Simply Amazing Customer Support

[ForumAdmin]

I like it there as well

[Suzan]

Nordic said:
"The boat needed new antifouling plus some odd jobs done, so it was craned out of the water at a dutch boatyard, and set gently down on its minikeels.
This yard is very experienced with building and repairing cats.
The rudders are designed to support the aft sections. As it turned out, the rudder shafts and bearings could not handle this small load, and the whole rudder support area collapsed!
This resulted in the need for major repairs "

Hello Alan,
As office manager at African Cats - The Netherlands and working here from September 1, 2004 continuously I wonder where you got this ridiculous and false information? Or did you wish it happened like that?

Boat #1 sold to Andreas was out of the water for antifouling work and some jobs you normally do at boats when they are ashore.
FYI: Andreas was present there.

How can you say anything about rudder collapsing if this is absolutely not true and you weren't there? Or were you? In my view you deliberately try to decrease the value of Andreas boat by stating facts that are not true.
In 2006 a Dutch EMCI registered yacht surveyor has investigated the boat without finding any problem.

I have seen this boat arrive in IJmuiden after crossing the Atlantic twice in 2005 and sailed with her afterwards to La Rochelle boatshow and back to IJmuiden in 2006. She is a wonderful, fast, convenient and nice boat which I would love to have for myself, if I could afford it........

Further we have a Dutch saying:
'De beste stuurlui staan aan wal' translated: >The best steersmen are ashore< (i.e. Outsiders always think they know better) and I feel this saying meets a lot of you all here discussing things that aren't your business.

Gideon at least is sincerely working on his dreams and I don't know if any of you would have the guts to invest this energy and time in boat building projects like he does.

Further and I stated that before privately to Paul (FORUMADMIN) who as forumadmin claims to want the truth, warranty issues between customers and boatbuilders are things between them. African Cats is taking care of these issues as I happen to know very well.

Truth has always more points of view. Your truths are apparently completely different from mine and African Cats'.

Deliberately trying to tell untrue facts is as far as I know not done.

Paul, Alan and anyone who will react to my post.
If I can avoid it I will not return on this forum.
I foresee a lot of BS coming over me but will not reply publicly or by private messages as on this forum everyone is copy pasting private messages and email and that is absolutely not my kind of thing.
If I hadn't asked Paul specifically not to make my private mail to him public I'm sure he would have done so. At least he respected that request.

Happy sailing for those who own a boat and are actually sailing or are going to sail in the near future.
Regards Suzan

[ireaney]

Suzan
I will reply to you on this not about customer support as I have not directly had experience of this but I will regarding Gideon and things he has not only stated verbally on my one telephone conversation with him about 12 months ago but also on what he has written on the CF forum and this.
He has blatantly lied to me and others by stating that he had built and sold over 65 Fastcats

Hallo Ireaney
I think A forum is meant to give a opinion and that is all I did.
You are right we have only build and sold 65 FastCats over the last 6 years in sizes from 39 ft up to 52 ft. and I am sure more Fusion 40 s have been build and sold with their special way of building and construction. However the Fusion is a total different type of cat for a different public and in no way a treath to us , we are sold out until the end of 2011 and have stopped selling until we can up our production in our new factory.
The FastCat has been extended to 46 ft , the roof has been raised to accomodate a headroom of almost 7 feet thru out the boat . As I stated before I think the concept is good but Quality of workmanship is lacking in the only hull deck parts as coming out of a container, I have seen coming from Thailand at a professional boat builder in South Africa.
Another thing I noticed as a critical boat builder is that in the infusion process the foam was not tight together creating resin rich spots and because of that poor infused foam parts next to these runs.If you want my opninion they have a lot to learn in Thailand before a quality boat comes out.
It is the best way to staple the foam together with nylon staples prior to the infusion process becasue the moment you apply vacuum the foam starts to shift and creates resin runs that we want to avoid at any cost.
This in only my 10 cents worth

Warm Greetings

Gideon Goudsmit

The above was a quote he posted to me on CF, but this is one of many, but I really can't be bothered to prove my point any further, all I am saying why does he not come clean and own up to mistakes or problems, he would improve his moral standings within the community and get a lot more respect.

[imagine2frolic]

Yes, Gideon is working on his dreams at the cost of others suffering. Who will be next, his second cousin to post? It just gets more bizarre with each new poster from the GREETINGS CAMP!

