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taifun
27th May 2009, 07:05 PM
A hint of true British sarcasm here (http://butterflyandbarnacle.wordpress.com/), in the latest installment of Butterfly's blog.


On a different note, we understand the launch of Green E-Motion, Gideon’s new electric hybrid catamaran has now been postponed again, until August 2009 this time. A year later than originally planned (ah, plus ça change!) But we sincerely wish him and those customers who have already signed up for this new and challenging concept, all the very best and hope the wait proves fully justified.

Nordic
27th May 2009, 09:47 PM
Just imagine!;) What a surprise? Hopefully it's not holding up the other 13 boats that he claims he will deliver this year.

Anyone willing to take a bet on when this boat will work properly?

Alan

ForumAdmin
28th May 2009, 07:47 AM
The fact is that to date there are only three Fastcats sold and delivered. I understand that none of the three owners seem to be in a happy place with the builder.

Having not managed to do a good job there the builder keeps announcing new models and new technology ..... maybe time would be better spent learning to build a boat properly.

Even the Fastcat tender has had problems as per the latest Butterfly & Barnacle blog.

I just feel sorry for those that have placed orders - although I do not know the truth as to what they may number. I find it difficult to accept that there are another 9 plus orders in place.

IreAneY
28th May 2009, 09:19 AM
I am sorry I think you are being a bit hard on Gideon regarding his order book and build time :rolleyes: the quote below is one he stated on CF, and if in 6 years he has built and sold 65 Fastcats ::) they surely by his reckoning of build times he should be able to knock out another 13 in about 15 months.

I trust that we are all agreed. :D:D:D

Hallo Ireaney
I think A forum is meant to give a opinion and that is all I did.
You are right we have only build and sold 65 FastCats over the last 6 years in sizes from 39 ft up to 52 ft. and I am sure more Fusion 40 s have been build and sold with their special way of building and construction. However the Fusion is a total different type of cat for a different public and in no way a treath to us , we are sold out until the end of 2011 and have stopped selling until we can up our production in our new factory.

Warm Greetings

Gideon Goudsmit

ForumAdmin
28th May 2009, 09:35 AM
:):):)
On my reckoning his imagination builds 15 FastCats for every one delivered but those 15 are, to be fair, perfect in every way!:)

Ozmultis
28th May 2009, 09:59 AM
My Seawind arrives in 10 days - 6 months or so after ordering - I will let you know if it meets the specs on the seawind thread, but I am sure it will, it has to sail 700 miles to get to me.

My boat may not be the best in the world, but it will be delivered on time to spec and on budget.

IreAneY
28th May 2009, 11:08 AM
My Seawind arrives in 10 days - 6 months or so after ordering - I will let you know if it meets the specs on the seawind thread, but I am sure it will, it has to sail 700 miles to get to me.

My boat may not be the best in the world, but it will be delivered on time to spec and on budget.

Looking forward to hearing the news and seeing some pics, lucky bastard. :mad:

wannab
29th May 2009, 12:32 AM
Ive been admonished in another post (talbot) for my lurking.:o

The best part of lurking is that I've caught this dream (virus?:D) from all of you and am inspired and educated. Thank you.

The second best is seeing many of you call out Fastcat. I'm sure you have helped many people with your efforts. I can't imagine spending the time and money, let alone the aggravation that Butterfly has had to endure. Now anyone ordering one of these cats has been forewarned.

Later I will post some ideas and endless questions. Right now out to sand the repairs on my Hobie. I need to get out and learn to sail!

kent

jono
30th May 2009, 08:38 AM
If anyone is interested, his is banging his drum today. :) jono

ForumAdmin
30th May 2009, 10:25 AM
He is handing out all this advice and performance specs on a boat that has not even been built!!

He told me that he was not taking part in public forums anymore and hence wanted to resign the forum but here he is again operating in an environment where he is safe from being exposed so that many more can be misled ...... I find it all totally amazing and can only thank the gods that this free speech multihull forum is now successfully up and running so that there is an environment for the truth to be told on any subject.

IreAneY
30th May 2009, 10:55 AM
Mind you as Gideon has sold so many cats :D (my #7 of this thread) it appears that he still has some for sale, let me explain.

