Anchor upgrade for a 2015 Leopard 44

[Zazu]

Hi, I want to upgrade our Delta 55lb (25kg) anchor to something better. I can't see the Rocna and Manson Supreme working with the roll bar, but maybe others have them and fit ok?
Also thinking about a Manson Boss 60lb (27kg) and wonder if heavy and large enough for our 44.
Any advise would be appreciated thanks.
Mark

[colemj]

If the roll bar anchors don't fit, then a Spade is an equal alternative, although maybe more expensive. I've heard good things about the Sarca Excel, but have no experience with it like I do the Rocna and Spade.

Mark

[Zazu]

If the roll bar anchors don't fit, then a Spade is an equal alternative, although maybe more expensive. I've heard good things about the Sarca Excel, but have no experience with it like I do the Rocna and Spade.

Mark

Thanks Mark. Good information.

[victor]

I’m a big fan of the Spade. Seldom have to reset anchor. It’s my opinion that the weight of
the anchor is not more important than the design.

[44C]

Ultimately, weight is more important. The best designed anchor in the world won't hold if it too small. Whereas a shapeless block of concrete will hold a boat in a hurricane if it's heavy enough.

[colemj]

You are describing shape, not weight. Weight is less important than shape, as witnessed by Fortress anchors, aluminum Spades, and others. Weight plays some role in getting an initial bury, but once set in, it is the anchor's shape that does the holding. Actually, weight only plays this role when distributed properly - as witnessed by poor initial setting performance of a CQR compared to an equal weight Delta.

In the case of a cement block, where shape has no role, then it is purely weight.

Mark

[44C]

No, I'm describing weight. A two tonne concrete block mooring will hold when anchors will drag, regardless of the shape.

[victor]

the logic that weight of an anchor is more important then design harkens back to when sailors and yes some of our members believed that a heavy multihull was saver then a lighter one or the one about multihull can’t tack or go up wind. It’s all design we’re in the 21 century, let’s open our eyes and get behind changes that are happening every day. There are many sailors that believe a CQR Is the only good anchor. As mentiond Fortress anchor built a well respected name in light weight anchors that have real holding power. I for one changed out the CQR that came with my vessel for an aluminum Spade weighing much less and seldom ever have to lay out rode more then once.

[victor]

Further to my point when when sailing we generally don’t carry on board a concrete block.
Instead we should want to have the lightest anchor that does the job in our sailing area. That’s where design (shape) comes into play. Another analogy would be foam core vs a solid GRP.
I know it’s hard to accept new designs and reshaping old beliefs but we can only go into the future.

[victor]

Further to my point when when sailing we generally don’t carry on board a concrete block.
Instead we should want to have the lightest anchor that does the job in our sailing area. That’s where design (shape) comes into play. Another analogy would be foam core vs a solid GRP.
I know it’s hard to accept new designs and reshaping old beliefs but we can only go into the future.

[44C]

Further to my point when when sailing we generally don’t carry on board a concrete block.
Instead we should want to have the lightest anchor that does the job in our sailing area. That’s where design (shape) comes into play. Another analogy would be foam core vs a solid GRP.
I know it’s hard to accept new designs and reshaping old beliefs but we can only go into the future.

This should have quoted post number 8 here.

What a load of rubbish. The logic that the weight of an anchor is more important is simply a recognition of a fact.

Yes, a 10 kg third generation anchor will hold better than a 10, maybe even a 20 kg plough type. But how about a 100 kg plough? Or 200 kg?

ULTIMATELY weight is more important. ULTIMATELY a heavier anchor will hold better than a light one.

This is simply a physical fact. It has absolutely nothing to do with boat construction techniques.

The use of a concrete block may have been a bit subtle for you. The point was, that something that wasn't even remotely "anchor shaped" but was simply very heavy, would hold better than the best anchor. Ie. Weight is more important.

The fact that we don't want to be carrying 200 kg anchors is what makes design important.

[smj]

I agree with Victor the design is way more important than the weight. A friend of mine always told me the CQR was a great anchor as he had never drug his, but his CQR was over double the weight that was recommended for his boat. I told him if he wanted to feel really secure he should carry a 1000lb block of concrete on board or actually purchase an anchor that is designed to hold. He now has a Manson Supreme and can’t believe the holding power even though it is much lighter than his previous CQR.

[44C]

So you reckon a 20 kg manson supreme will hold where 2000 kg of concrete will drag?

[colemj]

I think a more fitting comparison would be a steel Spade S100 at 20kg and an aluminum Spade A100 at 8.5kg. The anchors are exactly the same size and shape, but vastly different in weight.

From experience, and from published testing data, they have the same holding power. The aluminum version has more difficulty initially setting in hard bottoms and thick weeds - which is where weight (distributed correctly) is helpful.

Likewise, one could compare an equal-sized steel Danforth and aluminum Fortress, although these are not exactly the same design like the Spades are.

Mark

[smj]

So you reckon a 20 kg manson supreme will hold where 2000 kg of concrete will drag?

No but I reckon a 20kg Manson would hold better than a 40kg CQR because it is a better design. We are talking anchors?

[44C]

So a 20 kg Manson will hold better than a 200 kg cqr? 400 kg?

[44C]

Obviously, mentioning concrete had confused some people.

I'll try again. The statement made was that design is more important than weight.

A friend of mine used to make moorings from old train wheels.

By design, they're kind of the opposite to an anchor. They're wheels! But they work very well as an anchor.

Because they're HEAVY!

[smj]

Obviously, mentioning concrete had confused some people.

I'll try again. The statement made was that design is more important than weight.

A friend of mine used to make moorings from old train wheels.

By design, they're kind of the opposite to an anchor. They're wheels! But they work very well as an anchor.

Because they're HEAVY!

A concrete block or train wheels aren’t anchors but may be considered moorings. If my 20kg Manson holds better than a 40kg CQR then that design is better for my boat than the weight of the CQR. We are on a Multihull’s forum? And we do like to keep our Multihull’s light? Otherwise we may as well build our Multihull’s out of steel.

[44C]

So your anchor is made of aluminum?

[colemj]

Of the three anchors we carry, two are aluminum.

Mark