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ForumAdmin
22nd September 2009, 03:59 PM
Calling
Gideon Goudsmit of Fastcat African Cat
Gideon Goudsmit of Fastcat African Cat
Gideon Goudsmit of Fastcat African Cat

I know you seem to think that you can get away with the selective customer support whereby you support the customer who does not tell it as it is and simply blank the customer who is honest and open.

This why I am sure you will be able to day that its the customer's fault - that door fell off not because of deplorable workmanship and design but because they abused it. They are unreasonable because they question you and so the latest on the Barnacle & Butterfly blog is that you do not respond to any emails even on things that have already been accepted by yourself as your liability!!!

You told me about producing many boats per year but Butterfly & Barnacle hull number 4 was ready almost a year late and how many more boats followed it? Answer: NONE.

For all the huff an puff so far your record boat sales in terms of quality, quantity and after sales support has been deplorable.

Anyone who even thinks about a Gideon Goudsmit Fastcat from African Cat
should read all the threads in this Fastcat Catamaran forum.

IMHO you bring shame to the reputation of boat builders and should be totally ashamed of yourself - however I am aware that you are not because you live in an unreal world of total make believe and leave a trail of victims scattered around you.

I intend to ensure that every potential customer know the truth about your record so that they can decide if they wish to hand over money to you.

This campaign has only just begun and it will not stop until you treat the owners of hull number 4 with some respect and fairness.

It will not go away - it will grow.
My aim is to achieve justice for Dick and Karen not to ruin you. In not providing that fairness and justice you may well ruin yourself .... its your call.

Nordic
22nd September 2009, 06:22 PM
Paul,

when you are in Capetown, please get in touch with SABBEX, the SA boat export council, and ask them if they think that Gideon Goudsmit of African Cats who builds Fastcats as a hobby, is still deemed to be a worthy member. His sad attempts at building boats have been disasters for the poor customers, all 3 of them at that.

This guy is as bad if not worse than the outfit that built Bumfuzzle. Maybe Gideon Goudsmit needs to look at what that blog did to that company.

What Gideon does not understand is that all the lies he has posted, and all the facts his unhappy customers have posted will be floating around on the internet forever. This will damage the resale value of the Fastcat catamarans for many years to come.

The damage he is doing to the more reputable catamaran builders in South Africa is irreparable. The arrogant Mr. Gideon Goudsmit claimed that he invited a number of SA builders over to his yard, so he could teach them how to build modern boats.

This from a guy with zero boatbuilding experience. Gideon maybe you should have stayed with selling cars instead of playing at building boats, and attempting to rewrite the laws of Physics.


When can Butterfly expect to have their warranty issues dealt with in an honourable manner by African Cats?


Alan

taifun
22nd September 2009, 06:54 PM
I don't think that Gideon Goudsmit of Fastcat African Cat is a member of SABBEX, as I can't find his company mentioned among the members on this (http://www.sabbex.co.za/membertype.php) page. Was he ever a member?

Thomas

taifun
22nd September 2009, 07:09 PM
The South African Boatbuilders Export Council (SABBEX) realised the importance of sound ethics and good business practices, and subsequently requested proposals for the development of an Industry Code of Conduct for the South African boatbuilding industry. The purpose of the Code of Conduct is to have an instrument to ensure that minimum standards within the industry are adhered to with respect to quality, warranties, business ethics, customer service, etc

I wonder why African cats and Gideon Goudsmit of Fastcat African Cat is not is not listed as a member in any form. Could it possibly have anything to do with SABBEX Code of Conduct ??
:confused::confused::D

Thomas

ColdFusion
22nd September 2009, 08:08 PM
Interesting...

I assume that fastcat435 on Cruiser Forums is the same Gideon you're talking about here?

I've been following a thread over there on electric propulsion. Gideon's contributions start to get interesting on page 11 where I began to realise some of the claims being made didn't seem to be backed up by credible test results - it's more like sales talk.

In another similar thread he made a statement, which I read at the time, that if the performance outcome of the hybrid electric drives (being?) fitted to four(?) customers boats wasn't satisfactory, he would repower their boats with diesel engines at his own expense. However, his post then disappeared, and someone picked up on it here (post #96 by Dedzaboy). Then read posts #106, #107 and #108 and form your own conclusions!