Today I received my hard copy of 'Multihulls World' mag and in the classifieds - page 84 - he is selling his 2005 Fastcat 305VK which is a Rayvin 30, his Fastcat St.Francis 48 (not a Fastcat) and his own Fastcat 435 - not sure which number hull but I suspect hull no.1 which he is supposedly to have sold to some Norwegian guy who sailed it the the Caribbean and is now in charter. :confused:

So apart from B&B, how many Fastcats has he actually sold, I think 1;)

What does everybody else think??

ForumAdmin
30th May 2009, 12:50 PM
He has one for Sale in Holland - its been there a long time.
Then he has two sold of which B&B is one - the other has just crossed from Madera to the Caribbean.
Then he has the one sort of sold to the chap who has it now on charter. I now think the chap does own this boat but I cannot help feeling he has somehow been stitched up.

That is it - the 4 Fastcats that have ever been launched. All other Fastcats are not Fastcats but rather other makes of boat inncluding a St Francis which he chooses to call a 'Fastcat'

I know he has sold more boats, not yet delivered - I just feel sorry for the owners and what they may experience.

jono
30th May 2009, 02:27 PM
Paul and Ian, is it 'African Seawing' that crossed from Madeira to the Caribbean and possibly number 2?
Ian what are the prices the Cats going for, you think it's a fire sale.:eek:

Link to: You can now charter a Fastcat!
http://www.fastcat.no/video.php



Favorite videos. (http://www.fastcat.no/video.php)

FastCat 435 is the fastest catamaran in Norway. She shows that it's possible to sail fast in total comfort.
www.fastcat (http://www.%3Cb%3Efastcat%3C/b%3E).no/video.php - 5k - Cached (http://74.125.153.132/search?q=cache:btehNx9gNGgJ:www.fastcat.no/video.php+http://www.fastcat.no/video.php&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au) - Similar pages (http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=related:www.fastcat.no/video.php)
The wonderful boat. (http://www.fastcat.no/boat.php)

Our FastCat 435 is the fastest catamaran in the Caribbean. We're currently circumnavigating, but will be chartering in the Caribbean for a couple of years.
www.fastcat (http://www.%3Cb%3Efastcat%3C/b%3E).no/boat.php - 5k - Cached (http://74.125.153.132/search?q=cache:xCq7eHie39MJ:www.fastcat.no/boat.php+http://www.fastcat.no/video.php&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au) - Similar pages (http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=related:www.fastcat.no/boat.php)
More results from www.fastcat.no » (http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=http://www.fastcat.no/video.php+site:www.fastcat.no+)


news flash! hot off the press: "I hear a email to Outemer was recieved about a video, don't know who leaked," cripes sure can get wet here.... jono

IreAneY
30th May 2009, 09:06 PM
Paul and Ian, is it 'African Seawing' that crossed from Madeira to the Caribbean and possibly number 2?
Ian what are the prices the Cats going for, you think it's a fire sale.:eek:

jono

Hi Jono

Prices as requested:

305 (Rayvin 30) Launched 2005 - 159,000 Euros Plus VAT
Fastcat 435 Launched 2006 - 475,000 Euros plus VAT
Fastcat 48 (St.Francis) Launched 2003 - 475,000 Euros Plus VAT

All very, very expensive, I think. :eek:

jono
31st May 2009, 03:28 AM
::)HOLLY COWS BATMAN!

Fastcat 435 Launched 2006 - 475,000 Euros plus VAT
Fastcat 48 (St.Francis) Launched 2003 - 475,000 Euros Plus VAT

That's 475,00 Euro = 672.315 US Dollars, Plus VAT! but seriously a new Fastcat 435 is only 700,000 Euro plus VAT. :p jono

jono
31st May 2009, 09:06 AM
From CF:

All very innovative stuff Gideon, when I read your post, it sounds as though you actually have a boat working with these systems.

As far as I know, this is not the case, the boat isn't even launched yet and is a year delayed already.

So how much actual experience do you have with the Green Motion system? First you were proclaiming all the good things about the Valence batteries, now it's Mastervolt. In another post you admit to not using the Valence batteries???

Please be a bit clearer on what are plans/ideas and what in actual fact is a working and proven system, otherwise I for one get a bit confused.

