Multihulls4us Forums  

Go Back   Multihulls4us Forums > Multihull Owner Forums > Fastcat Owners Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 17th November 2009, 08:15 AM
jono's Avatar
jono jono is offline
Boat: boatless for now
Mr OZ
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Land Downunder...OZ
Posts: 148
Default Re: Fastcat electrical drive problems

Karen,

Good news..
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 17th November 2009, 10:00 AM
ForumAdmin's Avatar
ForumAdmin ForumAdmin is offline
Boat: St Francis 50 - Suliere
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: 50% Uk 50% on my boat
Posts: 5,236
Default Re: Fastcat electrical drive problems

Great news and lets hope they put all the problems right for you and there is no need to campaign any more! That would be the best outcome possible.

Iy is interesting that they care enough about the forum to ask for the matter to be posted here. The first sign of the survival instinct being present
__________________
Safe Sailing
Paul
Blog: www.suliere.com
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 17th November 2009, 04:42 PM
therapy's Avatar
therapy therapy is offline
Boat: Back to just the Jon boat.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: West Central Florida
Posts: 978
Default Re: Fastcat electrical drive problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karen View Post
For reasons beyond our ken and control, this is proving a surprisingly slow exercise.
I'll say!
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 17th November 2009, 07:42 PM
IreAneY's Avatar
IreAneY IreAneY is offline
Boat: 1999 - Sunstar 32 - 'BABIBA'
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Devon, UK
Posts: 2,792
Default Re: Fastcat electrical drive problems

Karen & Dick
Me also, great news, I hope the box of bits are the ones you want to get the problems sorted, and then all you have to do is sort out the labour warranty issues.
Then you are free, keep writing the blog, 'tis good reading m'dear'
Cheers
Ian
__________________
Cheers,
http://www.websmileys.com/sm/animal/002.gif
Ian
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 17th November 2009, 08:17 PM
jkd jkd is offline
Boat: holding
Brit Basher
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: S.E. Florida
Posts: 1,213
Default Re: Fastcat electrical drive problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by ireaney View Post
I hope the box of bits are the ones you want to get the problems sorted
Ian
Indeed, not wanting to be a party pooper but I hope its not a box of rocks.
Hoping for the best,

John
__________________
"The floggings will continue until morale improves"!
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 17th November 2009, 08:26 PM
ka8uet ka8uet is offline
Boat: seeking cat to live aboard
First Lady of America
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bay View, Ohio
Posts: 549
Default Re: Fastcat electrical drive problems

I certainly hope that there will be more good news to come! Perhaps now they will accept the surveyer's report and put right ALL the issues. We will be waiting and hoping!
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 17th November 2009, 08:33 PM
IreAneY's Avatar
IreAneY IreAneY is offline
Boat: 1999 - Sunstar 32 - 'BABIBA'
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Devon, UK
Posts: 2,792
Default Re: Fastcat electrical drive problems

I was wondering if it might be full of toilet rolls as the man is so full of ****
I too am hoping for the best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkd View Post
Indeed, not wanting to be a party pooper but I hope its not a box of rocks.
Hoping for the best,

John
__________________
Cheers,
http://www.websmileys.com/sm/animal/002.gif
Ian
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 18th November 2009, 12:37 PM
biochemist biochemist is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 20
Default Re: Fastcat electrical drive problems

I wonder if anybody has seen the latest from Seawing. They are seriously contemplating replacing all high-tech equipment, including: Solomon engines, Panda generators, Capi 2 system, Tack Tick, batteries, etc. , because they do not live up to expectations and are unreliable.

It is a pity that new developments are put on the market without actually testing them thoroughly, and that potentially valid claims are sold as the proven truth. I really hope that Dave Tether (the developer of the Solomon engines) gets his act together and that the Hymar project research leads to a commercially viable system (cf. http://www.electricmarinepropulsion....MP-Update.html). I still believe in Electrical or diesel/electric propulsion, but it must be done properly and unproven marketing claims do not help in the development of such a system.

Below is a copy from the seawing website (in Dutch). Seawing decided not to translate this to English so I will honor that.


"12/11/09 Dakar - Saloum - Dakar.


....