It would seem if all this GREETINGS controversy had any truth from the GREETINGS CAMP. That they would get a lawyer. What we have here are one shot responses, sticking their tongue out, and then running. A bad case of they can't see the forest because of the trees!......i2f

[Nordic]

Originally Posted by Suzan

Nordic said:
"The boat needed new antifouling plus some odd jobs done, so it was craned out of the water at a dutch boatyard, and set gently down on its minikeels.
This yard is very experienced with building and repairing cats.
The rudders are designed to support the aft sections. As it turned out, the rudder shafts and bearings could not handle this small load, and the whole rudder support area collapsed!
This resulted in the need for major repairs "

Hello Alan,
As office manager at African Cats - The Netherlands and working here from September 1, 2004 continuously I wonder where you got this ridiculous and false information? Or did you wish it happened like that?

Boat #1 sold to Andreas was out of the water for antifouling work and some jobs you normally do at boats when they are ashore.
FYI: Andreas was present there.

How can you say anything about rudder collapsing if this is absolutely not true and you weren't there? Or were you? In my view you deliberately try to decrease the value of Andreas boat by stating facts that are not true.
In 2006 a Dutch EMCI registered yacht surveyor has investigated the boat without finding any problem.

Regards Suzan

Suzan,

the information I got was from more than one well respected member of the Dutch Multihull assosciation. (SCTS??) One of them actually has a close family member working at that yard. I'm sure we can get some more evidence if you insist.

Why do you folks continue to claim what is known to be untrue???

The survey would probably not find a problem after it was fixed would it?

Your boss does not seem to take the truth too seriously as often pointed out, however innovative and nice he might be.

Alan

[ForumAdmin]

Suzan

I foresee a lot of BS coming over me but will not reply publicly or by private messages as on this forum everyone is copy pasting private messages and email and that is absolutely not my kind of thing.
If I hadn't asked Paul specifically not to make my private mail to him public I'm sure he would have done so. At least he respected that request.

You sent me an email basically telling me to shut up and asked that it not be posted to the forum so I did not. However in my response I stated that any further emails from us would be published.

As regards the emails between myself and Gideon, I kept his original resigning email off the forum because he asked me to. In the following emails I told him that I would publish them and that he should join the the direct debate.

As regards matters between Gideon and his customers it is up to his customers if they wish to complain or publish. Customer service or the lack of it by a supplier is of great importance to all consumers and this forum has acted very responsibly in the way members have conducted themselves on this issue.

You claim that Gideon will honour his obligations to Butterfly but that does not seem to happen in practice does it?

The multihull world is watching what happens with Butterfly and if they do not get satisfaction it is their right to inform that world and I for one will back them to the hilt in exposing any shortfalls in support from your company.

Words are cheap - its action that is required.

Gideon has constantly published misleading information and then denied he published it. As an example of this he even claimed that he never called the St Francis 48 a Fastcat and a member here published a copy of his old web site showing that he did!!! There was then no answer from Gideon.

He claims to have built boats that he never did time after time.

It is this refusal of Gideon to accept the real world and live in what we have come to call 'Gideon's World' that is the most damaging thing to your company. You are now blowing the last chances of rescue by your attitude on the Butterfly issue.

I know the owners of Butterfly basically like their boat as it would be without the faults and the faults can be fixed ..... its as simple as pay to fix them and end up with a nice public statement of satisfaction from the owners of Butterfly or carry on as you are and expect some devastating facts to emerge.

In my case I published, on the Internet, a survey report on my boat from a qualified surveyor. That report was also shown on UK TV.

I would advise the owners of Butterfly to do the same - get a report from a fully qualified surveyor and then ask you to pay to fix the warranty faults detailed in the report. If you fail to do so then I would advise they publish the report on the Internet.

Unless you act more reasonably towards your customer you will find that the publicity will grow and it will all be the simple truth.

everyone is copy pasting private messages and email and that is absolutely not my kind of thing.

You are assuming there that an email to a client going to some lengths to insult that client is private. They are not - it is up to the client being insulted as to what action to take and lets face it - all that was published was word for word the truth. You seem to be more concerned to cover up what you do and write than actually dealing with the issues.

So what is your 'kind of thing' ? Is it shielding those who write such abusive emails from the consequences of those emails?

As you have already indicated, you will not bother responding on this forum - that is fine, its up to you but if there was anything to defend then I suggest the only way to defend it is to act openly and respond openly - not try to stop the simple truth emerging.