Alan




Great post by Nordic on CF, Alan you stopped Gideon's flow!, he was punching relpies out against every post even if not asked of him. As you say, no such boat exists....;)

wannab
31st May 2009, 06:03 PM
See what I mean. really great stuff. Nordic well played. Then, Steve C does the math. 20 hours a day to get to 3000 hours.
::)

Hallo Steve the 3000 hours of testing have been done in our salt water basin over the last 18 months and are finished the same with the 1500 cycles this was also done in the basin. we have got to make the system perfect since lives could depend on it.
The first boat ( monohull ) with the system installed was launched in January and is tried and tested on a almost daily basis. this boat is used for sail training so she is in and out of the harbor

greetings
gideonYou guys have forced this guy to closer to the truth, but not actually to what is real. Now the first boat is a mono, not the E-motion, Steve C calls out the 3000 hours in 5 months. almost daily basis? Does he own this test boat? I would love to see that boat. Sail training and testing? Sail training or electrical training, system training. I tell you what I put a car battery and electric trolling motor on my Hobie and call in B-attery S-ailing. A lot like e-motion.

thanks

IreAneY
31st May 2009, 06:28 PM
Forget all this Green E-Motion, I have just finished designed my own Motion system and it works, his system although as I see it not tried and tested is old hat.:p

My system is called the REALALE System, if you imbibe loads of this the Motions you get are certainly not green but are very powerful, I just need to work out how to harness the forces exerted and store them in a condensed chamber to release them through a small turbine and you will have all the energy you need.:)

This will reduce the human carbon footprint tremendously.;)

By the way I do NOT have a carbon footprint, I drive everywhere.:D

jono
1st June 2009, 02:53 AM
Gee, I thought Gideon had a Green Motion Multi-hull number 5 in the water as early as October 2007 as stated below:

Our electric version weights 240 kilo less than the diesel powered version and the weight is in better locations closer to the centre of gravity making it a more comfortable and safer and a very silent boat.

on the hull number 5 the propulsion and many hull thru and outlets are taken out of the water besides the lower weight that now is close to 5000 kilo empty.

:)...jono

Tulliana
1st June 2009, 06:35 PM
I hope I can clarify a few points: -
Hull #1 African Innovation. Currently in the Caribbean for charter?
Hull #2 African Love. I think still in Amsterdam but not sure?
Hull #3 African Seawing. Owned by Frank & Martha. Currently in Las Palmas GC. Moored beside me when I was there, really nice people. Due to go back to Madeira shortly before doing the Rally Du Soleil later this year. http://seawing.be/
Hull #4 Butterfly. You all know about.

jono
2nd June 2009, 02:54 PM
Quote: What do you call those boats fast½cats, or ½fastcats?

O Boy O Boy.....jono

pier
2nd June 2009, 05:36 PM
Hallo,
I'm the "italian guy" that you forgot the name:).
I write this just to make no more confusion.
Andy (Tulliana/Adaero) was very specific up to Fastcat N° 4.
5 Fastcat 445 are sold and under costruction right now in Durban Yard.
Hull N° 5 is Green Motion and the owner is Gideon, this will be the first electric retractable Fastcat ( not really the first electric Fastcat since Hull N°3 is also electric but inboard).
Hull N° 6-7 will also be electric retractable.
Hull N° 8 (my boat) will be a 40 hp diesel version.
Hull N° 9, I guess also electric since I believe the yard is now offering only the electric version.
As far as I know N° 5 is scheduled for an August launch.
Up to now my boat is progressing at a steady pace and is scheduled for delivery Nov. 2009.
Hope this will help to understand what is goin' on down at the yard (for who is interested in).
I'll be glad to answer to any further question.
Pier

ForumAdmin
2nd June 2009, 06:49 PM
Hi Pier
I do not understand.
Hull number 5 is delayed a year and due to splash in August 2009 and your hull number 8 due to splash in November 2009 so hulls number 6 and 7 will be launched between August 2009 and November 2009 correct?

In effect a boat a month from August onwards?

Nordic
2nd June 2009, 11:51 PM
Hi Pier,

good to see you back here.

I just checked out the pictures on African Seawing, and as you say, it has diesel electric drives.

Interestingly, she was launched in late 2006.

Butterfly in early 2008.

No. 5 is due in August this year.

So on average it's been a boat every 16 months.

Going from that to one a month is going to be interesting to follow.

I hope you have a good surveyor, and that your initial payment is minimal so you have some leverage if they have not improved the quality of workmanship as documented on hulls 3 and 4.

Gideon only builds boats as a hobby, he doesn't need the money as he says, so economical leverage might not be any good, but if the initial payment is small enough, maybe you can afford to walk away from the boat if it to the usual standards.

I hope you will put up a blog so we can follow the progress when the time comes.

I sincerely wish you the best, and hope that you are spared the grief suffered by all the Fastcat owners to date.