I would love to see a viable hybrid electric solution but so far I'm very sceptical of some of the sales talk I'm hearing, and from other bits I'm picking up on (like this thread) it seems that Fastcat customers aren't being treated too well if/when they complain. Not good is it!

ForumAdmin
22nd September 2009, 10:27 PM
It is not good at all.
On this very forum Gideon denied evet claiming he advertised the St Francis 48 as a Fastcat 48 - he had changed his web page BUT someone had kept a copy and proved he was not telling the truth but that changing of history and disappearing information has gone on since the beginning - he claimed a 10 knot average speed across the Atlantic but his own log showed just 6 or so knots so the log was removed from the site and he claims he does not know how!!!!

At every stage the information put out is just a fabrication without substance - if facts and history get in the way he changes them!!

All this pain caused to others and only 2.5 boats actually sold but more models appearing by the week ..... utter, utter rubbish.

He does have at least 2 customers waiting and I feel sorry for them.

therapy
23rd September 2009, 12:47 AM
here (post #96 by Dedzaboy). Then read posts #106, #107 and #108 and form your own conclusions!


!

Hehe.

And who is this SteveC guy.

He sounds like me when I first started seriously looking for a cat - When I had the money that is.

KGP
23rd September 2009, 04:20 AM
I don't think that Gideon Goudsmit of Fastcat African Cat is a member of SABBEX, as I can't find his company mentioned among the members on the CF page. Was he ever a member?


Hmmm, I know in the past he has touted that he was a member:
And the link that he provided in that CF thread still pulls up his information as though he is a member. But when you try to find the company using the directory he doesn't show up.:confused:

Read down a few posts to Nordic's reply in that CF thread. :)

therapy
23rd September 2009, 09:15 PM
Read down a few posts to Nordic's reply in that CF thread. :)

I went ahead and read the whole thing. :D

KGP
23rd September 2009, 09:37 PM
I went ahead and read the whole thing. :D
Yea, definitely worth reading it all. Some interesting quotes from Giddy in there. Oddly, in spite of the claim that "the next available slot will be ready in the middle of 2010" those Fastcat banners are still working hard on CF. I guess he's attracting hobby watchers, or perhaps he's booking for 2011+ slots now.
::)

IreAneY
23rd September 2009, 09:51 PM
It's a load of bullshit, he has not even launched hull #5, which he should have been launched about 8 months ago so how the hell is he going to launch hull #20 by the middle of 2010 that means he will have to build 15 boats in 10 months :rolleyes:

OR

do the dutch have a totally different numbering system to the rest of the world ie. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 20. ::)

KGP
23rd September 2009, 09:57 PM
So what is SABBEX anyway?

I guess if the words on their web mean anything, they should be looking over how the builders customers are treated...

Snippets from various pages:


Use its best endeavours to attain an in depth knowledge of its members, particularly with respect to their resources, facilities, and capabilities, to best be able to fulfil its objectives;

When purchasing a boat from a South African manufacturer we advise you to contact the SABBEX staff and ensure that you only deal with SABBEX members. We cannot vouch for companies who are not members.

The South African Boatbuilders Export Council (SABBEX) realised the importance of sound ethics and good business practices, and subsequently requested proposals for the development of an Industry Code of Conduct for the South African boatbuilding industry. The purpose of the Code of Conduct is to have an instrument to ensure that minimum standards within the industry are adhered to with respect to quality, warranties, business ethics, customer service, etc. The Code of Conduct, to be administered by the SABBEX, was written by Dr. Brian Gowans and funded by the Department of Trade and Industry.

Accreditation:
The status of Accreditation will be shown in South African Boat Building Council’s brochures and web-site, and can be used by the accredited companies in their sales literature.

The South African Boat Building Council is frequently approached for opinion of companies by purchasers. Ethically they cannot make any positive or adverse comment when they have no yardstick. This reflects badly on them, and hence the South African Industry, to such customers.

However in the event of a company being accredited, the South African Boat Building Council can respond that company “X” has been accredited by them and meets the national standards of their Code of Conduct, or is in process of attaining it. This will give credibility to that company and the Council.