O ja, wij zijn gezakt voor het Amazone examen. We konden maar 4.5kn door water maken en waren na een uur de laatste van de groep. Er werd aan 6kn gevaren. Onze 2 generatoren en 100% power deden niet wat AFC ons ooit beloofde tijdens de contract ondertekening. Geen 8kn dus maar slechts 4.5kn. We hebben nog vaste props in reserve en die hebben een beter rendement. Zien wat dat geeft. Maar we hebben er geen goede hoop op. De Amazone zal ons voorbij gaan vrezen we.
OP de terugweg naar Dakar is het wind op kop. We motorzeilen uren lang. De salon ijskast geeft het op. Druk weg zo blijkt later maar de oorzaak daar zoekt nu een Dakar fridge man achter. Ook stopt een generator met elektriciteit te produceren om de dag later dit weer wel te doen. Vast oververhit geraakt. Ook de Tack Tick wind meter heeft weer kuren en Capi 2 doet al helemaal gek door steeds overstroom alarmen te geven at random. Al met al stelt het hele hybride verhaal ons somber en kan ik maar besluiten dat we ons degelijk vergist hebben om dit pad te bewandelen. Vroeg of laat als we een goede werf vinden gaat misschien alles er wel uit en gaan we voor de klassieke sail drives. Dan kunnen we misschien wel 8kn lopen en dat betekend ook veiligheid. Samen met het hybride verhaal gaan dan de solomon motoren, 2 zware generatoren, 4 DC/DC converters, 12 loodzware batterijen, meters zware koper leidingen, verdeelkasten en zekeringen, we winnen een kast, we winnen berg plaats onder het bed en we winnen vooral gewicht. Maar vooral, we winnen een boel trammelant met al dat high tech gedoe dat toch maar steeds weer stuk gaat hier op het zilte water. En als je denk dat we groener zijn dan de klassieke aandrijving, vergeet het maar, we verbruiken meer diesel dan anderen omdat er teveel redementsverliezen zijn met al onze systemen alvorens enig energie aan de props aankomt. " .



Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 20th November 2009, 01:18 AM
BigCat's Avatar
BigCat BigCat is offline
Boat: Building 65' sailing catamaran
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: near Seattle
Posts: 1,079
Default Re: Fastcat electrical drive problems

h yes, we have failed the exam Amazon. We konden maar 4.5kn door water maken en waren na een uur de laatste van de groep. We could only 4.5kn water and were one hours after the last of the group. Er werd aan 6kn gevaren. It was to 6kn hazards. Onze 2 generatoren en 100% power deden niet wat AFC ons ooit beloofde tijdens de contract ondertekening. Our 2 and 100% power generators did not know what AFC ever promised us during the contract signing. Geen 8kn dus maar slechts 4.5kn. Not so 8kn only 4.5kn. We hebben nog vaste props in reserve en die hebben een beter rendement. We have fixed props in reserve and who have a better return. Zien wat dat geeft. See what that does. Maar we hebben er geen goede hoop op. But we have no hope of good. De Amazone zal ons voorbij gaan vrezen we. The Amazon will pass us we fear.
OP de terugweg naar Dakar is het wind op kop. On the way to Dakar was windy. We motorzeilen uren lang. We motor sail for hours. De salon ijskast geeft het op. The lounge refrigerator gives up. Druk weg zo blijkt later maar de oorzaak daar zoekt nu een Dakar fridge man achter. Pressure off later but it appears there is now investigating the cause of a man behind Dakar fridge. Ook stopt een generator met elektriciteit te produceren om de dag later dit weer wel te doen. Also stop with a generator to produce electricity for the later days of doing this again. Vast oververhit geraakt. Fixed overheated. Ook de Tack Tick wind meter heeft weer kuren en Capi 2 doet al helemaal gek door steeds overstroom alarmen te geven at random. The Tick Tack wind meter and weather cycles Capi 2 does all crazy by always giving overcurrent alarms at random. Al met al stelt het hele hybride verhaal ons somber en kan ik maar besluiten dat we ons degelijk vergist hebben om dit pad te bewandelen. All in all, the entire hybrid us sad story and I can only conclude that we indeed have the wrong path to take. Vroeg of laat als we een goede werf vinden gaat misschien alles er wel uit en gaan we voor de klassieke sail drives. Sooner or later if we find a good site is perhaps all the money out and go for the classic sail drives. Dan kunnen we misschien wel 8kn lopen en dat betekend ook veiligheid. Then we might even run 8kn and that also means safety. Samen met het hybride verhaal gaan dan de solomon motoren, 2 zware generatoren, 4 DC/DC converters, 12 loodzware batterijen, meters zware koper leidingen, verdeelkasten en zekeringen, we winnen een kast, we winnen berg plaats onder het bed en we winnen vooral gewicht. Together with the hybrid story than the Solomon engines, 2 heavy generators, 4 DC / DC converters, 12 heavy batteries, meters heavy copper cables, distribution boxes and fuses, we win a case, we win mountain place under the bed and we would mostly weight. Maar vooral, we winnen een boel trammelant met al dat high tech gedoe dat toch maar steeds weer stuk gaat hier op het zilte water. But above all, we win a lot Zine with all that high tech stuff but that it always goes bad here in the salty water. En als je denk dat we groener zijn dan de klassieke aandrijving, vergeet het maar, we verbruiken meer diesel dan anderen omdat er teveel redementsverliezen zijn met al onze systemen alvorens enig energie aan de props aankomt. And if you think we are greener than the conventional drive, forget it, we consume more diesel than others because there ment too much reason to lose all our systems before any energy to the props arrive. " . ".

