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View Full Version : Agility for sale !!!Do not lose this opportunity



eiasu
1st May 2012, 10:06 PM
An almost new Atlantic 57 (http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?&units=Feet&id=2463447&lang=en&slim=broker&&hosturl=cwdesigns&&ywo=cwdesigns&) for sale!!!
Lotto I need you !!!
Hope to get this million and few coins to get this dream!!!

ForumAdmin
1st May 2012, 10:09 PM
Its claiming a 78 ft bridgedeck clearance - no slamming with that one but getting on and off may be tricky:):)

dmmbruce
1st May 2012, 10:43 PM
Its claiming a 78 ft bridgedeck clearance - no slamming with that one but getting on and off may be tricky:):)

You can let them off, it does say bridge clearance, not bridgedeck. Luckily!

However, the opening blurb says only ONE diesel. Down in the tech spec it does say two. Bit late by then.

Better proof reading might help.

I still don't like the lookof those boats. The forward cockpit - cold windy and wet. Plus the correspondingly reduced saloon size for a 57ft boat. Then it has to have galley down - just imagine trying to bring hot plates with food and gravy etc on them up those steps!

Mike

Karen
1st May 2012, 11:36 PM
I still don't like the lookof those boats. The forward cockpit - cold windy and wet. Plus the correspondingly reduced saloon size for a 57ft boat. Then it has to have galley down - just imagine trying to bring hot plates with food and gravy etc on them up those steps!

Mike

Have you been aboard an Atlantic 57 Mike?

We have, some pals of ours own one. The galley I'm really envious of - it's a very good design and layout, and the steps up are very easy to manage. I've changed my mind about the benefits of galley-ups on cats. Having the galley down gives the cook some peace and space when guests are on board, and there is a lot of storage area for pans and cookware, condiments etc - all nicely tucked out of sight of the saloon. The saloon is therefore more spacious with no galley taking up space.

But I agree, I don't really like the forward helm - though it does give absolutely fantastic view of everything ahead. However, in foul weather, the internal helm station gives a very good view to the outside world, too.

And although not quite 78ft (!ha, love it!) - the bridgedeck clearance is still to die for.

dmmbruce
1st May 2012, 11:41 PM
Karen,thanks for the info etc. No I have not even seen one, let alone stepped onto one! :) I live at a much lower level in the world of boats and cats. I just love looking at them and thinking,,,,,,,.

Cheers!

Mike

rallyman1122
13th May 2012, 08:49 AM
I win the lottery tonight, that boat is off the market tomorrow.:tic)

I like the forward helm. Great visibility from there.

The owner had an interesting blog that detailed the entire build and the decisions he made for outfitting. Cant find the link any more.

If I recall correctly, he chose to have no A/C or generator installed. I could be wrong.

Here is a link to the builder site. They have some good photos of this boat and owners comments.

http://www.alwoplast.cl/index.php

therapy
13th May 2012, 05:26 PM
1.5 million dollar boat and 5 pictures.

Ozmultis
13th May 2012, 10:48 PM
I count about 21?

Atlantic - agility (http://www.alwoplast.cl/interior.php?direccion=fondoA57.php)

OkinawaCat
28th May 2012, 12:03 AM
Ya I count 5 as well. Another broker hard at work ;)

eiasu
28th May 2012, 09:04 AM
Ya I count 5 as well. Another broker hard at work ;)
Naa:help

2hulls
28th May 2012, 01:33 PM
Wow, what a fabulous boat! Probably always goes too fast to fish...

Having a boat with helm positions frequently criticized (by those who have never tried them :D) I would defer judgement on the forward cockpit until after sailing such a design upwind in chop. (I'm still waiting on an invite from Sandy for a ride on his 42.) Off the wind - where most of us like to cruise - it's probably very nice and functional. Except for those times the boat is going slow enough to fish....

Wondering about a couple features: Domestic-type propane water heater. Hmmm - does this mean it has no engine heated water heaters? I can see the wisdom of having a propane heater, especially if you don't have to motor very often, but engine heaters are so simple and cheap and have "free" fuel, so why not have them in addition to the propane on such a well equipped boat?

