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Thread: Simply Amazing Customer Support

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Simply Amazing Customer Support

    Hi guys ...

    My goodness, what a rumpus! Yet the internet is full of these sorts of rumpusi (?!) - much of them signifying nothing and achieving even less.

    But for most people the truth is important in itself. If someone says something you know to be false, you want to put the version of events you hold to be true. It's obvious Paul and many of you feel that way. There is also something in most people that admires, approves and has confidence in - those whom we feel tell the truth. By contrast, we are suspicious of those who appear to kick it around to suit their own purposes. Those who seem to swivel the facts and avoid answering direct questions with direct answers. Those who when asked "difficult" questions, simply don't answer at all. Liars are certainly not generally liked. They are not trusted. They instill a sense of outrage. They are despised. Ultimately, they are the author of their own misfortunes.

    But here is the rub: the truth is only the reality you choose to believe. You can't make someone agree with your version of reality. Here we have Paul proving (I think, beyond a shadow of a doubt) with empirical evidence - with photos - that there is a windsock made of metal in or around Ijmuiden marina. Gideon, on the other hand denies it. Claims he has no knowledge of it. Yet he lives near there and is a frequent visitor to the area. So why is he saying there is no sock, and that he made no reference to it, when Paul has already proved there is a sock and claims Gideon did? Who is right and whom do you believe?

    But then, why does Gideon swear blind that our boat weighed 9200 kg when both Dick and I, standing directly beside him, saw 9400 kg on the readout? Gideon remains adamant on his figure; we on ours. Again, who is right and whom do you believe?

    Why does Gideon say, and I quote:
    They have never paid for the rib so a refund is not in order
    ... When we know full well we paid for a rib as part and parcel of the Ocean Crossing Package? Who is right and whom do you believe?

    Why does he then appear to contradict himself by continuing with:

    A 2.7 meter rib was included and that was exchanged for no extra money for the 3.6 Catalite rib with their approval
    Was the 2.7 meter rib included free of charge or was it paid for as part of the Ocean Crossing Package? What is he saying here exactly? We know we paid for a rib. Full stop. Who is right and whom do you believe?

    So let's wrap this darn rib thing up (somebody wrap it up please, and take it away!)

    • to make it absolutely clear. The original 2.7 meter rib was NOT a freebie. It had to be paid for. It HAS been paid for. It was part and parcel of his self-styled "Ocean Crossing Package."


    • Yes Gideon has offered to exchange it for another version, but we think that would be a backward step, so have politely declined his offer.


    • If Gideon has found other owners who are wetting their socks with excitement at the pleasure of owning such a thing. Hooray! Good luck to them. We couldn't be more thrilled. But that doesn't alter the fact we're not. Ours is very much a prototype both in performance and finish. Stick it alongside our new AB and it looks homemade and shoddy. It certainly doesn't perform as well either. If you want to know all the reasons why we don't like it - so much so that we have gone to the not-inconsiderable expense of buying another make altogether - then please read Dick's report over at Cruisers Forum. I think you'll find it's well balanced and puts both pros and cons fairly.


    • Gideon says:
      had they told me in Durban where they tried and used the rib for about 3 months that they were not happy I would have taken it back. First taking the Rib across the ocean and 8 months after delivery of the RIB telling me it is no good is a different story.

    ( I have offered them to exchange the used RIB for a V type rib but they had to pay for shipping from the carib. )
    Let's put this in its correct context: In Durban we saw the rib, tried it once and that was that. It was strung up on the davitts and left there - until, that was, we arrived in St Helena, where we discovered its shortcomings. Anthony who joined us on the trip has written a delivery report and he found the rib less than satisfactory too.

    But not trying it out further in Durban was definitely our cock-up. However, as we have explained elsewhere and in the blog, there were so many problems with Butterfly, so many frustrating things going on trying to get her finished at all, the anger and dismay at finding Gideon's manager, Steven Stoole, had been busy hiding serious faults from us, telling his staff not to tell us - that our focus was not on the rib at the time. I will tell you the details of Steven's attempts at deception another time. The fact was compared to all the flack we had with the big boat, the rib wasn't top of the agenda at all. So in a way, Gideon is absolutely right - it was our mistake not trying it out more before we left Durban.