An answer that the company is “not accredited” by the national Code of Conduct would clearly be seen as a neutral comment by any potential customer who would then make any decisions at their own risk.


Some companies will not think it necessary or worth it. They should however be aware that in an increasingly complex information age, purchasers look for such measurers of company stability, in addition to cost and quality, before they make investment decisions.

We know that he was once a member. That much is certain as the link (http://www.sabbex.co.za/memview.php?id=25&sid=2)he posted in the past still can be pulled up by clicking on it. He is also listed in their PDF document (available here (http://www.sabbex.co.za/pics/ctbi_directory_web_221008.pdf)) as a full member. But now, if you view their membership list online he is nowhere to be found. They dropped him? Web glitch? He didn't have the money to maintain membership? Wasn't worth it?

KGP
24th September 2009, 08:30 PM
Amazing how fast Google can rank a forums thread key words these days (SABBEX (http://www.sabbex.co.za/index.php)).

South African Boat Builders Export Council, aka SABBEX.
The tags seem to be working well too. Noticed that the SABBEX tag in this thread showed up very high (first on page two) as a search result of the term "SABBEX."

Probably interesting for consumers who might be considering buying, purchasing of having a boat (catamaran) built by a South African boat builder. I would think any buyer would call, write or consult with SABBEX to find out if a builder is still a member, might have lost their membership some way, or have had other types of problems with the yacht / catamaran marketplace.

Does anyone recall a thread on CF where the title was "Have African Cats lost their SABBEX accreditation"? The thread link showed up very high on a "SABBEX" search, but when clicking on the link I was returned a CF page that said "you do not have permission to access this page." Wonder what gives with that? The mods tossed it into the circular forum?

(http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f126/have-african-cats-lost-their-31120-new-post.html)

Trevor and Jo
24th September 2009, 08:39 PM
Ouch,

All this makes me, and doubtless others, very vary of any South African builders.

What a powerful tool this Forum is.

IreAneY
24th September 2009, 09:05 PM
Does anyone recall a thread on CF where the title was "Have African Cats lost their SABBEX accreditation"? The thread link showed up very high on a "SABBEX" search, but when clicking on the link I was returned a CF page that said "you do not have permission to access this page." Wonder what gives with that? The mods tossed it into the circular forum?

(http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f126/have-african-cats-lost-their-31120-new-post.html)

I found exactly the same, I did not have permission :(, also what still confuses me is that if you clicked on the link that Gidders gave his details came up as a member, but when you went directly into the SABBEX web site and looked at their members he is not listed :confused:, so how does that work what is the explanation,
The links I used were in post #8 of this thread posted by KGP.

imagine2frolic
24th September 2009, 09:09 PM
I can't find that thread now. hummmmmm I wonder where it went?::)......i2f

KGP
24th September 2009, 09:16 PM
...what still confuses me is that if you clicked on the link that Gidders gave his details came up as a member, but when you went directly into the SABBEX web site and looked at their members he is not listed :confused:, so how does that work what is the explanation...

Gidders was a member at one time, and thus they made a page for him. When he quit, was revoked, whatever, they simply removed the link to his page but did not remove the page entirely. Thus the link posted some time ago on CF still works. Quite simple to explain.

IreAneY
24th September 2009, 09:24 PM
Gidders was a member at one time, and thus they made a page for him. When he quit, was revoked, whatever, they simply removed the link to his page but did not remove the page entirely. Thus the link posted some time ago on CF still works. Quite simple to explain.

Gene
Thanks kindly for the explanation.:)

KGP
24th September 2009, 09:39 PM
Ouch,

All this makes me, and doubtless others, very vary of any South African builders.

What a powerful tool this Forum is.

Wary of any South African builders? Perhaps when some of those builders who are listed as SABBEX members start belching out unbelievable claims, false marketing, and where them not standing behind their few produced products become prevalent, then perhaps. But haven't seen that yet from Gunboat, Matrix, St. Francis, etc...

Yes, hope the forum is powerful enough to have righted what is wrong. Certainly don't want to cause it to steer away folks from all SABBEX member builders though.

Nordic
24th September 2009, 10:22 PM
The thread I started in the vendors forum on CF was deleted because as a non vendor, one is not allowed to start threads in the vendors forum. I was unaware of this rule, so I think it is of course OK to remove it.

