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Thread: Simply Amazing Customer Support

  1. #1
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    Default Simply Amazing Customer Support

    With the only known sale of the Fastcat Rib to the owners of Butterfly & Barnacle, their latest blog entry now shows that they have found the rib so bad as to be unusable and have purchased a more normal rib that appears to be lighter!!

    By the way, the final straw with the TO was the frustration caused by its inability to maintain direction with only one person aboard. Coming into dock took several attempts if the wind blew. You can’t use speed to maintain direction as you come in, and the nose just shoots off in the gusts. Cruising makes you terribly dependent on your tender – without it you’re pretty much stuffed; you certainly don’t need to play silly buggers every time you want to dock. Nor, while I’m in full gripe mode, do you want the name of your main boat plastered large on the damn thing. Might as well tell everyone you’re away, please feel free to help yourself. That said, couldn’t resist naming the new one – albeit rather more discreetly. And once we have a rib cover, even that will be under wraps.
    and

    We have, of course, now a problem. What to do with The Tippy One. Advertising it for sale on the local Cruisers Net radio station, was not encouraging. Only one response: “Hi Butterfly, is that the tender we’ve seen you using here in Prickly Bay?” Yes, we dutifully replied. The one with bright yellow stripes and Butterfly plastered down the side (not our idea, by the way.) ” Ah… [pause] … I think I’ll pass in that case.” And who can blame him. We’re seriously considering donating it to a local charity to do with as they will. Getting shot of the old Tohatsu outboard won’t be a problem, thankfully.


    They seems to be nearer to solving the 2 mile VHF range:-
    and silver linings. Or to put it another way: when is the wrong co-ax and crazy wiring a blessing in disguise? Answer, when those two faults reveal another flaw that otherwise would have remained hidden. Which is a long-winded way of saying the marine electrician who came out to quote for replacing the coaxial cable (he’s considerably more compact than Dick), found water where it shouldn’t be – in the co-ax sheathing itself. So completing a hat trick of AfricanCats’ installation blunders as far as the VHF/AIS are concerned. No bloody wonder these didn’t work as they should – but a huge bloody wonder they worked at all! (Of course, if we’d only spent more time to – and I quote Gideon here again: “… make themselve (sic) familiar to get optimal use this equipment …” we’d have been … er, not one jot better off at all! These faults have nothing to do with not being familiar with our equipment. Through necessity, we have become all too familiar with our equipment – and AfricanCats’ frequently bodged installation thereof!
    Its all in their latest blog here
    http://butterflyandbarnacle.wordpress.com/2009/07/

    Yet Gideon, the man who told us it was too windy to sail because the wind sock was horizontal when in actual fact it was a metal wind sock that was always horizontal, continues to fool some people some of the time.

    He left this forum because he claimed that he could not defend himself because he could not criticise customers openly on a forum .....


    Yes, I am angry about this man, angry that he runs away from his responsibilities to Butterfly and Barnacle, angry because he hides behind others and snipes at his customers. The man just makes up any figures on any subject he likes and then repeats them as if he was an authority on the subject.

    His design capabilities do not even stretch as far as making a functional tender yet he continues to invent models and claims that boats that are not his are somehow Fastcats!!

    OK, I feel better now that I have vented a bit ...... I just hope Google manages to prevent any more victims.
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Simply Amazing Customer Support

    Paul,

    You need to go stick you're toes in the sand and relax some before you let this guy stroke you out!
    I know you are trying to help the un-suspecting not to fall into a trap, but I googled something about catamarans yesterday and Fastcats came up on top. He must be paying the big bucks to get listed high on the search engines now!:

    John
    "The floggings will continue until morale improves"!

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Simply Amazing Customer Support

    Having suffered one one boat with a rogue trader myself, I really feel for Dick and Karen on Butterfly plus basically all his other two customers to date because despite all the BS he spouts he has only delivered 3 boats plus one rib that we know about.

    The fact that this man cannot even manage to design a workable tender and they are faced with having to possibly give it away after no proper use at all is simply amazing stuff.

    The only pleasing thing is that Karen and Dick seemed to have risen above it to enjoy their cruising and that is good.
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

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    Default Re: Simply Amazing Customer Support

    Has that so called rogue trader "TRADER" recently gone out of business I think I read somewhere.

    Love the bit in the first post about the horizontal metal wind sock, not heard that one before.

    I too admire Dick and Karen's ability to see through this and hope they eventually sort all the crap out and really enjoy themselves, they deserve it.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Simply Amazing Customer Support

    Yes - they have gone out of business leaving a number of people with deposits etc an no boats in a bit of a mess.

