Multihulls4us Forums  

Go Back   Multihulls4us Forums > Multihull Sailing Forum

Multihull Sailing Forum Discuss any topic relating to multihull sailing

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 6th July 2010, 04:40 PM
searenitysail's Avatar
searenitysail searenitysail is offline
Boat: TPI Lagoon 35ccc designed by Morrelli & Melvin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Great South Bay, Long Island, NY USA
Posts: 776
Default 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

FYI,

Found this inserted in the CF thread I mentioned elsewhere. I think the monomaran sailors are all jumping up and down over there, but figured our Forum members would want to know the details to add to our own knowledge base.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...BAN41E9JJ6.DTL

Later post stated it was a PDQ 32 but no details were provided, so if anyone knows the particulars please share.

Marshall
__________________
"People sail for fun and no one has yet convinced me that it's more fun to go slow than it is to go fast." -- Dick Newick
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 6th July 2010, 06:09 PM
JustCatamarans JustCatamarans is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Ft. lauderdale
Posts: 212
Default Re: 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

Its not a monomaran, its a halfboat
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 6th July 2010, 08:10 PM
IreAneY's Avatar
IreAneY IreAneY is offline
Boat: 1999 - Sunstar 32 - 'BABIBA'
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Devon, UK
Posts: 2,792
Default Re: 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

Quote:
Originally Posted by searenitysail View Post
FYI,

Found this inserted in the CF thread I mentioned elsewhere. I think the monomaran sailors are all jumping up and down over there,
Trouble is the 'Monomaran' or 'Half-a-boat' owners forget that when theirs capsize they normally sink, therefore, and a BIG therefore they never make the news, COZ we don't hear about it COZ there are NO survivors :

Wish I hadn't have been banned from CF, coz I would love to have said this and wound up some of their delinquent members such as the twat JOLI, Ex-Calif and FrankZ.
__________________
Cheers,
http://www.websmileys.com/sm/animal/002.gif
Ian
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 6th July 2010, 08:26 PM
jkd jkd is offline
Boat: holding
Brit Basher
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: S.E. Florida
Posts: 1,213
Default Re: 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

Careful Ian, did you see it was a 32' cat that flipped?

What size is yours again?

John
__________________
"The floggings will continue until morale improves"!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 6th July 2010, 09:11 PM
IreAneY's Avatar
IreAneY IreAneY is offline
Boat: 1999 - Sunstar 32 - 'BABIBA'
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Devon, UK
Posts: 2,792
Default Re: 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkd View Post
Careful Ian, did you see it was a 32' cat that flipped?

What size is yours again?

John
Not mine, she is only 31 feet 10 inches (and they think it is a PDQ a considerably less beam) and it is still waiting for the engine head valve seats, should have been finished today but no news so I will be on that phone tomorrow and it will be RED HOT

I WANT TO PLAY, AND PLAY NOW
__________________
Cheers,
http://www.websmileys.com/sm/animal/002.gif
Ian
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 6th July 2010, 11:18 PM
ForumAdmin's Avatar
ForumAdmin ForumAdmin is offline
Boat: St Francis 50 - Suliere
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: 50% Uk 50% on my boat
Posts: 5,253
Default Re: 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

Quote:
I WANT TO PLAY, AND PLAY NOW
So do I
__________________
Safe Sailing
Paul
Blog: www.suliere.com
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 7th July 2010, 04:40 AM
Maxingout's Avatar
Maxingout Maxingout is offline
Boat: Privilege 39 Catamaran
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 862
Default Re: 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

It would appear to me that smaller and lighter cats are easier to flip.

It would be interesting to see statistics on the size and beam of cruising cats that have wind induced capsize or wave induced capsize. I wonder if anyone has that data?

Intuitively, I feel that bigger is safer, but I may be wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 7th July 2010, 08:17 AM
D&D's Avatar
D&D D&D is offline
Boat: SV CatNirvana, Lagoon 440, #406
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yamba, Australia base...now cruising
Posts: 292
Default Re: 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxingout View Post
Intuitively, I feel that bigger is safer, but I may be wrong.
If one simply extends the discussion down to the Hobie level, an inverse relationship between size and propensity to flip (the bigger the vessel, the less likely to flip) seems pretty compelling.

ireaney...are you really banned from CF?!? How'd you mange to do that?? If so and if it makes you feel any better, someone we know pretty well (under the 'handle' D&D!) pointed out on that CF thread that the troubled cat in that discussion floated thus saving her crew...and mono's (half-boats) are much more likely to sink. Then another of our countrymen -- Go the Aussies! -- volunteered that he "just finished reading three coronial files on deaths on sunken monos". So perhaps the cats are being well defended over there in your absence.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 7th July 2010, 08:43 AM
IreAneY's Avatar
IreAneY IreAneY is offline
Boat: 1999 - Sunstar 32 - 'BABIBA'
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Devon, UK
Posts: 2,792
Default Re: 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

I would agree to a point but I think there are a lot of factors that would affecting all sizes, naturally a heavier and bigger boat will handle larger seas much easier.

