.

    It's alaways a good idea to carry some epoxy for general repair work. West system is good, and comes in handy sizes, and boat-friendly plastic containers. You can get measured-volume pumps too, but I have always mixed epoxy by weight, using electronic kitchen scales.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Seawind 1160. Resin or Epoxy to repair?

    Quote Originally Posted by DevoDave View Post
    We just discovered water ingress through the shaft on the starboard wheel. The timber panel giving the wheel mount support was rotted out, so I have cut out that soggy cardboard, tidied up and have a new piece of marine-ply ready. (I have also obtained a plastic seal so this does not reoccur!)

    This will be my first repair, so I am looking for a bit of guidance on what I need to do.

    I have read polyester resin on top of epoxy-based construction can be a problem. I'm not certain what construction I am looking at. Does anyone know what construction is used above-water on the Seawinds?

    Do I need to glue the timber (with Epiglue or Epiglass HT900 with Glue Extender or something else) to the existing, or can I just use Polyester resin to form a bond?

    Can I use polyester resin (and chopped mat fibreglass obviously) on top?

    Any help appreciated.
    If it is painted finish then you can use epoxy, vinyl-ester or polyester for repairs. If it is gel coat finish and you want to retain the finish then use vinyl-ester resin and gel coat. You can achieve good result with polyester resin and gel coat but polyester does not adhere well to wood so more care would be required wetting out and you should coat any plywood inserts first.

    As a general rule:
    You can use polyester, epoxy and vinyl-ester over polyester.
    You can use polyester, vinyl-ester and epoxy over vinyl-ester.
    You can use vinyl-ester and epoxy over well cured epoxy.
    You can use epoxy over fresh epoxy.

    Gel coat finishes are available for polyester and vinyl-ester but not epoxy (there are some colourings available for epoxy but these are not the same as gel coat). You can paint all three. Vinyl-ester has relatively short shelf life so check date when purchasing.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Seawind 1160. Resin or Epoxy to repair?

    Thanks all. I'll probably use Epiglue to bond the wood, then polyester with matting over the top. The issue is on the inside of a wall so the repair will not be visible.
    Seawind 1160 XTsea
    Livaboard performing a circumnavigation of Oz. Currently Darwin.
    www.xtsea.com.au

  5. #5

    Default Re: Seawind 1160. Resin or Epoxy to repair?

    Epiglue is epoxy. Neither, vinyl-ester or polyester will adhere to this. If you have decided to use polyester for the fix then use polyester paste to bond the wood in place.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Seawind 1160. Resin or Epoxy to repair?

    Does poly paste have enough 'stick' to work as a good glue?
    Seawind 1160 XTsea
    Livaboard performing a circumnavigation of Oz. Currently Darwin.
    www.xtsea.com.au

  7. #7

    Default Re: Seawind 1160. Resin or Epoxy to repair?

    Found a supplier here in Darwin that actually stocks West System stuff so I'll go that route. I'll report results in a couple of days.
    Seawind 1160 XTsea
    Livaboard performing a circumnavigation of Oz. Currently Darwin.
    www.xtsea.com.au

  8. #8

    Default Re: Seawind 1160. Resin or Epoxy to repair?

    Quote Originally Posted by DevoDave View Post
    Does poly paste have enough 'stick' to work as a good glue?
    You can make it yourself by adding micro-fibres to polyester resin.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Seawind 1160. Resin or Epoxy to repair?

    Quote Originally Posted by DevoDave View Post
    Found a supplier here in Darwin that actually stocks West System stuff so I'll go that route. I'll report results in a couple of days.
    That supplier should also stock west system additives, one of which is the glue powder. West system 411 I think. Comes in plastic bags, maybe 1 litre and 4 litre, doesn't cost much, weighs virtually nothing.

    Alternately you can buy Cabosil or colloidal silica, which is a glue powder. (Pretty much what West 411 is)

    (I believe it's the stuff McDonalds uses to make it's thickshakes thick.) :-O

  10. #10

    Default Re: Seawind 1160. Resin or Epoxy to repair?

    Correction: the glue powder is the 403 additive.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Jupiter Fl USA
    Posts
    195

    Default Re: Seawind 1160. Resin or Epoxy to repair?

    403 is ground cotton, excellent for glue. If you add some silica (406) it will not sag. maybe 4 parts 403 to 1 part 406. 406 is HARD to sand.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Seawind 1160. Resin or Epoxy to repair?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter View Post
    If it is painted finish then you can use epoxy, vinyl-ester or polyester for repairs. If it is gel coat finish and you want to retain the finish then use vinyl-ester resin and gel coat. You can achieve good result with polyester resin and gel coat but polyester does not adhere well to wood so more care would be required wetting out and you should coat any plywood inserts first.

    As a general rule:
    You can use polyester, epoxy and vinyl-ester over polyester.
    You can use polyester, vinyl-ester and epoxy over vinyl-ester.
    You can use vinyl-ester and epoxy over well cured epoxy.
    You can use epoxy over fresh epoxy.

    Gel coat finishes are available for polyester and vinyl-ester but not epoxy (there are some colourings available for epoxy but these are not the same as gel coat). You can paint all three. Vinyl-ester has relatively short shelf life so check date when purchasing.
    Polyester doesn't stick very well to anything well cured, even itself. Vinylester is a little better. The best resin to use for secondary bonding, ie gluing cured components, is epoxy, by a big margin.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Seawind 1160. Resin or Epoxy to repair?

    Quote Originally Posted by 44C View Post
    Polyester doesn't stick very well to anything well cured, even itself. Vinylester is a little better. The best resin to use for secondary bonding, ie gluing cured components, is epoxy, by a big margin.
    I don't disagree that epoxy is very good but the Seawind is a Vinylester boat with gel-coat finish so epoxy is inappropriate if the gel-coat finish is to be retained.
    Vinylester is in fact a modified epoxy and will stick to both polyester and epoxy. The only real downside to Vinylester is availability and shelf life. For the repair described there would be nothing wrong with using polyester.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Seawind 1160. Resin or Epoxy to repair?

    After buying epoxy (West System + 403) I received belated advice from the factory that polyester would have been ok as its' mainly poly on walls.

    As I had the stuff already, I completed the repair using West System and the result was excellent. The repair was on a hidden internal wall so no gelcoat to worry about... a good starter project for a newbie.

    I found that weighing the liquids using the wife's electronic cooking scales was a good tip.

    I advise all 1160 owners to check if they have a similar problem. You'll need to have a puller to remove the wheel, and you may need to untension/tension the steering cables to ease off the actual steering box behind the wheel. Catch it early before it becomes a big issue.

    Thanks for all the advice here.
    Seawind 1160 XTsea
    Livaboard performing a circumnavigation of Oz. Currently Darwin.
    www.xtsea.com.au

  15. #15

    Default Re: Seawind 1160. Resin or Epoxy to repair?

    If there's no real load, sure poly would have been fine. But now you have epoxy, which is good for any kind of repairs, even structural ones, in the future.

    I also should have mentioned, but I'm sure the West system supplier would have steered you right - up there at this time of year, it's best to go with the SLOW hardener.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Seawind 1160. Resin or Epoxy to repair?

    Quote Originally Posted by 44C View Post
    up there at this time of year, it's best to go with the SLOW hardener.
    That's all they stocked on the shelf!
    Seawind 1160 XTsea
    Livaboard performing a circumnavigation of Oz. Currently Darwin.
    www.xtsea.com.au

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