Google translation, so a little odd.
__________________
Currently concentrating on http://earthnurture.com .
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 21st November 2009, 12:58 AM
ka8uet ka8uet is offline
Boat: seeking cat to live aboard
First Lady of America
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bay View, Ohio
Posts: 549
Default Re: Fastcat electrical drive problems

I'm sorry to hear about the Solomon drive problem, as I had thought from the initial concept and further reading that it was a workable drive, at least in theory. Not so much in practice, it seems!
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 21st November 2009, 05:38 AM
BigCat's Avatar
BigCat BigCat is offline
Boat: Building 65' sailing catamaran
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: near Seattle
Posts: 1,079
Default Re: Fastcat electrical drive problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by ka8uet View Post
I'm sorry to hear about the Solomon drive problem, as I had thought from the initial concept and further reading that it was a workable drive, at least in theory. Not so much in practice, it seems!
After doing a little math, I didn't think it was feasible. There's just too little power in wind generators and in solar power. Combine this with heavy batteries and losses in all parts of the system - friction, heat, low conversion rates, etc., and it just wasn't going to be possible in average wind and sunshine conditions, given the power needed to make a boat motor at a decent speed for a reasonable duration.

Fortunately, sailing catamarans are already very efficient hybrids, being able to sail when there is wind and being able to motor on just one engine when winds and seas aren't putting up a lot of resistance.
__________________
Currently concentrating on http://earthnurture.com .
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 21st November 2009, 08:48 PM
2hullsgood1hullbad's Avatar
2hullsgood1hullbad 2hullsgood1hullbad is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Grenada, boatless...
Posts: 197
Default Re: Fastcat electrical drive problems

I don't know much about Solomon electric drives, or any other electric drives for that matter, but let's not forget that this particular Solomon system was put together and installed by African Cats - as we all know the quality of their workmanship and installations leave a lot to be desired so it's no great surprise that this particular setup has not performed too well.

Personally I wouldn't trust African Cats to assemble a wheelbarrow.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 22nd November 2009, 06:21 AM
scotte's Avatar
scotte scotte is offline
Boat: Privilege 39
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Pacific Ocean/N. American coast
Posts: 437
Default Re: Fastcat electrical drive problems

English translation is on the Seawing blog now:

"The current hybrid configuration consisting of two shaft driven electric motors of 4.6 KW each, does not allow this as we can do 4.5 - 5 kts absolute maximum under full power. Frank reckons that if given a chance he will dispose of the whole hybrid system and install diesel saildrives instead. He is very disappointed about the performance and on top has incurred substantial financial loss."

I read they actually have to run two generators to power the system, and their fuel consumption is much higher than other boats while only being able to run at 4.5 knots. Seems pretty obvious this system was not ready for primetime.

Here's a question for the forum: At what hull # would you consider African Cats a success?
__________________
Our blog: svjaneo.com
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 22nd November 2009, 07:49 AM
BigCat's Avatar
BigCat BigCat is offline
Boat: Building 65' sailing catamaran
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: near Seattle
Posts: 1,079
Default Re: Fastcat electrical drive problems

Here's a question for the forum: At what hull # would you consider African Cats a success?