I have asked that it be moved to the multihull section, as it is most relevant there.

That is why you can no longer find the thread on CF. Please do not turn this thread into a CF bashing thread, let's stick to the facts about African Fastcats no longer being an accredited member of SABBEX.

Either he hasn't paid his membership dues on time, or else Gideon Goudsmit of African Cats, has been kicked out for bringing SABBEX members and other boat builders in South Africa into the negative spotlight and disrepute.

I know that SABBEX has received several complaints about African Cats, as well as the behaviour of the owner Mr. Gideon Goudsmit. It has been well documented in the blogs of both Fastcats that have been sold as new, in fact the only 2 Fastcats that have been sold and delivered directly to their owners.

SABBEX know of these blogs, as there are several SABBEX members who follow them with dismay.

The fact that Gideon Goudsmit and his wife have attempted to shut up their critics, using the threat of suing their clients and critics, and other bullying techniques, has not improved their standing among other builders, who try and make an honest living, supplying good quality boats and services in South Africa.

The fact that African Cats, builders of the Fastcat 435 and the Fastcat 445, no longer are accredited members of SABBEX has implications far beyond what one might think. As in all these kind of organisations, once you are approved as a member, it takes massive complaints that need to be verified before you get expelled.

The enormous number of major quality issues and defects on both the Fastcats delivered to date, and the fact that African Cats does not seem to honour valid warranty issues that have been ongoing for not just weeks, but dragging into over a year, are becoming a major liability for the South African Boatbuilding industry.

This is an industry that has major focus from the government, as the industry employs and creates many skilled and semi skilled jobs, and is a major earner of foreign currency. SABBEX is sponsored by the government, so a foreign national endangering local jobs is not going to be popular.

Alan

jono
25th September 2009, 08:38 AM
I found exactly the same, I did not have permission :(, also what still confuses me is that if you clicked on the link that Gidders gave his details came up as a member, but when you went directly into the SABBEX web site and looked at their members he is not listed :confused:, so how does that work what is the explanation,
The links I used were in post #8 of this thread posted by KGP.

Ian I found the same result searching SABBEX web site so i emailed SABBEX info@sabbex.co.za and received this reply to my question....

Is Gideon Goudsmit of Fastcat African Cats a member of your organisation?

the reply:

Dear Jono,

Yes, he is. We are presently at the Cape Town Boat show but if you require more information, please let me know.


(i removed her name to protect the innocent :rolleyes:) Yet again Gideon Goudsmit of Fastcat African Cat no where to be see as listed member !!

Nordic
25th September 2009, 06:00 PM
You need to ask if he is an accredited member, and ask if there are any open or pending complaints waiting to be reviewed, as you have done some web searches ...etc.....

Alan

ForumAdmin
25th September 2009, 08:35 PM
I am logged in from Cape Town and was told today he was not a member!

I will report back on this issue soon.

jono
26th September 2009, 02:06 AM
I am logged in from Cape Town and was told today he was not a member!

I will report back on this issue soon.


Sent a further email as Nordic suggested, see what comes up...:confused:

jono
26th September 2009, 11:44 AM
Quote:Gideon Goudsmit of Fastcat African Cat on CF 'alternative propulsion thread' post: 113

Hallo Cold Fusion ....All outstanding warranty issues are being taken care of. That has always been the one and only solution :eek: They are by the way the only unhappy customers we have.
If you read the blogs of other customers you will see a complete different view on how we handle service.

Gideon

Yes who are the other happy customers?
Nieuwe pagina 1 (http://www.seawing.be/)and Sailing around the World. (http://www.fastcat.no/) (which we know doesn't own the boat)

therapy
27th September 2009, 04:27 PM
I noticed that in the October 2009 edition of cruising world under the article "Fall Boat-Show Preview" there is no Fastcat. I guess it lists only ones that have reserved a spot.

scotte
22nd November 2009, 05:33 AM
Looks like African Cats hull #6 will be named "Sea Minx". Anyone get the name for hull #5?

Since 2004 they have splashed 4 we know of...

Hmmm... the African Cat website claims they have built 33 power cats! http://www.africancats.com/site/content.php?page=newslib&id=17


The all new PowerCat 450 Sport has evolved from the successful PowerCat 420, of which 33 units have been delivered all over the world.