    I am thinking of now making the Fastcat video of our experiences over there. It would be a popular video to watch.

    We flew over to test sail one and Gideon could not work the magic he wanted on us - we held back but he told us to look at the wind sock about 1/2 mile away which was horizontal and claimed it was too windy to sail.

    The next day when we had arranged to sail he failed to contact us on time and when we by accident walked past him in the marina we again asked for the test sail (I had spent over 1k just on the trip to see the boat and wanted the promised test sail). He then pointed out it was too windy but we pointed out that on the previous evening we had walked to the wind sock and it was a simple metal one that only showed direction and was always at 90 degrees!!!!

    We then basically forced a test sail which was so bad as to almost put Lesley off the whole idea of a cat.

    We had the experience of one major rip off on us and so could smell the same thing - especially the owner of hull one who I was told was in love with the boat and experienced on her only to find:-
    1. He had never sailed her.

    2. He cleaned bilges out on Gideons boat and was not really in the bracket to be able to afford one. I nice young lad though who I fear is another victim.

    What was difficult to grasp was the distance from the truth - most people would not be able to carry on like that, but this one can!
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Simply Amazing Customer Support

    Please make "THE VIDEO" I am sure many others would also be interested,

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Simply Amazing Customer Support

    I will depending on the outcome of Butterfly & Barnacle.

    It will be their call.

    Attached is THE windsock.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Simply Amazing Customer Support

    Gideon has reacted to me on this matter by email.
    He wrote
    Hallo Paul how come you are lying so much ?

    I have done you no harm and there is no windsock in Ijmuiden that I have ever pointed out to you.
    I did show you the boat on Saturday and although I had other appointments for Sunday I did make arrangements to see you and sail with you.
    The electronic sign displaying the weather in front of the Marina showed wind force between 7 and 8 on Saturday and as you had told me you had no sailing experience whatsoever I did not find it wise to take you out on a stormy day.

    You are trying to harm me but you are not doing yourself any good by doing this , It cannot feel right to make false accusations and tell lies on your own forum.

    Gideon
    I replied
    Gideon
    So at least you visit the forum.

    You pointed out the wind sock to us on the Saturday.
    We even walked to it Saturday evening to discover it was always horizontal.
    That is why we have many images of it.

    I am angry, I am angry at the way you are treating Dick and Karen who are now probably going to have to give their rib away.

    The wrong you have done them is great and I will do all I can to support them.

    What is your excuse for the rib?

    I am really holding back a lot because my future actions depend on your further actions with them.

    Whilst you contributed to the forum, I never posted anything against you because I thought that was unfair - you decided to leave and so I felt free.

    I have suffered with someone else, just like Dick and Karen are suffering at your hands and I can tell you that I really feel for them.

    In my view the best thing you could do is clear up all matters with them and I for one would then have some respect for you doing that.

    A start would be to refund them for the rib and accept there was a problem - that would stop a lot of your critics in their path.

    Paul
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Simply Amazing Customer Support

    Blimey. What's that phrase...something about pots...kettles...black...?

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Simply Amazing Customer Support

    I have found in life. What goes around comes around. What pi$$es me off is that I am not usually there to see it. Hearing about it isn't the same satisfaction.........i2f

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Simply Amazing Customer Support

    As I know Gideon is reading this thread I would just like to add that we did explain to Gideon that we had been sailing ten years in large power boats and had no problem with heavy seas after already being in some very heavy ones.

    At no time was it considered that we would be worried about the seas even though Gideon did indicate on a form later that he chose not to sell us the boat because we were not experienced enough

    Lesley and I both heard Gideon explain the wind sock and we even went to investigate it and took about 6 images of it .... it was not our imagination.

    Nor was it our imagination when Gideon told us before we arrived that owner number 1 was, by luck, there in the Marina and was overjoyed with the boat and its performance but we were to discover that he had not sailed her before!!!

    Nor on day 2 did Gideon keep his meeting with us - we bumped into him by accident in the marina and so made it almost impossible for him not to do the sea trial.

    The boat we saw was in poor condition, poorly finished and with damp patches and bit broken. We were not allowed to go on boat number 2 that was a few yards away.

    We were told that almost 20 were sold but we could have hull number 13 and that would be ready by 2010. So it seems there are about one boat a month to be launched between now and then.

