Lucy

[mhd]

Yacthworld.com has the Lucy for sale she was commissioned in January 2015 and put into TMM charter fleet in the BVI's, she's listed for 449,000.00 after 50,000.00 reduction from her original asking price.

[Southern Star]

There can be a number of personal reasons for selling a boat so quickly - health reasons, change in financial circumstances, etc. However, there can also be reasons related to the boat itself: the purchaser is very unhappy with the boat and problems have arisen that cannot be economically changed. We know that hull#1 had improperly engineered rudders, coachouse windows and sheet leads that led to its abondonnment in the North Atlantic part way through her maiden voyage. While one can assume that there were fixes in subsequent boats, it does make one wonder if there were other serious issues that showed up over time....

One also suspects that with the dramatic rise in the USD against other currencies since the designs inception, it would be extremely difficult to produce these boats at a competitive price with boats from Europe or South Africa. In the result, I would be very surprised if they are able to survive, let alone provide warranty work on the existing boats.

Brad

[Barra]

Spot on re the currency problems - the timing could not have been worse for them and it shows a lack of business smarts or poor financial advice. Seawind moved production to Vietnam to survive when the AUD took off. Only way Alpha can survive would be to look at similar options. That or the Fed does a reverse 180 with pike and goes for more money printing in a big way. In the mean time maybe Janet Yellen can buy Lucy...

Also putting a boat like that into charter is a great way to devalue it right off the bat and without enough time for the charter fees to stack up against that hit they blew more dough there too. I feel for the owner.

[quickcat49]

Quote:the timing could not have been worse for them and it shows a lack of business smarts or poor financial advice.

I must remember to consult with you regards currency fluctuations. I, as many others, have had investments beaten rather badly of late with the dramatic rise in the US dollar, and drop in the price of oil. The US dollar has been on a tear since mid 2014. if you knew this was going to happen to such an extent, I wish you'd have shared your knowledge with the rest of us. Nobody else seemed to be aware that the US dollar would appreciate 25% against the Canadian dollar, and 20% against the Euro, in about a year. Most investors expected a rise in the US dollar, but not to such an extent, and not so quickly.

I must heartily disagree with your comments. Alpha, and their clients, may be victims of currency fluctuations, but I'd say it's a little harsh to say they're bad businessmen. And putting a Cat in charter, or a house as a rental, is a fairly typical, and sound, business proposition.

I understand fully the problems with starting a business in a bad financial climate. But what you must understand, is that for a Country to pull itself out of such things, requires more than money printing. It requires, among other things, for businesses to take a leap of faith, and invest in their ideas, and employ people. It requires that money start to change hands, so that people can build confidence in the business climate, and start to spend money again. It does not help to poopoo their efforts.

Although I'm not a fan of their design, I applaud Alpha, and anyone who's willing to stick their necks out, and invest in creating jobs. Money may be cheap right now, but the courage to start a boat building business, or many others, is not as easily found. So please, try to keep the vitriolic comments to a minimum.

Just my opinion, of course.

Cheers.
Paul.

[Barra]

Quote:the timing could not have been worse for them and it shows a lack of business smarts or poor financial advice.

I must remember to consult with you regards currency fluctuations. I, as many others, have had investments beaten rather badly of late with the dramatic rise in the US dollar, and drop in the price of oil. The US dollar has been on a tear since mid 2014. if you knew this was going to happen to such an extent, I wish you'd have shared your knowledge with the rest of us. Nobody else seemed to be aware that the US dollar would appreciate 25% against the Canadian dollar, and 20% against the Euro, in about a year. Most investors expected a rise in the US dollar, but not to such an extent, and not so quickly.

I must heartily disagree with your comments. Alpha, and their clients, may be victims of currency fluctuations, but I'd say it's a little harsh to say they're bad businessmen. And putting a Cat in charter, or a house as a rental, is a fairly typical, and sound, business proposition.

I understand fully the problems with starting a business in a bad financial climate. But what you must understand, is that for a Country to pull itself out of such things, requires more than money printing. It requires, among other things, for businesses to take a leap of faith, and invest in their ideas, and employ people. It requires that money start to change hands, so that people can build confidence in the business climate, and start to spend money again. It does not help to poopoo their efforts.

Although I'm not a fan of their design, I applaud Alpha, and anyone who's willing to stick their necks out, and invest in creating jobs. Money may be cheap right now, but the courage to start a boat building business, or many others, is not as easily found. So please, try to keep the vitriolic comments to a minimum.

Just my opinion, of course.

Cheers.
Paul.

Hi Paul


I feel I have been treated rather harshly by your post.