Gideon seems to live in a world were only praise can be accepted. When he is challenged he will even deny what is right in front of him e.g the reading on a weighing scale because it does not fit into his world. He makes totally absurd claims and when uncovered denies ever stating them even though there is a written record of those false claims.

I was not the one who buried Gideon on this thread - he did that all by himself as step by step I tried in vain to get a logical and truthful response out of him.

This matter is of great PUBLIC concern and all you have to do to start putting it right is honour the valid claims of the owners of Butterfly..... and I can tell you that does include the doors and hinges!!!

[Talbot]

It always amazes me the degree of effort willing to be expended in drawing wool over the eyes, when the same amount of energy and cost devoted to customer support would pay much larger dividends

I think the following is fairly apposite

[Nordic]

Originally Posted by Suzan

Hello Alan,
As office manager at African Cats - The Netherlands and working here from September 1, 2004 continuously I wonder where you got this ridiculous and false information? Or did you wish it happened like that?

Boat #1 sold to Andreas was out of the water for antifouling work and some jobs you normally do at boats when they are ashore.
FYI: Andreas was present there.
Regards Suzan

Suzan, can you explain why the boat that both you and your boss Gideon claim that this boat number 0 or 1 or whatever is sold to Andreas, yet it is registered to a company in South Africa run by a Mr. Gideon Goudsmit???

Has Andreas opened a company down there and hired Gideon to run it?

Or is the whole sale to Andreas yet another African Fastcat smoke and mirrors number?

The constant half truths, and direct lies from this company are not likely to help win new customers.

In reality it seems that in 5 years, you have only really managed to sell 2 boats, Butterfly and the one to the Belgian guy who also has had to redo most of the crappy systems put together by your incompetent yard in Durban.

Gideon claimed that you would be delivering 6 or more boats this year, is that another lie, or just optimistic incompetence?

I value loyalty by employees, and you have proven your loyalty to your Boss in an admirable way, but please keep your personal integrity intact. You seemed to be a really nice person when we met at La Rochelle on the Fastcat. I was until then quite interested in maybe buying a boat, but when just a cursory look around showed up the terrible workmanship, I took the Fastcat off my list.

While we into the local sayings. we have one here that says" shoemakers should stick to making shoes", maybe here it should say car dealers stick to selling cars instead of playing boat designer and builder?


Alan

[Suzan]

Alan,
Please come forward with your evidence on Andreas boat then.
S.

[Nordic]

Originally Posted by Suzan

Alan,
Please come forward with your evidence on Andreas boat then.
S.

Sorry, you must mean Gideons boat?

I can get the name of the yard and rough timing, but I doubt that I can get a copy of the bill for the repairs. Maybe you can find the bill and scan it in to prove these repairs were not done, should be easy if you are the office manager.

Make sure you take the correct bill, the first one, not the second one where only antifouling and a bit of cosmetic work was done prior to leasingor whatever happened to Andreas.

Alan

[ForumAdmin]

Suzan
I appreciate that you at least responded.

Please explain to me why Gideon and/or wife have for example claimed that the work on that Butterfly door was not warranty but abuse by the owners when the photographs clearly show the location of the screw holes as plain wrong?

Its is this lack of evidence staring one in the face that seems to be constantly refuted.

I repeat all you have to do is fairly deal with Butterfly to put a stop to this publicity - do it to their satisfaction in return for them stating the truth - they are satisfied.

[Suzan]

Alan
You are making serious accusations and it is legally up to you that you should come with the evidence. If you are not able to do so, you will be prosecuted by our (African Cats) lawyer for defamation, including the Forum owner who spreads it.
Suzan
Office manager
African Cats

[imagine2frolic]

I would think going through that door Suzan. It will open a can of worms for Gideon. Kind of like Pandora's Box. Once open you may not be able to contain what's inside. Gideon has become his own worst enemy, and you seem to be throwing fuel on the fire.......i2f

[ForumAdmin]

Suzan
If you wish to make a complaint that something is libel and published on the forum you should so properly to me. A formal email followed by a letter will suffice. I will take steps to remove such things pending your legal action and or the proof being provided by the member.

However you should be very aware that I have been called a liar on this forum by Gideon and now demand a full retraction of that libel otherwise I too will play the legal card. At no point have I called him a liar although I have accused him of net stating the truth - a fact that I can prove.

You have also accused me of spreading the untruth and threatened legal action against me. What untruth have I spread?

My responsibility as the forum owner is established in law. If you think something is libel you should inform me properly and I will take all reasonable actions to mitigate the problem - you have not done this - just come out with all guns firing at anyone in the way.