My cat is 32 feet long with a 17.5 foot beam, there are bigger prouts with beams that are 3 feet less than mine, so you have a stability factor there, it will depend a lot on built in buoyancy, plus it depends on whether the person sailing it has too much sail up etc.

My little boat according to the stats can sail with full sail up to 29knts of wind (I wouldn't, because I am a coward) but then this is without taking the sea state into account.

At the end of the day always be cautious and reef, heave to, sea anchor etc to the conditions and your ability, I suppose
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxingout View Post
It would appear to me that smaller and lighter cats are easier to flip.

It would be interesting to see statistics on the size and beam of cruising cats that have wind induced capsize or wave induced capsize. I wonder if anyone has that data?

Intuitively, I feel that bigger is safer, but I may be wrong.
__________________
Cheers,
http://www.websmileys.com/sm/animal/002.gif
Ian
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 7th July 2010, 08:48 AM
IreAneY's Avatar
IreAneY IreAneY is offline
Boat: 1999 - Sunstar 32 - 'BABIBA'
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Devon, UK
Posts: 2,792
Default Re: 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

Quote:
Originally Posted by D&D View Post
ireaney...are you really banned from CF?!? How'd you mange to do that?? If so and if it makes you feel any better, someone we know pretty well (under the 'handle' D&D!) pointed out on that CF thread that the troubled cat in that discussion floated thus saving her crew...and mono's (half-boats) are much more likely to sink. Then another of our countrymen -- Go the Aussies! -- volunteered that he "just finished reading three coronial files on deaths on sunken monos". So perhaps the cats are being well defended over there in your absence.
Yes, as is Paul, banned 3 times, different names, first time pushed for answers from a lying manufacturer a bit too hard, second time directly confronted 2 moderators accusing them of being puppets and condoning lying and ultimately Nazis, third time for winding up the mono section as a gay lawyer with a hairdresser boyfriend called Sebastian

Anyway I am glad that you are there backing up the multihulls.
__________________
Cheers,
http://www.websmileys.com/sm/animal/002.gif
Ian
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 7th July 2010, 09:24 AM
D&D's Avatar
D&D D&D is offline
Boat: SV CatNirvana, Lagoon 440, #406
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yamba, Australia base...now cruising
Posts: 292
Default Re: 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

Quote:
Originally Posted by ireaney View Post
pushed for answers from a lying manufacturer a bit too hard...directly confronted 2 moderators accusing them of being puppets and condoning lying and ultimately Nazis...winding up the mono section as a gay lawyer with a hairdresser boyfriend called Sebastian
TOO GOOD!

WHAT A GREAT EXAMPLE TO US ALL!!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 7th July 2010, 09:56 AM
IreAneY's Avatar
IreAneY IreAneY is offline
Boat: 1999 - Sunstar 32 - 'BABIBA'
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Devon, UK
Posts: 2,792
Default Re: 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

Basically the point I was trying to make over there was that we are all adults and within reason should be able to say what we like, but I felt like I was back at school and the School Prefects kept telling me off, so I just let rip, and thanks to Paul we can all be grown up over here (maybe some of us can be a little immature at times, hey ho let's also have some fun), and again say what we like (within reason).
Quote:
Originally Posted by D&D View Post
TOO GOOD!

WHAT A GREAT EXAMPLE TO US ALL!!
__________________
Cheers,
http://www.websmileys.com/sm/animal/002.gif
Ian
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 7th July 2010, 10:01 AM
D&D's Avatar
D&D D&D is offline
Boat: SV CatNirvana, Lagoon 440, #406
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yamba, Australia base...now cruising
Posts: 292
Default Re: 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

Quote:
Originally Posted by ireaney View Post
we are all adults and within reason should be able to say what we like...and thanks to Paul we can all be grown up over here (maybe some of us can be a little immature at times, hey ho let's also have some fun), and again say what we like (within reason).
Hear! Hear!

It was our pleasure to meet Paul in Cape Town earlier this year and thank him personally for his efforts with this Forum.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 7th July 2010, 11:53 AM
dmmbruce dmmbruce is online now
Boat: 26 ft Heavenly Twin - TWO MINDS
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Stratford upon Avon, boat Poole
Posts: 3,198
Default Re: 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

I have a question for our American members on the forum. This comes from comments by an American friend who sails monos, but knows a bit about cats.