Vitriolic? Hardly. Please re read my post with a cool head. Poo poo their efforts??? where did i do that?

They made some bad decisions. That is clear. Ones that by the time they got to implementation were clearly becoming risky but they forged on. They missed the bigger picture which can happen when your focused on the nuts and bolts so its either bad business that they didnt get financial advice or they got bad advice. Thats not poo pooing as I understand it or being vitriolic is it?????

I mentioned seawind - if they had looked at their situation they could have dodged a bullet. The fact that they didnt when it was a current event at the time is bad business. Its a shame that seawind had to move offshore but its the reality of the global economy we currently live in for better or for worse. I agree with you on the fallacy of money printing for all the good that will do either of us.

For the record on the other forum I did in fact share these views re currency and US production back when alpha first started (you can check if you like) It was a no brainer which way things were going but like most I have been surprised with the speed of the move and that has cost me like many others. (but not the extent and for the record its not done yet unless as I say Yellen does a backflip which is 50/50 right now)

The central banks of the world are in uncharted territory and manufacturers like Alpha are just cannon fodder to them. They will tear down entire economies before they are finally done. Just my opinion.

If you want financial advice on a sailing forum then fine - BUY GOLD.

Lastly on the charter thing (or renting a house) to be clear - chartering for a SHORT period then trying to sell is NEVER a sound business decision, but especially on a near new boat or house. It accelerates depreciation but without a long enough period for the rental payback to offset it.

[quickcat49]

Hi Barra. I'm cool, always was. I don't see that you have been mistreated in my post, but you're right, perhaps using "vitriolic" was a bit harsh. But I did sense an attitude in your post. Perhaps I misread, and am still misreading, what was written.
In any case, the post you found harsh, was intended to have you rethink judging someone else's business decisions without knowing much at all about their circumstances. Both of Alpha, and the owner of Lucy. It did sound like poopooing (sp?) to me.

Is Alpha out of business, or nearly so? The website is still up. If so, my posts are off due to my assumption that they were still in business. In which case, I withdraw the following...

You're entitled to your opinion, of course. But I thought you were being harsh to suggest that they should have seen the rise in the dollar. As you say, neither you or I predicted such a rise.

I don't really like the other forum, so am strictly commenting on what I read in this thread.

I doubt Alpha, or any company as new as they, are in any position to pick up their toys, and move their production offshore.
I understand Seawind's decision, but were they not an established builder before the move? And "offshore" is no panacea for business, I hear sometimes the quality of Chinese, and other "cheap labour" areas, made goods can be suspect. And remotely managing a business like that can be a real chore. Ask "Gunboat" how they fared in that endeavour.

I don't know of these "bad decisions" you mention. Regarding the lost boat? I haven't seen any proof of what went wrong there, the stories seem to change. So are you saying that Alpha made bad decisions, or the owner of the first boat? Or the owner of the second boat?

My understanding was that Lucy was bought for charter, so naturally, she went into charter right away. I don't think they're purposefully chartering for a short time while trying to sell. They have been chartering from the beginning, and now are selling, for whatever reason. The boat is not just a boat, it's a business (more or less), which may have a clientele. Am I mistaken?

If the boat was purchased to charter, and the owner's fortunes changed, well, I think I'd keep her in charter and try to sell her as an income generating boat. It's pretty hard to deny that she's been in charter since the beginning, so I don't see a better course of action. The boat's already lost her virginity, so they might as well keep her making money. To take the boat out of charter, also removes the charter income, which may upset the bank, if the sale is finance related.

I hate to make too many assumptions, and I feel that perhaps your post assumes too much.

My take is that your post assumes:

1. Alpha is doomed, unless they move offshore. (I have not researched this, but I haven't heard of them being in dire straits).
2. Alpha is to blame for the sinking of the first boat. (I haven't seen evidence to support this, I think the blame can be spread rather widely in this case.)
3. Alpha, made poor business decisions, or had bad financial advice. (I don't think either of us knows enough about their business model, or financial status to know. Unless, as I said, they're going out of business, and I haven't heard.)
4. The owner of Lucy can afford to take the boat out of charter, and that breaking the contract they have with their charter company would be financially feasible.
5. Gold will go up.


Crap happens, all the time. I shudder to think how much money I've thrown around after great ideas, which sometimes didn't turn out so great. But there were a few gems in there too, thank goodness.

Much is lost, in time and interpretation, on forums. Perhaps I will have to start a "call in" forum. We could all call in, and hear each other's tone of voice, and learn how to take comments from each person's personality. It'll be a 900 number, of course. Business is business and all...