A success in what sense? I would think that he would have to have a substantial majority of owners of his products be satisfied customers to be a success in terms of having a reputable product. It's a business, despite the 'hobby' propaganda GG floated, so I'd say he has to make a reasonable return on his equity and have a reasonable backlog of orders relative to his production capacity to be a business success. Since pretending to have this has been a part of his promotional campaign, the only way to tell is if the company continues to survive. :
__________________
Currently concentrating on http://earthnurture.com .
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 28th November 2009, 02:06 PM
jono's Avatar
jono jono is offline
Boat: boatless for now
Mr OZ
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Land Downunder...OZ
Posts: 148
Default Re: Fastcat electrical drive problems

Quote Seawing:
Our 2 and 100% power generators did not know what AFC ever promised us during the contract signing. Also stop with a generator to produce electricity for the later days of doing this again. Sooner or later if we find a good site is perhaps all the money out and go for the classic sail drives. Together with the hybrid story than the Solomon engines, 2 heavy generators, 4 DC / DC converters, 12 heavy batteries, meters heavy copper cables, distribution boxes and fuses, we win a case, we win mountain place under the bed and we would mostly weight. All in all, the entire hybrid us sad story and I can only conclude that we indeed have the wrong path to take. And if you think we are greener than the conventional drive, forget it, we consume more diesel than others because there ment too much reason to lose all our systems before any energy to the props arrive. Unquote:

You think 'Factory Manager' Gideon Goudsmit would be keeping a low profile now with Seawing above exposed, but no Planet Gideon is oblivious to anyone but himself...'hey there is nothing wrong with my Green Motion System'. fastcat435 was last seen riding off into the sunset, with everything right in his world...Jono

Last edited by jono; 28th November 2009 at 03:13 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 28th November 2009, 03:27 PM
Talbot's Avatar
Talbot Talbot is offline
Boat: Privilege 37
Knowledgable Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Stavanger, Norway
Posts: 2,788
Default Re: Fastcat electrical drive problems

For a time I was drawn to the Privilege 395 in the States that was for sale (and had been for a long time) This boat was powered by solomons electric motors.

I could not afford her anyway,

Even If I had purchased her, the very first thing I planned to do was to rip those motors out and go with conventional power.

I believe that the present generation of electric systems have a place for coastal cruising, but long distance with the present technology is a no-no.

The engines themselves are suitable, and I like the concept and the ease of control.

The present battery systems and whole recharge system is too complex and too inefficient for me.
__________________
"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and miss."
Robert A Heinlein
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 30th November 2009, 02:54 AM
ka8uet ka8uet is offline
Boat: seeking cat to live aboard
First Lady of America
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bay View, Ohio
Posts: 549
Default Re: Fastcat electrical drive problems

If the battery technology now being developed is able to be used, would you then think that the electric drive engines would be suitable? How about for someone like me, since I have no interest in crossing oceans, only joining the snowbirds on the ICW moving from Lake Erie to Florida, perhaps crossing to Burmuda or the Bahamas. I intend living on the boat. Would that be a suitable use for the electric drives?
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 30th November 2009, 03:12 AM
BigCat's Avatar
BigCat BigCat is offline
Boat: Building 65' sailing catamaran
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: near Seattle
Posts: 1,079
Default Re: Fastcat electrical drive problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by ka8uet View Post
If the battery technology now being developed is able to be used, would you then think that the electric drive engines would be suitable? How about for someone like me, since I have no interest in crossing oceans, only joining the snowbirds on the ICW moving from Lake Erie to Florida, perhaps crossing to Burmuda or the Bahamas. I intend living on the boat. Would that be a suitable use for the electric drives?
You would be using your engines much more in that kind of cruising than you would if you were ocean voyaging. Aside from the batteries, the question arises, how will you charge the batteries? I don't think electric systems are good for much but plugging in to AC power on shore, and using for motoring in and out of marinas. FP's system was designed for a range of 12 miles at no great speed.
__________________
Currently concentrating on http://earthnurture.com .
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 30th November 2009, 06:48 AM
Talbot's Avatar
Talbot Talbot is offline
Boat: Privilege 37
Knowledgable Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Stavanger, Norway
Posts: 2,788
Default Re: Fastcat electrical drive problems

I agree with Big Cat. Definitely not suitable for your intended use.
__________________
"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and miss."
Robert A Heinlein
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 1st December 2009, 03:14 AM
ka8uet ka8uet is offline
Boat: seeking cat to live aboard
First Lady of America
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bay View, Ohio
Posts: 549
Default Re: Fastcat electrical drive problems

Ah well, I had hoped for better. However, it seems that it's not yet ready for prime time! I have been reading on other threads that the Torqueedo also has some quality issues at times. But then, so do most mechanical engines. Such is life.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
african cats, fastcat, fastcat 605, gideon goudsmit, green motion

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Template-Modifications by TMS
copyright@PB Consulting 2008