AP steers by true wind. Hmmm - wonder if this is a typo? Seems most APs can steer by apparent wind angle. We use this feature on passages when we need to make distance upwind and don't want to hand steer continuously. But true wind angle? Maybe it doesn't make any difference.

2 Hulls Dave

doubledip
28th May 2012, 06:40 PM
AP steers by true wind. Hmmm - wonder if this is a typo? Seems most APs can steer by apparent wind angle. We use this feature on passages when we need to make distance upwind and don't want to hand steer continuously. But true wind angle? Maybe it doesn't make any difference.
2 Hulls Dave

The faster you go downwind, the more sense it makes - quote from the nke manual:

Why the true wind mode?
The true wind mode is more particularly effective before the wind with a strong swell: it is under
these sailing conditions that the Gyropilot nke demonstrates its capabilities. Before the wind
and in the swell, if you use the apparent wind mode, you will notice the following:
- When the boat goes down the wave, the apparent wind speed increases, the apparent wind
angle decreases and thus the wind hauls forward. Action of the pilot: it makes the boat fall
off.
- When the boat climbs the wave, the apparent wind speed decreases, the apparent wind
angle increases and thus the wind veers aft. Action of the pilot, it makes the boat luff.
You can now appreciate that the apparent wind mode in the swell does not allow to follow a
perfect heading and it is then necessary to switch to compass mode to go down the wave in a
straight line.
The true wind mode allows to go down the wave in a straight line and to maintain the optimum
angle of descent. The true wind angle does not change according to the speed of the boat. In
the single handed sailing, it is more effective to leave the helm with the pilot and to adjust the
sails, but be careful with the consumption.

2hulls
28th May 2012, 07:10 PM
doubledip - thanks for that. The logic makes sense. This is exactly why I don't use my AP in app wind mode off the wind and particularly surfing swells. Frankly, I don't see the advantage of using wind mode vs compass mode off the wind whether its true or app.

It seems that if the nke pilot is making adjustments on individual waves, it is set to a fast response mode - if it has such a setting - and is consuming a lot of power.

Upwind is a different story. No surfing, but the mast head is back and forth a lot, influencing both the app direction and speed. A true wind mode could maybe help here as well. I keep my AP on a slow response mode which tends to dampen out the mast head movement.

Thanks again - 2 Hulls Dave

agility
7th June 2012, 06:07 AM
Wow, what a fabulous boat! Probably always goes too fast to fish...
2 Hulls Dave

I can confirm that cruising too fast to fish is sometimes a problem.

agility
7th June 2012, 03:52 PM
It seems that if the nke pilot is making adjustments on individual waves, it is set to a fast response mode - if it has such a setting - and is consuming a lot of power.
Thanks again - 2 Hulls Dave

I've used this setting a few times. I can tell you that when you are really cooking downwind, perhaps with the spinnaker out, it's nice to have an accurate and fast response time from the AP. When you are going 15 - 20+ knots things happen quickly.

As for power consumption, never really been an issue for me. With the wind generator and the big solar panels the batteries are often fully charged without any of that nasty petrol.