    In Gideon's defence, some of the difficulty with his rather different versions of the truth might be that he appears not to spend enough time and care in his choice of phrasing. Perhaps he doesn't realise that what he is saying is misleading in the extreme. For example, what he means (I am guessing here) is that we didn't pay for the so-called upgrade to a larger, slightly different type of rib. And he may well be right. But trying to pin Gideon down to precisely what cost what and which items were chargeable, and which he had generously thrown in without charge (and to his credit, he did provide some things without cost to us) and those he was now charging for which we thought we should not be billed for - proved impossible. We simply gave up and settled for keeping an eye on the bottom line. You have seen here and no doubt on Cruisers Forum how the information you are given by Gideon keeps shifting, keeps changing shape. What was true yesterday, is not what is true today - or so it seems. When challenged the details get cloaked in new swirling figures that fly off the page with unseemly haste and yet you can't pin things down to empirical facts that he is willing to stand by. Figures get bandied around but the parameters are always on the move. It becomes impossible to establish a clear picture. When you ask a direct question - again, check out Gideon's lack of responses at critical times on the forums - it is frequently never answered. Gideon has some excellent qualities (don't we all?!) - but the frustrations of trying to establish from him what is true and what is not - can turn you into a total headbanger.

    All we want is to get Butterfly finished, put right the defects and faulty installations and get down to some serious cruising. So let's just clear up these last points:

    So far I have offered Karen and Dick all needed to get their boat in excellent shape and many parts have been send and will be send when ready to fix whatever needs fixing .
    I am also paying for any repair or installation cost for items not good installed or faulty.
    After some vigorous discussion, that is indeed what Gideon has promised in these last few days. We trust he realises it is in his interests to ensure those promises hold good.
    Did you know that I paid for their stay in Durban , that they have received many extra,s for free as compensation for being late , in excess of 50.000,00 ?
    For instance the longer bow and many other items.
    50.000,00? How do we prove that? Does anybody else believe this figure? Of course, it might be true, it might not. But this bring me back to the start of this post. If you don't pay enough attention to providing accurate facts and figures when replying in forums and emails, and instead earn a reputation for playing fast and loose with them, please don't be surprised if people's instincts are to doubt you all the time - even on those occasions when you are telling the truth. The Boy Who Cried Wolf, anyone?

    So, for the record: Gideon did pay for our bed and breakfast bill. He did not, as he informed Paul, pay for our rental car throughout. He did not compensate for 9 months lost earnings. He did not inform us that the boat was so hopelessly behind schedule we would be waiting out in S.A for months. He did not tell us his project manager would try to hide from us, the corroding wind generator, the leaking engine compartment, the failure to commission the autopilot system, the electrolysis on the mast foot. Some of these problems we discovered ourselves; some we learned about because some of Gideon's other staff were so upset about Steven Stoole's duplicity, they informed us by anonymous email and SMS messages. One of those staff has now been sacked.

    Lastly (phew!) - If Gideon holds good to his promise to ensure all warranty items are put right and paid for by AfricanCats - including the faulty installations of equipment, if he honours his pledge to turn Butterfly into a perfect boat, then we will applaud him for coming good in the end and say as much publiclly. If he doesn't, then we will also report this - and publicly.

    One thing I must point out is that we know Butterfly is a lovely sailing boat. She bombs along in the lightest of winds - the difficulty, if there is one, is slowing her down when things get hectic, not speeding her up. We also know that all the faults we know about can be put right - which is why we are determined to stick with her. She's had such a troubled start in life, but with determination and a will to do so, she can come good.


    Now back to the sewing machine and those cockpit cushions!

    Karen
    Last edited by Karen; 24th July 2009 at 11:26 PM.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Simply Amazing Customer Support

    Quote Originally Posted by Karen View Post
    If Gideon holds good to his promise to ensure all warranty items are put right and paid for by AfricanCats - including the faulty installations of equipment, if he honours his pledge to turn Butterfly into a perfect boat, then we will applaud him for coming good in the end and say as much publiclly. If he doesn't, then we will also report this - and publicly.