This PowerCat has been designed to accommodate both the leisure and sports fishing market. She will be even lighter than her predecessor PowerCat 420.

Some of the features are listed below:

Up front are two king size staterooms, each with its own head and shower. The same is available aft, unless you prefer a three cabin or owner’s version which boasts a full size walk in shower, with space for a washing machine and tumble drier.

The aft deck has ample space for the sports fishing enthusiast, with features such as fighting chair, live bait wells, tuna tubes to name but a few. Without these items, there is a vast expanse for relaxing in the sun.

A sweeping staircase leads up to the extra large fly bridge. Fitted with a fridge, ice maker and sink, it is the perfect place to watch the sunset and socialize whilst anchored in a scenic bay. With the helm situated to the aft of the fly bridge, docking is a breeze, and the visibility to the fishing deck below is ideal.

The new solid wing deck allows for easy all-round fishing, or simply lazing in the sun. The davit crane is perfectly situated for easy launching of a tender, and there is ample “out of the way” storage space available for water toys such as a jet ski.

Designed by naval architect Angelo Lavranos, this is the first PowerCat with a planing hull. The boat can be fitted with the new Volvo IPS 600, 800 and 900 series, or the all new Zeus drives, resulting in speeds in excess of 30 knots.

With all this space, luxury, stability and speed, one can truly say that this is “a cat above the rest”.
The first PowerCat 450 will be available by the end of 2009.

And then finally, a "fossil free" fastcat should be in the water by now, according to http://www.africancats.com/site/content.php?page=newslib&id=16


African Cats is happy to announce that the first virtually fossil free sailing catamaran with retractable propulsion/generation system will be launched by the middle of November in Durban South Africa.

This luxury comfortable performance cruising catamaran is a result of many developments of which the driving system Green Motion is the most important one.

The dual Green Motion set up consists of:
• Electric retractable outboard motogens* (2 x 9.6 KW)
• 1 x 144 to 24 volts 30 amps converter
• 10 amps shore charger 230 ac -144 dc
• LCD screen for amperage, volts, rpm and temperature
• 12 x 150 amp 12.8 volt AGM batteries (Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries optional).
• 40 litre dual coil 220 ac water heater
• Extra pre heat hot water heater
• Dual control head (Glendinning)
• Plug and play wiring
• Hydraulic actuators (2)
• Electric hydraulic oil pump
• Manual emergency oil pump
• Oil Filter
• LED indicators for up and down position
• Switches up and down
• 2 waterproof Contacts with switches and keys (2)
• Electric hydraulic steering valves
• 4 bladed high efficient propellers (2)
• Basalt Fibre wing strud’s (2)
• Hydraulic piping
• Shaft anodes

The resistance while sailing is lowered with the motogens* retracted. The actual sailing speed increases because no sail drives, propellers, props shafts or shaft supports are in the flow of the water and the result is a lower usage of the motogens* and reduction of energy used.

The motogens* are located closer to the centre of gravity making the yacht safer and more comfortable.

Folding or feathering props that are expensive and need maintenance are no longer needed because they are lifted from the water when not in use. No fouling of props and they are reachable in up position for cleaning.

We have installed an induction stove and an electric oven to make the yacht complete fossil fuel free.

For more information please contact us on info@africancats.com

Can't wait to see if that boat a> actually exists, b> ends up being delivered with a generator. Or two. ;)

Goodspeed
18th October 2011, 03:22 PM
Hello everyone,

I know this topic is already a couple years old but we have recently encountered some problems with Gideon Goudsmit. Is it possible to have contact with people who have witnessed or experienced problems with this dishonnest person and who could help us ? It has come so far that we have taken the matter to court.

Thank you all in advance,

Sophie

ForumAdmin
18th October 2011, 03:34 PM
There are members here who have had dealings with Gideon but keep in mind that there are very few boats ever sold and so just a handle of customers. Only karen & Dick of Butterfly have really spoken out and told the truth.

I would suggest that you explain what your problem is in outline or send me a private message if you prefer.

Have you purchased a Fastcat?