    Yet with all that Gideon calls me the liar. He is truly amazing.
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Simply Amazing Customer Support

    Quote Originally Posted by ForumAdmin View Post
    Gideon did indicate on a form later that he chose not to sell us the boat because we were not experienced enough
    I like that!
    Please, please Mr. Madoff (oops sorry), Mr. Gideon can I PLEASE buy a boat from you..... you see, I know it's a really exclusive boat but I HAVE TO HAVE ONE!

    John
    "The floggings will continue until morale improves"!

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Simply Amazing Customer Support

    Gideon has emailed me.
    His response provides figures for the sale of the rib and a testimonial from a happy customer. I feel his side of the story should be heard so I have copied his email and my response here:-
    Hallo Paul

    At least we can talk but lying that I came to the harbor by accident is no good
    I cancelled 2 appointments to come and sail with you on Sunday.
    I am doing all that is possible to help Karin and Dick so they are becoming happy.
    There is no use for me to have unhappy clients.
    They have never paid for the rib so a refund is not in order
    A 2.7 meter rib was included and that was exchanged for no extra money for the 3.6 Catalite rib with their approval
    When they received the rib they were very please and you can read in their weblog somewhere in November last year.
    I have got several customers very pleased with this same type rib
    A compliment I received yesterday from a owner of a brand new Atlantic 57 build in Chili wrote me the following

    I am translating from Dutch and have asked for permission to quote him
    Hallo Gideon,

    We zijn weer terug in nl, alles goed, boot ligt in Panama.
    De dinghy is uitstekend bevallen ! Hij ligt erg stevig op het water, trackt erg goed en is mooi hoog. Ook spat er veel minder water op dan bij dinghy's die wij hiervoor hebben gehad.

    Wij hebben wel moeite met de ophangpunten, omdat de moter in de weg zat bij het naar boven takelen. Dit vergt wat handigheid.

    zal je binnenkort wat foto's sturen.

    Hoe is het verder met de botenbouw ?

    groeten ron

    Hallo Gideon

    We are back in the Netherlands all is well the boat is in Panama
    The Dingy is excellent ! it is very firm on the water , tracks well and is nice and high, also are we getting a lot less water in than any previous dingy we have ever had.
    We have some problems with the attachments for the davits in the rear because the engine is in the way when bringing her up this takes a bit of handyness.
    I will shortly send you some pictures.
    How is all going in the boat building ?

    Greetings

    Gideon

    He is one of 5 people that have the identical Rib to the one that Karen and Dick have and all are extremely happy.
    Karen and Dick have now got a different type of RIB but had they told me in Durban where they tried and used the rib for about 3 months that they were not happy I would have taken it back. First taking the Rib across the ocean and 8 months after delivery of the RIB telling me it is no good is a different story.
    ( I have offered them to exchange the used RIB for a V type rib but they had to pay for shipping from the carib. )

    I was in Ijmuiden last week and have yet to find that wind sock !! There is a LED sign that tells forecast and wind strength ( I pointed that out to you )and on that Saturday it was between 7 and 8 and for people without any sailing experience as you had told me it is poor judgment to go out.

    So far I have offered Karen and Dick all needed to get their boat in excellent shape and many parts have been send and will be send when ready to fix whatever needs fixing .
    I am also paying for any repair or installation cost for items not good installed or faulty.
    I have always told them that and will always stand by that.
    I am a very service oriented person and that will never change, I only want happy customers and nothing but that.
    That includes Karen and Dick and my other customers, you say many times that I have got no happy customers but that is also not thru . both other customers are happy with their boat, I cannot help that one of these customers has got a credit crisis problem, I wish I could.

    Did you know that I paid for their stay in Durban , that they have received many extra,s for free as compensation for being late , in excess of 50.000,00 ?
    For instance the longer bow and many other items.
    Yes I visit the forum because sometimes there is something interesting for me to read but you can see that if you want.
    I like your forum but there is really no place for a producer on the forum.


    You are telling me you are holding a lot back but keep one thing in mind slander like you are doing ( I believe that is the right word ) is not allowed and punishable by law in Europe even on the internet.

    Do keep in mind that with every boat or product things do go wrong and can break, it is about the service afterworlds not about the breaking of things
    In mean while I wish you well and happy sailing with your fantastic St Francis 50.


    Gideon
    My response
    Gideon
    It is important that your side of the story be heard so I am publishing your response on my site - that is only fair to you.

    I wish to deal with some points:-
    The Rib
    You state you have sold 5 and offer a testimonial from one customer.
    I am making sure the testimonial and your response are published.
    I will then leave the matter of the rib - its up to Karen and Dick to respond if they wish.
    I have simply reported what they have written.
    They say it was paid for as part of an Ocean Passage Kit.
    I now understand you have in total sold 5 ribs.
    I do not know where the claim for 20 came from. maybe other can source that claim.