Sandy Daugherty
25th June 2012, 04:12 PM
Overcoming my natural reticense, I must respond to those of you who have not had the pleasure of conning a big cat from a forward cockpit. Here are the facts:
1. It's fun. You feel the same wind on your face that the sails feel. You see ALL of the sails. You see the results of trim and heading changes as you make them. Under power you can place either bow within inches of where you want it because you can SEE them.
2. If it rains, you can go to the inside helm, take off your rain gear, sip a hot cup of tea, sit in an ergonomic chair and still see better than someone hiding behind a cabin roof. And that's with the wheel in your hand, not just the autopilot remote.
3. Sitting outside on a brisk day, you manamge to stick the otherwise very boyant bow into an especially bg wave, the spray misses you. I get a lot wetter hiking out on the rail of a big monohull. I'm not sure, but I think that is a result of the wide beam, bow design, light weight at the ends, fairy dust, or good design overall.
4. Looking at a design, and thinking about what other lookers have said is a good deal more misleading than actual experience. All you had to do was ask someone who has done it, and put a few miles under the keels in open ocean conditions.
5. This may sound like I'm bragging, but it was not a bragging situation for someone relatively new to the ocean (very) deep; The Caribbean 1500 of 2011. After wallowing around for five days under an Atlantic high that anticipated my every move to escape, we were presented with twenty five to thirty knots of wind on the port quarter, in long interval seas of 12 to 15 feet topped by wind-driven waves occasionally combining to 20 plus feet. With two reefs in the main and four wraps on the genoa we sailed, surfed, and occasionally went airborn for four consecutive 200 mile days. Siesta was enjoying the company of five senior citizen sailors (plus one thirty-something), loaded with food and luggage but running low on water and fuel. I got wet at the helm exactly once. Make that SOAKED at the helm exactly once. Make that DRENCHED but still only once. Two other watch standers shared my experience. That was in the harriest sailing conditions I'll every want to experience again.
6. And just for the record, Siesta did pound accasionally. All cats pound period. It just takes worse conditions to get there on the best cats.
7. why were we sailing so hard? Answer: The watermaker crapped out
on the second day. There was enough to keep everyone properly hydrated, but not bathed. We burned up 2/3s of our fuel trying to get away from that affectionate high, we were going to miss the RALLY party, and... it was FUN! Hairy, scarey, but ultimately fun becasue we all felt that Siesta was perfectly adequate for those conditions even if we weren't. Besides, when you're tired enough to fall asleep in one of those roller-coaster-ride front berths, you can ride through anything!
8. When am I going to be content to hide behind the salon roof, guessing where the bows are, straining to see part of the headsail? When someone lucky enough to afford her buys Siesta out from under me and throws me out of the cockpit. Then I'll go back to decorating my PDQ 36 with expensive electronic trinkets.

therapy
25th June 2012, 05:36 PM
Sandy,

Thanks for the hands-on view.

Do you need any sort of rain gear at up to 25 knots wind?

I got pretty wet at the helm of my Gem in 25 knots at 60 apparent. That was a sucky day.

Sandy Daugherty
28th June 2012, 04:17 PM
Rain gear?
why yes; It hangs on the back of the desk chair at the inside helm, to be donned when someone needs to squeegee the rain off the windows.

On a MORE SERIOUS NOTE, you must always prepare for the worst. Put a reef in before you go inside. Don't argue, just do it.

therapy
28th June 2012, 11:48 PM
Rain gear?
why yes; It hangs on the back of the desk chair at the inside helm, to be donned when someone needs to squeegee the rain off the windows.

On a MORE SERIOUS NOTE, you must always prepare for the worst. Put a reef in before you go inside. Don't argue, just do it.

Heh.

I meant if it was not raining. Just sailing.

agility
1st July 2012, 06:06 AM
Heh.

I meant if it was not raining. Just sailing.

I think that's what he meant.

You can actually tack in rough condition by doing an auto tack. When it's really nasty and we're sailing fast, I start the engine, head up, reef, set the sails and then go back in and enjoy the ride from inside and then auto tack going forward. When I lived on a 58' Tayana sloop I spent a lot of time at the helm and got drenched many times. It may be a little counter intuitive but we never got wet with the forward cockpit (because we stay inside when it's nasty) and we often got wet with the sloop cockpit (because that's where you had to be so see what's going on).

YMMV. I'm not saying you can't get wet, just that if you're careful, it doesn't have to happen.

dmmbruce
1st July 2012, 12:34 PM
I think that's what he meant.

You can actually tack in rough condition by doing an auto tack. When it's really nasty and we're sailing fast, I start the engine, head up, reef, set the sails and then go back in and enjoy the ride from inside and then auto tack going forward. When I lived on a 58' Tayana sloop I spent a lot of time at the helm and got drenched many times. It may be a little counter intuitive but we never got wet with the forward cockpit (because we stay inside when it's nasty) and we often got wet with the sloop cockpit (because that's where you had to be so see what's going on).

YMMV. I'm not saying you can't get wet, just that if you're careful, it doesn't have to happen.

I don't really see your point.

So you come in to keep out of the rain. Seems ok. You have to start the engine to reef and tack. Strange.

If you had an inside helm on your Tayana you could have steered in the dry too.