ForumAdmin
18th October 2011, 03:35 PM
Sophie
I would also point out that this forum was founded so that the ruth could be told about Gideon and Fastcats without censorship. There is a long history.

dmmbruce
18th October 2011, 04:48 PM
Hello Sophie. If you have already gone to court over things then obviously you can't say much. Paul at ForumAdmin is probably your best source of information here.

A PM to Karen might be a good idea.

Best wishes

Mike

ForumAdmin
18th October 2011, 11:29 PM
Yes there is another victim and yes not much can be stated in public at present. Its sad how Gideon just carries on.

Nordic
20th October 2011, 06:32 PM
What hindrance to publishing the facts as one sees them on a forum such as this would a pending court case be?

A slimy operator like Gideon will just use the "lull" to entice yet more buyers.

ForumAdmin
20th October 2011, 07:09 PM
The problem is that the Dutch judges have already frowned on issues being made public and hence it can damage the customers case to reveal too much on the internet. It is up to the customer what to reveal and they choose the extent of the revelation not us.

As it happens I am sure that in this case you can be of great help to them because nobody would be better a helping produce a catalogue of Gideon's tricks and that is what they need to present to court. You are also not too far away.

sigmasailor
21st October 2011, 07:15 PM
Hello everyone,

I know this topic is already a couple years old but we have recently encountered some problems with Gideon Goudsmit. Is it possible to have contact with people who have witnessed or experienced problems with this dishonnest person and who could help us ? It has come so far that we have taken the matter to court.

Thank you all in advance,

Sophie

Hi Sophie,
Are you referring to a case about a Fastcat 445 or a court case that was lost by the plaintiff a couple of months ago (ruling 3/8/2011) about a St. Francis 48?

Sigmasailor

ForumAdmin
22nd October 2011, 06:54 AM
That is correct Eric.

Karen
22nd October 2011, 09:16 AM
Or do you mean Gideon's Fastcat 48 ... some of you will remember this: (http://www.multihulls4us.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6981&postcount=10)


FastCat 48 Demonstrator ‘Out of Africa’

This gorgeous yacht is equipped with all possible options, including: hard-top bimini, in-boom-furling, water maker, double air-conditioning- double heating, solar panels, genset, schreecher, gennaker, etc. Besides being utterly complete this ship is perfectly finished, which you will immediately notice in the spacious saloon, galley, or one of the 4 double cabins en-suite. Every cabin has a private bathroom with shower and toilet. The master cabin also offers a desk and a small bathtub.

Perfectly suited for world cruising, while comfortably living and/or working on board!

On our way to several boat shows we have reached speeds of around and over 20 knots on several occasions and under power the two Yanmar 75 hp diesels will let you sail with over 9 knots.

It has been launched in 2003 and has only been used for boat shows and test sails.

Now for sale for a very interesting price.

‘Out of Africa’ is available for test sails in IJmuiden, Holland.

sigmasailor
22nd October 2011, 07:28 PM
That is correct Eric.


Paul,

Which of the two is correct? Fastcat 445 or SFM 48 ('Out of Africa')?
The latter sure looks like a nice boat; I guess it is very similar to you own boat.
I've seen it in the IJmuiden Marina, pity that such a beautiful catamaran is just waiting and not being sailed.

Eric

ForumAdmin
22nd October 2011, 08:03 PM
Out of Africa is an SFM 48 that has been neglected even down to needing two new sail drives.
We went on her in our trip to Holland and it was obvious she had just been left and neglected.
Gideo was as usual asking far too much for her and so it never sold but he has managed to retain a deposit from an aborted sale.
I would like to post health warning on this man;s forehead but at the end of the day his whole operation never really got off the ground which is a pity because the basic design is fine and once the issues a sorted its a well designed boat that sails well.

sigmasailor
22nd October 2011, 08:41 PM
OK, still don't know which case Sophie is on about.
Is it about a Fastcat or the SFM 48?

ForumAdmin
22nd October 2011, 11:06 PM
SFM 48

sigmasailor
22nd October 2011, 11:24 PM
SFM 48

Ah, so that is what this is about, I wouldn't know what there is to fuss about that. As far as I know The Dutch Judge agreed with Gideon (some time ago) on all important issues and ruled against the plaintiff. Paul, you have to help me there is that ('plaintiff') the correct English for the 'accuser' (in Dutch this the 'Eiser')?