    Our Visit
    On the second day you failed to return a call and we were walking in the Marina only to walk right by you and hence meet you by accident.
    That is what happened. I am not lying.

    Can you really blame me for my comments when we were told we could meet the first Fast Cat owner only to find he had never sailed the boat?
    Only to find that he had cleaned the bilges on the your boat and asked for approval from you?
    Can you blame me for stating that you did try to sell us a boat and offered us your own slot and then later publish that you refused to sell us the boat because we were not experienced enough - that is what you wrote on CF forum!!

    You did point out the windsock and we even made sure we walked up to it and took many photographs.
    There is simply no reason why we would have done that if it had not been pointed out to us.
    I did not see any electron wind indicator.

    As regards the costs of meeting Karen and Dicks repairs etc then that is all anyone can ask for.
    I will copy this thread to them and leave it up to them to comment.
    If you are doing all you state then then world should know about it so as to correct the impression that everyone is receiving.

    You claim you are a service orientated person and must therefore understand that it is vital that you clear up Dick and Karen's issues that they declare on their blog.
    Doing that would earn you respect.
    Every boat has problems and my new boat will be no exception - its the way they are cleared up that matters.

    For the record - what I am holding back on is a video. I really do not want to spend time editing something that my heart is not into but would do so if it helped Dick and Karen.

    You say you like my forum but its no place for a producer but we have many active producers/designers/sellers taking part and I think they are all welcomed.
    Our members are real world people who can sort out their own perspective and understand when someone has a commercial interest. In fact we dinf that producers act in the most honourable of ways and there has been no friction at all on the issues.

    If you started posting again, I would stop commenting on any aspect of you or your products. I am not trying to persecute of you - I am reacting in anger to what I read from your customers and my own experience. You would get more than a fair hearing on our forum but you would not get the protection you get on CF where threads critical to you are closed.

    Answer this:-
    Why is it that our forum is not a place for a producer but CF forum is a place for a producer?

    By the way what you refer to as slander is what would be libel. Slander is spoken. Libel is written.
    No slander or libel can exist if what is spoken/written is the truth.

    I am offering you the chance to join this thread properly and deal with the issues against you.
    That also has the advantage of shutting me up.

    Paul
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Simply Amazing Customer Support

    I found the reference Gideon.

    In CF you wrote
    about 20 other owners own a rib produced by us
    greetings
    So are there 15 other owners with a different rib produced by you?

    You must understand that it does get confusing when you rename other boats as your make when in fact they are not your make at all.
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

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    Default Re: Simply Amazing Customer Support

    His response by email was
    Good Afternoon Paul

    We have sold 5 of the identical ribs in the identical size as Dick and Karen have received and the commend given to you was for that same size. In we have sold many more ribs mostly to people that like light weight for their boat.
    The 20 Ribs sold are actually many more than 20 but do not forget we make 6 different sizes and models and 3 of those can also be purchased as sailing ribs so these cannot all be compared.
    It has no use to get commends from people that Own different types.
    I have the contract here and the 2.7 meter V shape RIB was part of the Ocean crossing package no more or less.
    One the first day we met in the marina I decided that it was not the right day for sailing and you agreed with me , Andreas was present there as was your wife Lesley ( I hope I recall her name well )
    That same day I made an appointment with you to sail the next day or at least see if the weather was better (less wind )
    I asked Andreas if he was willing to sail with us the next day and that was fine with him
    It seems to me you have a selective memory , my wife even quarreled with me for having to cancel my other appointments.
    Andreas , the owner of the African Innovation had sailed his boat on 3 different occasions prior to you meeting him.
    I still feel that telling you that the FastCat 445 is not the right boat for you stands, you told me that you wanted lots of extra,s like a washing machine , dishwasher , dryer, studio and lots of other things, the FastCat is a performance oriented cruiser and that point is decimated if one ads a lot of weight .
    It is also a boat that needs a experienced sailor and you told me you where not and your wife wanted to do as little as possible regarding the sailing.
    That made me write you that the FastCat was not your kind of boat, that is just my opinion,

    I have not seen a windsock but I did point out to you the electronic weather forecast sign when walking to the boat after lunch with the alternating wind force between 7 and 8.

    As far as I am concerned you do not have to shut up on the forum , it is your top do with as you please but be honest and try to see things from both sides.

    Have a good weekend

    Gideon
    My answer was:-
    Gideon
    I asked for clarification on the rib and you have answered.
    I have published that answer.