Alan

44C
3rd June 2009, 03:03 AM
Is it just me, or does "Green Motion" sound like someone's been eating too much spinach?

jono
3rd June 2009, 07:23 AM
Pier, best of Australian luck to you mate. The sooner your Cat is in the water the better :)...

pier
3rd June 2009, 04:51 PM
Hi Paul,
my boat is scheduled for nov. 2009 with a 3 months window.
I do not know either what is the program about hull 6-7.
In my opinion is possible that launches will not be in the N° order but this is not my business.

Hi Alan and Jono,
thanks for your wishes.
It will be a busy year for the yard, that is for sure.
I have to say that building processes have improved a lot in the new yard.
I wish I could be in Durban for the building but this is not possible.
I'm following through the pictures from the yard and from my surveyor.
Thanks for your advices about payment but, of course, I already have a contract and installments are following building stages.
Engines were installed last week and up to now everything was smooth as silk.
Yes, I'll have a blog and as soon as I build it I will let this very good forum know about.
Pier

LoneStar
3rd June 2009, 07:13 PM
Hello Pier,

I would really like to see the pictures that you have been sent. If you could post them here i would really appreciate it. The construction photos are my favorite.

there really is so little info and pics available for the FastCat.

Thanks Pier.

Steve C

Talbot
4th June 2009, 02:02 PM
Pier,

A lot of people will be very eagerly watching your progress towards completion, and weight! I hope the boat achieves your dreams. If I had been in your position, I would also have made the same engine choice! I believe people have made the present Electric systems far too complex. Nevertheless, the future is undoubtedly some form of electric power. The motors are not the problem, it is the creation of electric power that IMHO needs further development.

Nordic
4th June 2009, 05:50 PM
there really is so little info and pics available for the FastCat.

Steve C

Hi Lonestar,

there are many pictures available here:http://www.seawing.be/





here is a sampling:

Picture from inside of the helm station:

Note the cable connection system used on the right hand side. You are not even allowed to use these in a house these days. How long will it last in a corrosive environment?

Note also the oil container, very smartly mounted to give easy refilling:D

Picture showing the stern gland and prop shaft:

Note the electrical connection plugs on the unit on the lower left corner, how much of a leaking gland will it take to short it out?

The last one also shows a lack of professional workmanship, even though this is during the commissioning.


My conclusion is that this guy doesn't know or doesn't care, both attitudes can cost future owners alot of grief.

It's probably a good idea to demand wiring as per some good standard like AYBC.

Alan

LoneStar
4th June 2009, 11:25 PM
Thanks Alan,

The wiring does not look up to standard. I would definitely want to pay close attention to that. I hope Pier has a good surveyor, better to have it done right before he takes ownership. I hope he is able to avoid all the problems others have experienced.

With the massive amount of experience that Gideon has under his belt with the new Green Motion System, and the 65 cats that have been built to date you would think we could get more information on them :confused: :D :eek:

I would also be really interested in what the surveyor has to say.

Steve C.

jono
5th June 2009, 02:32 PM
By the way how is your Bi rig coming along or still a dream ship?

Gideon can be so cutting and insensitive sometimes towards the general public on CF...:)

Nordic
5th June 2009, 11:23 PM
I have answered that question several times, so won't bother again.

The guy is so thick skinned it's incredible! Outright lies without any show of remorse.

I feel sorry for anyone doing business with him, all customers (with a boat) to date are not happy, as can be seen from the blogs. And the blogs don't even tell all.

Quality issues and ignorance about boat building basics seem to be standard issue.

Current owners have to balance between worrying about a future resale value and actually exposing the full truth.

Anyone considering a Fastcat would be wise to speak to the 3 present owners out there.


Alan

ForumAdmin
5th June 2009, 11:47 PM
I am so pleased that we avoided the Gideon influence when we flew over to Amsterdam.

Being told that the owner of hull 1 was there by luck and how he loved his boat only to find that he had never sailed her.

Being told that the wind was too much because the wind vane on the pole at the beach was horizontal only to walk down and discover the vane made of metal and was always horizontal.

Being told that we could have his hull - hull 13 to be delivered in 2010 but right up to hull 18) ot a number like that) was sold - it was that successful.

Being told he called the St Francis 48 a Fastcat because he had basically designed it - on that basis if course I have desighned my new boat - not bad for a beginner:)

Not managing to tack with over 25 knots of wind.