ForumAdmin
22nd October 2011, 11:48 PM
Your english as always is fine.

I really cannot go into too much detail except to say that there is an appeal.

When you are dealing with Gideon it is not the boat that matters it is the difference between what he claims and the truth and that difference Eric is the very foundation of this forum:)

Goodspeed
24th October 2011, 08:02 AM
Hi

It's about the "Out of Africa", the St Francis 48.
Thanks for all your quick replies !

Karen
24th October 2011, 09:51 AM
Paul,

I've seen it in the IJmuiden Marina, pity that such a beautiful catamaran is just waiting and not being sailed. After over 5 years of NO SALE - surely the conclusion has to be that it's not that beautiful!

Eric

Gideon has been trying to flog this boat since at least 2006 - it was up for sale when we saw it in Ijmuiden Marina.



Ah, so that is what this is about, I wouldn't know what there is to fuss about that. As far as I know The Dutch Judge agreed with Gideon (some time ago) on all important issues and ruled against the plaintiff.

I don't think it takes too much imagination to know precisely what all the fuss is about! Au contraire - I think there are many folk who can imagine all too vividly the frustration and sense of injustice Sophie and her partner must be going through. Y

You have said many times, Eric, that you believe there are two sides to every story, yet you seem only to want to see the story as told by Gideon. Why is that?

Karen
24th October 2011, 12:39 PM
Paul,


I've seen it in the IJmuiden Marina, pity that such a beautiful catamaran is just waiting and not being sailed.

Eric

Just noticed - my response -

After over 5 years of NO SALE - surely the conclusion has to be that it's not that beautiful! ... has appeared in Eric's reply. (Take my advice:never type while simultaneously packing up an old life and trying to squeeze everything you need into Monarch airline's paltry baggage allowances ...) :(

sigmasailor
24th October 2011, 08:20 PM
Dear Karen;

I have gone to the trouble of obtaining and reading the (publicly available) verdict (all 15 pages of it); so at least I can say that I know, first hand, what I am talking about. I guess you have done the same Karen?

That way I avoid looking stupid by using one sided opinions and/or 'here say' as so often demonstrated on this forum. I can assure you the verdict contains both sides of the matter Karen.

I cannot remember choosing anyone's side on this matter; not on this website anyway. I don't need to choose sides; the ruling was extremely clear; in the case African Cats versus Colas the Judge concluded Colas lost on 11 counts. This is the fist one: 'wijst alle vorderingen van Colas c.s. af' (for those of you who do not understand Dutch: 'All claims Colas made are rejected'). The rest is mostly about money Colas owns African Cats and the court.

Eric

Karen
24th October 2011, 09:05 PM
Dear Karen;

I have gone to the trouble of obtaining and reading the (publicly available) verdict (all 15 pages of it); so at least I can say that I know, first hand, what I am talking about. I guess you have done the same Karen?

No I haven't. But if it is in the public domain, why not link to it and have done.

As for looking stupid - Why should that be a concern? Pride doesn't come into it - nor can one be anything other than one-sided when one speaks from personal experience. Speak the truth and stand by that. Let the world make of your truth what it will. The truth is I have a huge amount of sympathy for anyone entering or trying to break a business deal with Gideon Goudsmit. I would wager serious money, I am not alone.

But I'm intrigued ... why do you think so many folk here and on other forums have shown such animosity to Gideon?

(by the way, Eric - it's "hearsay" - not "here say" - which makes no sense, if you think about it. I know how you like to get these things right.)

Karen

sigmasailor
25th October 2011, 12:22 PM
Good Morning Karen,

The verdict is not online: as I understand it, a selection of verdicts are placed on line (www.rechtspraak.nl). I don't think it's up to me me to upload my copy; I respect other peoples privacy too much to do that. It's in Dutch (scanned as a picture) so will not be of much use to you anyway; the conclusion was very clear though. Being a Dutch native I had to look up some legal 'lingo' myself to try and understand it. I'm not legally trained and found some parts difficult to understand.

Thanks for your tip on hearsay; you're absolutely right, I do want to do that correct; thinking about it, it really was a stupid mistake I made (in line with the word itself):).