Again, this entire post is just my opinion.

Stay well.
Paul.

PS, can you say verbose? What a post!

[Barra]

Hi Barra. I'm cool, always was. I don't see that you have been mistreated in my post, but you're right, perhaps using "vitriolic" was a bit harsh. But I did sense an attitude in your post. Perhaps I misread, and am still misreading, what was written.
In any case, the post you found harsh, was intended to have you rethink judging someone else's business decisions without knowing much at all about their circumstances. Both of Alpha, and the owner of Lucy. It did sound like poopooing (sp?) to me.

Is Alpha out of business, or nearly so? The website is still up. If so, my posts are off due to my assumption that they were still in business. In which case, I withdraw the following...

You're entitled to your opinion, of course. But I thought you were being harsh to suggest that they should have seen the rise in the dollar. As you say, neither you or I predicted such a rise.

I don't really like the other forum, so am strictly commenting on what I read in this thread.

I doubt Alpha, or any company as new as they, are in any position to pick up their toys, and move their production offshore.
I understand Seawind's decision, but were they not an established builder before the move? And "offshore" is no panacea for business, I hear sometimes the quality of Chinese, and other "cheap labour" areas, made goods can be suspect. And remotely managing a business like that can be a real chore. Ask "Gunboat" how they fared in that endeavour.

I don't know of these "bad decisions" you mention. Regarding the lost boat? I haven't seen any proof of what went wrong there, the stories seem to change. So are you saying that Alpha made bad decisions, or the owner of the first boat? Or the owner of the second boat?

My understanding was that Lucy was bought for charter, so naturally, she went into charter right away. I don't think they're purposefully chartering for a short time while trying to sell. They have been chartering from the beginning, and now are selling, for whatever reason. The boat is not just a boat, it's a business (more or less), which may have a clientele. Am I mistaken?

If the boat was purchased to charter, and the owner's fortunes changed, well, I think I'd keep her in charter and try to sell her as an income generating boat. It's pretty hard to deny that she's been in charter since the beginning, so I don't see a better course of action. The boat's already lost her virginity, so they might as well keep her making money. To take the boat out of charter, also removes the charter income, which may upset the bank, if the sale is finance related.

I hate to make too many assumptions, and I feel that perhaps your post assumes too much.

My take is that your post assumes:

1. Alpha is doomed, unless they move offshore. (I have not researched this, but I haven't heard of them being in dire straits).
2. Alpha is to blame for the sinking of the first boat. (I haven't seen evidence to support this, I think the blame can be spread rather widely in this case.)
3. Alpha, made poor business decisions, or had bad financial advice. (I don't think either of us knows enough about their business model, or financial status to know. Unless, as I said, they're going out of business, and I haven't heard.)
4. The owner of Lucy can afford to take the boat out of charter, and that breaking the contract they have with their charter company would be financially feasible.
5. Gold will go up.


Crap happens, all the time. I shudder to think how much money I've thrown around after great ideas, which sometimes didn't turn out so great. But there were a few gems in there too, thank goodness.

Much is lost, in time and interpretation, on forums. Perhaps I will have to start a "call in" forum. We could all call in, and hear each other's tone of voice, and learn how to take comments from each person's personality. It'll be a 900 number, of course. Business is business and all...

Again, this entire post is just my opinion.

Stay well.
Paul.

PS, can you say verbose? What a post!

Yes lots of typing but apparently not much reading -

The bad decisions I mention are simply about the financial side of the business. It seemed pretty clear to me. I never mentioned any sinking boat!!!!

Yes i do think they should have seen the rise in the USD - after all it was the FED engineered fall in the USD that got them started. They were playing the USD whether they realised it or not. I said the same on the other forum maybe as long ago as a couple years back from memory so Im not just being harry hindsight. If you think thats harsh then we can agree to disagree on that point.

You did get this bit right - I do think they are doomed under their current business model


The attitude here is all yours. I expressed empathy for the owner for %^^$# sake!

Basically you seem to think I should have qualified my 2 line comment with a "its just my opinion" and then its all cool.

Pedantic.

[quickcat49]

I'll agree to disagree.

Have a nice day.
Paul.

[mhd]

Yacthworld.com has the Lucy for sale she was commissioned in January 2015 and put into TMM charter fleet in the BVI's, she's listed for 449,000.00 after 50,000.00 reduction from her original asking price.

The Lucy was purchased from the Alpha yard by TMM charter company for there BVIS fleet. TMM charters has a fleet of boats both motor and sail and is doing fine, they plucked the Lucy out.