    You agreed to contact me the next day - after not hearing I phoned you and you said you would return the call after claiming it was too rough and after me telling you it was not.
    Having not heard from you we decided to go for a walk and it was then we passed you near the marina.

    The owner of hull 0 as you called it told us in front of you he had not sailed her - he was clearly a case of a young lad trying to do all he could to please you.
    However we have now flogged that subject to death.

    You clearly offered me your boat slot telling me that light weight dishwashers etc could be bought.

    I do not accept that had I produced my cheque book you would not have accepted the order.

    I did not know that Fastcats required 'experienced sailors - we were not experienced at the sail bit of sailing but we are learning fast.

    The sea we went out in was a slight chop - no more. I have the video. We have experienced 18 foot waves packed together off the Cornish coast - your claim that it was too rough for us is simply not true.

    We agree - the Fastcat is not my type of boat.

    For the last time there is a wind sock I will publish a set of images on the web site to prove it.

    I am trying to see things from both sides. If you went ahead now and fully answered Butterfly's blog points then you would be able to openly present your side.
    You fail to do this.
    They are not happy bunnies and nor are hull 1 customers looking at their blog.

    Openly deal with the problems and respect will start to return.

    As it is, there ius a lot of negative stuff out there from your customers and you are not dealing with it .... just my opinion.
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

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    Default Re: Simply Amazing Customer Support

    For the record here are more pictures of the wind sock - we have no fix on wind socks but thought it amusing that it was used to show how windy it was.

    Please observe the sea state in one of the images - not even much of a chop really.

    I have now decided to put a sock in it as this subject has been pretty well discussed and I really want nobody to think its a phobia of ours
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

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    Default Re: Simply Amazing Customer Support

    This is Gideon;s response:-
    Hallo Paul

    This was my answer to you after meeting you that weekend, it should be on your computer.
    The Owner had really sailed her 3 times before meeting you. once even his father came along. I have proof of that.
    If you read his weblog it will verify that.
    The Owner of hull 1 and 2 are both happy , at least they are telling me that.
    I really made a appointment to see you on Sunday to see if the weather was good enough to sail , I know clearly because it cost me a argument with my wife.
    I am in contact with Dick regarding issues and we have both come to the conclusion there is somewhat of a language barrier or problem.
    Had you pulled your check book I am pretty sure I would have refused it since again I do this for fun and my fun is improving the cats in general and putting the stick higher as I go along, money is not important for me , I do not want to lose on the boats I produce but producing them is the only way to further innovate.
    If I had accepted your check so to speak I would not have done you or myself a favor and that is not the right idea.
    On a FastCat you have to work and it is not good in carrying a big load, it can be done but the performance goes down and you might as well get a charter type of cat.

    In the beginning I told you, you could have my slot where we to come to a agreement . since you wanted to get the boat as fast as possible but after talking to you and Lesley I thought this was not your type of boat.
    In the future when we meet again and the world is small come for a sail and you will see that she is a great and performance oriented sailor.
    Not like a St Francis but an excellent 44 ft cat

    Have a good weekend

    Gideon
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

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    Default Re: Simply Amazing Customer Support

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAS THE PROPELLER TURNS

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    Default Re: Simply Amazing Customer Support


  20. #20
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    Default Re: Simply Amazing Customer Support

    Greetings Gideon
    In response to your latest email.

    I agree you did send me an email afterwards stating it was not the right boat go us but that was after we had decided it was not the right boat for us

    We did not make all this up - we do not travel to Holland for two days a trip that cost us over 1000 to take photographs of wind socks ... that may be hard to believe but I swear it is true

    The same lad who was too honest to lie to us is one that according to you and his own blog is now short of cash and cannot afford to use the boat. I just cannot help feeling that the boat was not right for him either.

    You did mention that you were in trouble with your wife - I agree with that but we had arranged to come to have a sea trial and spent 3 days of our time and money to investigate your boat - you had agreed to give us a sea trial andew were amazed when on the first day we did not get one. The sea state was not a problem - after 9 years sailing from the Bristol Channel with its 40 foot tidal range, it looked calm to us.

    We agree again - the world is small and that is why I look forward to you clearing up your language problems with Karen and Dick and sorting out their problems so that your customer service can demonstrate to all how good it really is. One thing is sure - until you satisfy them, a big cloud will hang over your head in the multihull community.

    So lets forget all this 'difference of opinion' of the events that happened between us - they are really not important. Putting your customers boats right is important and that is at the very heart of the problem.
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

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