His theory is that sailing conditions on the east side of USA are generally fairly benign. Seas of 4ft are considered quite large. So people want their 'cruising cats' powered up with larger rigs so as to enjoy the stability and the easy sailing. Hence the current trend for ever bigger rigs, and boats that are more 'cruiser/racer' in concept.

When these over rigged cats are used on parts of the west coast they find conditions are much rougher. Then they get shown up as being more prone to trouble, including capsizing, than properly rigged cats.

Is this a general view?

Do you think he has a good point?

If so, it has relevance to people buying on the used boat market. If it was an east coast cat, be careful what you buy. Or something like that.

True/false

Mike
__________________
Wrong no man, write no woman.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 7th July 2010, 12:11 PM
Talbot's Avatar
Talbot Talbot is offline
Boat: Privilege 37
Knowledgable Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Stavanger, Norway
Posts: 2,802
Default Re: 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

The 10m Catalac was produced originally with an optional additional 3 ft on the mast for boats destined for more benign conditions.

British built cats (Catalacs and prouts in particular) were built with small sail plans so that they were safer in bad conditions. Tom Lack offered a substantial sum of money for the first person to be able to prove that they had flown a hull in a Catalac.

Of course the downside of this is that light winds meant turning on the engines.
__________________
"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and miss."
Robert A Heinlein
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 7th July 2010, 02:28 PM
henryv henryv is offline
Boat: PDQ32 & FP Orana
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 54
Default Re: 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

The early PDQ32 models were built with a 45 foot mast height. Later models were changed to 49 ft. mast to improve light air performance.
The boat is fairly light and will sail in the double digits when wind speeds get up over 15 knots. As with any smaller boat performance is affected more by sea / wave conditions.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 7th July 2010, 07:52 PM
jkd jkd is offline
Boat: holding
Brit Basher
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: S.E. Florida
Posts: 1,213
Default Re: 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmmbruce View Post
I have a question for our American members on the forum. This comes from comments by an American friend who sails monos, but knows a bit about cats.

His theory is that sailing conditions on the east side of USA are generally fairly benign. Seas of 4ft are considered quite large. So people want their 'cruising cats' powered up with larger rigs so as to enjoy the stability and the easy sailing. Hence the current trend for ever bigger rigs, and boats that are more 'cruiser/racer' in concept.


True/false

Mike
Could be some validity to this. There are certainly more places to duck into on the east coast to get out of the ocean if you need to and those brought up sailing the Chesapeake Bay are use to mostly shorter waves (but they tend to be steeper, which is probably worse for a cat to get sideways with). There are some pretty nasty places also (Cape Hatteras etc.), but with the right stick height it is easy to do the ICW and avoid most of these.
I think a large part of the issue is that a lot of people get a cat and expect to see double digit speeds all the time so they order the biggest sail plan available for a boat or start adding flat top mains and code zero's that the boat and/or rig was not designed for and end up pushing the boat closer to the edge than they realize.
Same old same old..... without the feedback from heeling over some don't adjust to the boat fast enough.

John
__________________
"The floggings will continue until morale improves"!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 7th July 2010, 11:38 PM
dmmbruce dmmbruce is online now
Boat: 26 ft Heavenly Twin - TWO MINDS
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Stratford upon Avon, boat Poole
Posts: 3,198
Default Re: 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

JKD that's interesting, - thank-you.

Might it have any relevance to the west coast capsize do you think?

Mike
__________________
Wrong no man, write no woman.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 7th July 2010, 11:50 PM
D&D's Avatar
D&D D&D is offline
Boat: SV CatNirvana, Lagoon 440, #406
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yamba, Australia base...now cruising
Posts: 292
Default Re: 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkd View Post
end up pushing the boat closer to the edge than they realize.
Same old same old..... without the feedback from heeling over some don't adjust to the boat fast enough.
Well (and succintly) put jkd!

dmmbruce...the above would pretty well cover most any wind-induced capsize...and wave-induced capsize would be a combination of the above and gaps in the skill set of the crew on board to respond appropriately to the conditions
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 8th July 2010, 01:45 AM
ka8uet ka8uet is offline
Boat: seeking cat to live aboard
First Lady of America
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bay View, Ohio
Posts: 549
Default Re: 32' Catamaran Capsize Off California

I'm not sure it was a capsize at all. The newspaper report which Zero to Cruising published on his blog mentioned that the winds were 45 knots. It's possible that the boat ended upside down because of pitchpoling, rather than capsize. Reporters don't know the difference, and often things happen so fast that sailors can't tell, either! There is no mention of the use of a drogue or any other drag device to slow the boat. They did mention trying to reduce sail.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Template-Modifications by TMS
copyright@PB Consulting 2008