Nothing added up and all we saw was a terribly finished boat that Gideon seemed to accept as great.

We frankly ran away as fast as we could.

There are no happy customers and a feel a great deal for all three of them.

I hope that they can get their boat finished off, forget about the problems and then sail happily into the sunset - they all deserve it.

jono
6th June 2009, 06:44 AM
Narcissistic? :cool:, (I'm been nice here). Most people are aware if they have overstepped the line and respond accordantly, most people see the value of fitting in with societies accepted values. But there are people who just don't get it.

'warm greetings', (i mean what with this line at the end of Gideons posts, it's all ass about. jono...:rolleyes:

wannab
6th June 2009, 03:37 PM
Pier,

If you don't mind, I'm interested in the selection process in finding a design and builder.

What other cats did you look at in your process? Did you visit their yards? Own other boats? See completed models? Sail them?

Was your experience with Fastcat different then ForumAdmin experience? How does it compare? Does Fastcat have a great, innovative, fast cat and a bad personality? Do we have him all wrong?

I sincerely hope this purchase works well for you. I think that many of the gentlemen and ladies on this board have experience to help if your experience turns into "Butterfly" There is a definite benefit to you to keep in contact with them on the development and construction of your boat.

Of course I'd appreciate the chance to learn from your experiences, preconstruction, during construction, and after delivery.

thanks

kent

jono
20th June 2009, 12:26 PM
Gee it's real quiet in here, place starting to collect dust...just not the same anymore.:o

2hullsgood1hullbad
21st July 2009, 12:23 PM
I was in a chandlers the other day, browsing through a book called "Catamaran Communique" by a bloke called Charles E. Kanter, when what should I find but a section on electric drives and African Cats. So intrigued was I, I contacted the writer with the following:

I was browsing through your book Catamaran Communique the other day and was amused to see that you had written a piece about African Cats electric drives, where you state that they have something like 12 units in the water, and you were generally complimentary about their system. I believe the publishing date of your book was 2007.

I am writing because I'm interested to learn where you got this information from? As far as I am aware African cats have produced no electrically driven boats in any shape or form, and certainly not back in 2007. It may interest you to see what African Cats (Fastcat435) and others have to say if you follow the link below to the Cruiser's Forum. African Cats join the discussion towards the end, where this link will take you, and if you go forward through the pages from there you can follow the dicussion.




I received a reply within a day or two:

I got that ionformation from Giden, same as the press release you have on that Cruiser's Forum Website. I have not heard from him since and have no way of verifying any of that information.

So I replied with:

Thanks for your reply. I thought as much, that you had reprinted the contents of a press release from someone who has been shown to be less than truthful with regard to his achievements and sales.

I can appreciate your enthusiasm about these "new" technologies but am a little concerned that you have published a book that contains unverified information that is presented as fact, at least in this instance?


I haven't yet had a reply this time. Ignoring the fact that people are "writing " books out there by merely re-wording press releases, it's apparent that African Cats are not restricting their waffle to online forums but are somewhat more widespread. Perhaps we should start a competition to see who can find other published nonsense from the man, along the lines of "where's Wally"? :D:D:D

jkd
21st July 2009, 02:25 PM
That's a bit of a bummer, Mr. Kanter has a fairly good reputation and is often refered to as a source for multihull expertise.:(
I am shocked he does not carry out due diligence for his books.:eek:
I think I have one of his books at home, perhaps I should send it to him and ask for a refund as his credibility is now somewhat lacking.:rolleyes:

John

IreAneY
21st July 2009, 04:02 PM
I have one of his books as well, do you think he will also refund the cost of postage from the UK to the States. :D
Seriously though, that is not very good of him and his credibility would suffer if many other people knew about this.


That's a bit of a bummer, Mr. Kanter has a fairly good reputation and is often refered to as a source for multihull expertise.:(
I am shocked he does not carry out due diligence for his books.:eek:
I think I have one of his books at home, perhaps I should send it to him and ask for a refund as his credibility is now somewhat lacking.:rolleyes:

John

2hullsgood1hullbad
21st July 2009, 06:33 PM
Perhaps we should start a competition to see who can find other published nonsense from the man, along the lines of "where's Wally"? :D:D:D

Just to clarify, I was talking about African Cats esteemed owner here rather than Mr Kanter. Mind you, I nipped back for another look at the book just now and noticed that the section I mention is prefaced "after some in depth research...". Mmmmm.