I don't think there are that many people who have met and dislike Gideon (there is you and Paul and....; I guess that's it). I hope you can live with the fact that I do not dislike him. I have never met you or Paul but do like our discussions about sailing in general and catamarans more specifically. I guess we all are allowed to have our own opinions; I do hope we can respect each other even when we do not share all of our opinions. I have no problem with that.

Eric

Karen
25th October 2011, 02:49 PM
I don't think there are that many people who have met and dislike Gideon (there is you and Paul and....; I guess that's it).


Ah Eric ... and I do think you really believe that. But you've given me the first belly laugh of the day, - so many thanks for that at least.


I hope you can live with the fact that I do not dislike him.

I certainly can. "There's nowt so funny as folk" ( old Yorkshire saying) - and much truth in that. Do not dislike all you like, sir.:)


I have never met you or Paul but do like our discussions about sailing in general and catamarans more specifically. I guess we all are allowed to have our own opinions;

Of course. And since every opinion is the result of a very individual set of experiences thanks to nature and nurture - how could it be any other way.


I do hope we can respect each other even when we do not share all of our opinions. I have no problem with that.

Nor me. And I am being sincere when I say that. However, not to split hairs, but respect, in my view, is not a given. It has to be earned. For instance, as you can gather, Gideon Goudsmit has not earned my respect. Quite the opposite. But tolerance of other folk's views - when those folk mean no harm - is another matter.

And that is why I wish you nothing but well, Eric.

Happy forum fulminations!

Karen

dmmbruce
25th October 2011, 03:27 PM
Karen that is unfair!

There isn't a word in Dutch for 'fulminations'. You are overtaxing SigmaSailor's admittedly excellent command of English! :D

Mike

sigmasailor
25th October 2011, 03:50 PM
Karen that is unfair!

There isn't a word in Dutch for 'fulminations'. You are overtaxing SigmaSailor's admittedly excellent command of English! :D

Mike

Mike,

How about 'fulmineren'; that is the Dutch verb resulting in 'fulminations' I guess. You are right about not having a Dutch equivalent as a noun. The message was cristal clear though.

I have to admit that I always thought fulminations is used to describe activities far worse that I judge my own scriblings to be.

Happy fulminating you all.

Eric

ForumAdmin
25th October 2011, 09:50 PM
eric
I think the sales of Fast cats as explained to me by Gideon of 20 a year have not happened and I really do think his reputation is such that he is struggling to sell any boats now. So in effect I hope you do agree that the market does not like him?:):):)

I am also somewhat surprised that you did not include Alan in the list of those who dislike Gideon and you may have hurt his feelings by leaving him out.:)

2hullsgood1hullbad
6th November 2011, 01:19 AM
...I don't think there are that many people who have met and dislike Gideon (there is you and Paul and....; I guess that's it)....

Just for the record, I've met him and dislike him intently!

Nordic
6th November 2011, 10:43 PM
I have been on his boat, but he was talking to someone else, I hung around for about 15 minutes after having had a look around the boat, and he was still talking to the same prospective customer.... so I have seen him in action and heard him but not actually shaken hands with him. I did speak with his lady assistant... this was at the La Rochelle show some years ago.

As with most successful con men, he sounded and acted charming... but the boat was very poorly put together.

I have a dislike of people who are dishonest, so in that context, I don't like Gideon. Mrs. G seems to be quite interesting and entertaining judging from some of her on line postings..... one didn't know if a call to the local asylum was in order, or just a laugh.

Alan

Karen
6th November 2011, 11:49 PM
I did speak with his lady assistant... this was at the La Rochelle show some years ago.

Well, according to the La Rochelle 2012 programme of exhibitors, seems Goudsmit will be once again trying his luck there. Can I suggest anyone visiting to see both boat and boatbuilder, pay special attention to all the facts and figures that are sure to be spouted. Then go home, do your research and try to verify them independently.


Mrs. G seems to be quite interesting and entertaining judging from some of her on line postings..... one didn't know if a call to the local asylum was in order, or just a laugh.

Yes - Elske Goudsmit's - ahem- "spirited" appearance on YBW billing herself as the "Quizmaster" was not exactly a resounding success. If I recall rightly, she was effectively boo'ed off. Not surprisingly.