The law is there to prevent such things in both directions Suzan.

I am really disgusted that your lack of accountability in dealing with direct questions - the way Gideon seems to go into hiding, the manner in which you have emailed me in the past and the way your business appears to be run.

I will uphold the law but I will also not allow legal bullying - I have the T shirt on this and I assure you that I am only interested in allowing the truth to be published. You have now accused a member of libel and dome so in public. I have given you your answer.

I am becoming more and more fed up with the totally absurd claims Gideon makes and the manner in which he uses others when he goes into hiding.

How about actually dealing with some questions. Basic questions as to who owns what go unanswered. Basic questions about advertising other makes of boats as Fastcats are denied and then the proof produced on this forum .... there is a long, long list of such things.

So Suzan you have the means in your power to deal with these issues and I have the means in my power to take action against those who in public call me a liar .... and I have the resources to follow through.

[imagine2frolic]

Suzan,

Take a look around. Everyone here is either in the process of buying a multi, searching for one, or already own one. I would think you would undetsand that most here have the means to protect themselves. Gideon has left a trail of crumbs from the enchanted forest to the world of reality. His trail is full of history that is full of the truth.......i2f

[Ozmultis]

Originally Posted by Suzan

Alan
You are making serious accusations and it is legally up to you that you should come with the evidence. If you are not able to do so, you will be prosecuted by our (African Cats) lawyer for defamation, including the Forum owner who spreads it.
Suzan
Office manager
African Cats

OH dear, tenuous grasp of the law at best - superfluous grandstanding more likely. There is no Defamtory conduct here - even if there were - where is the wrong suffered - what is the demonstrable loss - And even if there was a loss - truth is a complete defence.

Which jurisdiction do you intend to launch proceedings in.

I always advice folk to read QBVII by Leon Uris before they worry about mounting a defamation case. Rough story is that a guy writes a book and another chap thinks he has been defamed and launches legal action - of course once he does that it allows the book author to dredge up every single bad thing that the "victim" had ever done in his life.

Rather than make wild threats - argue the evidence - convince us all that Paul is wrong and Gideon is right. Or not

I won't be buying your boat. I have only just bought one from a reputable Australian Company - and If I every buy another boat - it too will be from a reputable Australian company.

[scotte]

Interesting - the www.africancatstest.nl site "mysteriously" disappeared after links to that site were posted here showing proof of African Cats changing their story about claiming they built what is actually a St. Francis boat. Perhaps they are scrambling madly to patch up reputation issues (which they have clearly brought entirely upon themselves by their own actions), so a legal threat is no surprise, really.

There is only one truth. Everything else is a fantasy.

[KGP]

Originally Posted by Suzan

Alan
You are making serious accusations and it is legally up to you that you should come with the evidence. If you are not able to do so, you will be prosecuted by our (African Cats) lawyer for defamation, including the Forum owner who spreads it.
Suzan
Office manager
African Cats

I find it hard to believe that those are the words of an office manager. Or perhaps you are also corporate lawyer of the African Cats hobby? I do, however, find it perfectly reasonable to think that those are dictated words from someone who appears to be so spineless that they cannot defend themselves with their own words by posting directly, thereby selectively picking what they think are opportune times and using an employee to slant or silent whatever might be posted or reported, now and in the future.

[KGP]

Originally Posted by scotte

Interesting - the www.africancatstest.nl site "mysteriously" disappeared after links to that site were posted here showing proof of African Cats changing their story about claiming they built what is actually a St. Francis boat. Perhaps they are scrambling madly to patch up reputation issues (which they have clearly brought entirely upon themselves by their own actions), so a legal threat is no surprise, really.

There is only one truth. Everything else is a fantasy.

That is funny! Not much they can do about this one though: http://web.archive.org/web/200406220..._inf.asp?id=24

And there are screen shots...

[scotte]

http://www.boatingbusiness.com/archi...ric_drive,_sir

From April, 2004:

More recently, Dutch catamaran builder African Cats confirmed to BB that it intends to fit the STI drive as standard on its range of cats and plans to install the first electric drive on one of its boats by Easter.

In what is undoubtedly a big boost for the STI, in future, all of Dutch company's large sailing catamarans will have STI's electric drive - rather than diesel engines - as standard equipment, the first example being the company's Fast Cat 435.

We're still waiting for that drive system! I guess the article didn't say Easter of what year!!