If you had a bimini or cockpit cover/doghouse of some kind on the Tayana you could have sailed and helmed dry if you wanted to be outside.

Similarly you could have a pod or cover over your Agility forward cockpit if you want to sail and helm in the dry and be on the outside.

I don't see that your comparisons are logical.

Mike

agility
2nd July 2012, 01:52 AM
I don't really see your point.

So you come in to keep out of the rain. Seems ok. You have to start the engine to reef and tack. Strange.

If you had an inside helm on your Tayana you could have steered in the dry too.

If you had a bimini or cockpit cover/doghouse of some kind on the Tayana you could have sailed and helmed dry if you wanted to be outside.

Similarly you could have a pod or cover over your Agility forward cockpit if you want to sail and helm in the dry and be on the outside.

I don't see that your comparisons are logical.

Mike

Maybe I can help you understand, I'll give it a shot. Frist of all, I'm talking about crossing oceans in large ocean seas. Coastal day sailing is a different matter.

1. Never said I start the engine to tack. I start it to reef. We do that because with a big rig it's nice to point directly into the wind so that the sail comes down cleanly within the lazy jacks. There are other ways to do that but I'm lazy. The other big benefit is that you can slow the boat down so it's not banging around. Remember, it's a Chris White design not just a typical charter style cat. With stiff winds you are sailing in the teens and the faster you go the more likely you are to get wet.

2. We didn't have a pilot house in our monohull but we did have a nav station. It's tough to steer when you can't see but more importantly, you can't see oncoming ships or get a good sense of what the sails are doing in the cabin of a monohull. That's why we spent time outside on the monohull on crossings regardless of the weather. When you can see everything from inside the salon we rarely go out except to changes sails. Of course when it's nice we're out whenever we want but frankly it's nice to minimize sun exposure so we tend to prefer to stay inside in the shade with the same great views and a breeze.

3. Bimini did't typically help keep us dry, they were more for shade. The dodger does help keep you dry but they spray typically comes in at a 45 degree angle so unless you have curtains you're going to get wet in big seas. Curtains don't make sense to me for an ocean crossing. I could tuck in next to the bulkhead on the downwind side behind the dodger and usually be OK but you still get spray and you have to get up to see on watch. When it got really nasty we've have to put in the companionway boards or risk dumping tons of water in cabin. Happend twice on the Tayana, luckily I didn't fry my computer. And yes, I got a wall of water tucked behind the dodger. I was a little worried that I could have been washed overboard.

If you are really interested in learning more about the differences, I'm happy to explain. I found a lot fo misinformation on the board and I'm just trying to help folks understand the differences.

Sandy Daugherty
3rd July 2012, 01:16 AM
Hi Mike. It sounds like you didn't believe me when I said I stayed dry in the forward cockpit unless it was raining. Have you made up your mind ahead of time?
Re: tacking and reefing. These are very big sails. The main weighs over 140 pounds. The genoa is huge too, and when it slats in the wind, it could kill someone with the clew shackle. The boat tacks quite nicely without having to do any more than on another large cat, and the dagger boards make it happen pretty quickly.
But as a matter of course, I roll up the genoa and fire up an engine or two when its time to reef the main. I'm not racing. And when you are 800 miles beyond the range of a rescue helicopter, its good to avoid drama and injury.
If I sailed with a half dozen 20-something deck apes, and there was finish line, I would reef the main as fast as as THEY could, you betcha.
But a cruiser, get this, might go five days on the same tack!

Back to staying dry. If you ever get a chance to sail one of these master-works, you will have to admit the arm-chair theorists got that part of the cockpit-forward scene wrong.

dmmbruce
3rd July 2012, 01:28 PM
Sorry, I have been busy and not replying much.

No, I wasn't challenging anything apart from the apparent logic of what you said.

No, I have never seen one of your boats, let alone gone on one, even less have I sailed on one and I have no reason to doubt what you said.

Yes I muddled tacking and reefing sorry, don't know why. (Age?)

My point only related to the fact that you can be dry on any boat if you wish, or wet on any boat if you wish. The make does not matter for this purpose.

Perhaps I should have shut up!

Cheers.