2hullsgood1hullbad
23rd July 2009, 07:46 PM
Just to finish the tale, here's the relevant part of the reply from Mr Kanter and mine to him:

I do not think I published it any differently than anyone else would under
the circumstances. I never made any claims of actually seeing or testing or
sailing these vessels, I simply reported what information I had and thought
useful at the time.

Actually, Gideon was in Holland all that period and I have not heard a word
about him since.

To which I replied:

I think I broadly agree with your emailed comments ref electric propulsion etc, although I remain puzzled why you essentially printed the contents of a press release and presented it as factual - perhaps you could have prefaced that section by saying "African Cats claim..." rather than stating that you had carried out "in-depth research"? The impression given is that you had researched this system thoroughly when you plainly haven't. As it turns out, in this case the information that you published was wrong in many regards, to the benefit of the people that supplied the information - but potentially to the detriment of people that may have taken what you said as fact.


I guess people will form their own opinions...

Talbot
8th September 2009, 11:23 AM
Giddings is adjusting the laws of physics again

jono
10th September 2009, 05:09 PM
Planet Gideon is now Houdini?, or the Joker? maybe...

Quote: Dedzaboy (hope you don't mind Dedzboy) on the 'not nice forum'
"Apologies for going slightly off topic here, but after my post #81 on this thread the other day, Fastcat435 made a post where he said that if the electric drive system did not work out as planned, it had been previously agreed with his customers that he would retro-fit conventional diesel engines in place of the electric systems, at Fastcat's expense. To which I replied on post #83, "I wish them luck".
Fastcat's post however has now disappeared completely:cool:, making my reply #83 look slightly redundant! So where did Fastcat435's post go?"

Quote: Dedzaboy...still trying to get a reply
"I'm still puzzled by the post that disappeared as discussed in my post #96 above - can someone please confirm whether it was removed by Fastcat435 (is it possible for a "poster" to do this?) or by a moderator for some reason? Thanks."

The Joker's at it again :eek:...jono

2hullsgood1hullbad
10th September 2009, 10:12 PM
Well that seems like a bold statement from Gideon - I wonder how many of his customers knew they were "pilot customers" for this electric system? My guess would be ...none. I also wonder how it's possible that it would ever be agreed that the system didn't work as planned? Plenty of scope for argument there I'm sure.

Does anyone out there really believe that in the event that it could be agreed that the system didn't work as planned, that African Cats would bear the cost of hauling the three or four(?) boats that are currently being fitted with the system, removing the electric system in it's entirety, remaking the engine room areas to accept saildrives and engines, supplying and fitting same, plus propellers and fuel systems etc etc etc...not a chance. At all.

We can only hope that those "pilot customers" got something very firm and clear in writing before entering into this experiment. Yeah, right.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

KGP
11th September 2009, 12:45 AM
Dedzaboy via [/i]jono;12519]
Fastcat's post however has now disappeared completely:cool:, making my reply #83 look slightly redundant! So where did Fastcat435's post go?"

Quote: Dedzaboy...still trying to get a reply
"I'm still puzzled by the post that disappeared as discussed in my post #96 above - can someone please confirm whether it was removed by Fastcat435 (is it possible for a "poster" to do this?) or by a moderator for some reason?

I'd have to think that Greetings thought better of that post in public, now knowing how much his own words can come back at him, and removed it himself. Or perhaps an interested party - lawyer, employee, etc., made the suggestion.

I think that one can remove a post via the edit function, but only for a certain amount of time. As flawed as the CF rules and enforcement are, I just can't see them doing it for him if it were to have elapsed the time span where he can remove it himself.

He should thank us all. He's learning. Or at least someone is. Too bad that there is a record in the database of what he deleted. And there's always the good possibility that someone has captured a screen-shot of that post!
::)
And while nobody has answered Dezaboy's question on that CF thread, my familiarity with vBulliten is that anyone with the proper moderation privileges (that David M most likely has) can plainly see/view that deleted post when he views the thread. Chances of him answering? :rolleyes: Is it not protectionism to not simply say that "Fastcat435 deleted the post"?

KGP
14th September 2009, 01:04 AM
And while nobody has answered Dezaboy's question on that CF thread, my familiarity with vBulliten is that anyone with the proper moderation privileges (that David M most likely has) can plainly see/view that deleted post when he views the thread. Chances of him answering? :rolleyes: Is it not protectionism to not simply say that "Fastcat435 deleted the post"?

I was wrong - about someone answering! :)