Mike

therapy
3rd July 2012, 10:19 PM
Hi Mike. It sounds like you didn't believe me when I said I stayed dry in the forward cockpit unless it was raining.
.

That is what I was asking.

Say, 25knots wind at 70 apparent.

I got wet in my Gem at the steering station. I know I would be wet (wetter) in any of the monohuls I have ever sailed.

agility
29th September 2012, 09:51 PM
Fwiw, Agility has been sold. We got a fair price and I'm supposed to be happy but I'm not there yet. :(

LoneStar
30th September 2012, 05:37 PM
Congrats!.......I guess? It must have been a tough decision to sell.

I'm bummed because I wanted to buy it :D I was very close, I only needed 5 more numbers on my lotto ticket last night.

I'm sure you learned a lot with the whole experience. If (and hopefully when) you get ready to get the next boat, would you go with the same? and what would you do differently? I have often debated with myself the pro's and con's of a cat that large.

And by the way, thanks for sharing. Best of luck in your endeavors.

agility
1st October 2012, 03:48 AM
I'd buy another Chris White in a second. After sailing one, nothing else seems even close. I guess I could consider getting a Gunboat or a custom Morrelli & Melvin design but I really don't think it would be a better boat for my purposes.

There are several small things we would do differently with some of the systems but I'm not sure they would be better. There are always tradeoffs.

Code Zero vs. Spinnaker? - I picked a Spinnaker but only used it a few times.

Maybe a different Dink.

Maybe composting toilets.


I do really like the idea of a Mastfoil....

wcm268
23rd January 2013, 02:46 PM
WhichCat-Multi here,

I sailed a 48' CW down from Portugal to the Canaries and was hitting 20 knots in a force 6 (28 to 30 knots wind) with the wind off the Starboard back quarter, helming from the Front helm position and went looking for the big wave and surfed down the face of it - NOT A DROP OF WATER CAME OVER THE BOW, LET ALONE ME GETTING WET.

All three on board had a go, two of which had never sailed that fast before, no water or spray into the Forward Helm position.

This is after all a Pilot House Cat and at night in the cold wet conditions you sit inside and enjoy a cup of Tea with your Wet weather gear hung up in the wet locker.

When you want to check something out up front, just open the door, see the Bows clearly, no visibility problems and you never left the cockpit under the Mast.

I rest my case, 20 knots, safe, great fun to sail and Tea for two in comfort.

All the Best

WhichCat-Multi.com

Steel Sails
23rd January 2013, 10:54 PM
As of last week Agility was still sitting in Shelter bay Panama doesn't look like she's moved for a while

agility
1st February 2013, 03:56 PM
As of last week Agility was still sitting in Shelter bay Panama doesn't look like she's moved for a while

She will soon be cruising around the world with new owner.

eiasu
1st February 2013, 04:39 PM
She will soon be cruising around the world with new owner.

Lucky him !!!! ;)

Steel Sails
1st February 2013, 04:42 PM
I will look out for the new owner/s , i will be in Shelter bay next month
Paul

eiasu
1st February 2013, 04:46 PM
I will look out for the new owner/s , i will be in Shelter bay next month
Paul
congratulations to them !!!:thumb:thumb:thumb:whistling:whistling:whistlin g

doubledip
9th January 2016, 04:30 PM
Agility has been back up for sale for a good year now, I heard.
Looks like the new owner did not keep her for very long.

rallyman1122
23rd January 2016, 06:44 PM
And asking the same prices as it was new, if I remember correctly. Now in Chile so has probably been back Alwoplast for a refit.

agility
5th February 2016, 12:40 PM
And asking the same prices as it was new, if I remember correctly. Now in Chile so has probably been back Alwoplast for a refit.

It's common for his boats to sell used for same or more than new.

rallyman1122
12th February 2016, 10:57 PM
It's a great boat. Maybe too much for my needs but I sure like Chris Whites designs. I think the mast foil 48 would be a great boat. A reasonable size, easy sail handling and well equipped to go pretty much anywhere.

agility
13th February 2016, 02:05 AM
It's a great boat. Maybe too much for my needs but I sure like Chris Whites designs. I think the mast foil 48 would be a great boat. A reasonable size, easy sail handling and well equipped to go pretty much anywhere.

me too.