    Karen
    Karen,
    Thank you for posting the facts.
    Let us know if Gideon keeps his promise (this time).

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Simply Amazing Customer Support

    Well Gideon it is obvious that Karen and Dick do like the boat - they things that are wrong with it can be corrected and you have a chance to put it right and have the most important customer you will ever have sing the praises of the boat.

    I hope that all items are put right and you give them the perfect boat you promised. That would be the best outcome for everyone and I wish you all the best to achieve that goal.
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Simply Amazing Customer Support

    Gideon sent this email
    On 24 Jul 2009, at 20:42, gideon goudsmit wrote:

    I sure agree with you Paul in getting the customers boat as it should be , great.

    The sea state is another thing, it was up to force 8 that day and I know better than anyone I know how that effects the entrance of the Ijmuiden piers and harbor and it was just not wise to sail with a inexperienced crew.



    Have a good weekend

    Gideon
    p.s. send me a picture of that wind sock please I am curious, I cannot get to see the pictures on your forum since I am not a member
    I replied:-
    Gideon
    You had yourself and the other experienced chap who owned the other Fastcat and you even offered him to teach us to sail.
    So you had two experienced crew - how many does it take?
    I have attached a picture but you still are a member of the forum as not to make you a member removed the signature from all your previous posts.
    Cheers
    Paul
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

  5. #25

    Default Re: Simply Amazing Customer Support

    p.s. send me a picture of that wind sock please I am curious, I cannot get to see the pictures on your forum since I am not a member
    Too damn bad! All of a sudden his withdraw from this forum is causing him problems and he seeks help? Hell no. You have already allowed him access, in direct violation of what his wishes were until this thread started, and let him put his spin on things. If it were not for Dick and Karen potentially benefiting from it by way of their boat possibly getting the plethora of problems fixed, I wouldn't grant him the time of day. We know what exists. And we all can draw intelligent conclusions as to how truthful some people are.

    He thought for sooooo long that his gas-lighting banter could run rampant because of the CF clowns editing and closing threads and allowing his repeated rules violations by way of unsolicited marketing posts, and all of a sudden he sees a need to protect his hobby that has all the back-log he needs? Tough titty. He dug his hole, and he can climb out on his own. I'm quite sure Dick and Karen will be more than happy to report back when all of their issues are put to rest. Until then, he can pound dirt.

    Absolutely amazing. I have a hard time just processing all the BS I have read from him over the past few years, and then I read about all the cover-ups from his production manager and more of what I can only conclude as lies. The gall of some people...

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Simply Amazing Customer Support

    I fully appreciate all your points.

    I think my objective of a flag being pinned to a mast has been achieved.
    I hope it has reinforced in Gideon's mind that there is a lot of support for Karen and Dick and that should they not up happy bunnies there will be a price to pay. If on the other hand they do end up happy then frankly my objective has been achieved.

    He nor anyone else involved with multihulls will ever be barred from the forum because members, just like yourself, can make their own judgements. Any form of censorship just gets in the way of that.

    This forum, as a specialist multihull forum is growing in power by the day. Gideon can choose to ignore it at his own peril.

    I know that some manufacturers were worried about the open nature of the forum because they too have problems with new boats - in my view most new boats have problems. In fact I have only ever had one car in my life without problems. Its the way the problems are dealt with that matters.This is a lesson that Gideon has to learn.

    I cannot speak on behalf of the forum or members because we are all individuals. However, I can promise that if Gideon does not deal with Karen & Dick in a fair manner there will be a massive publicity campaign by myself to demonstrate the problems and that will include a video production.

    All I aim to do here is support Karen and Dick and I hope this thread has gone some way towards nailing Gideon's flag to the mast (or should I say sock to the mast) on the issue.

    He has still not answered the question as to why this forum is not suitable for producers whilst the CF forum is suitable.......
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Simply Amazing Customer Support

    On 25 Jul 2009, at 10:33, gideon goudsmit wrote:

    Hallo Paul with force 8 Coming in from the north west I do not do test sails, I was the only experienced crew member on board , Andreas can sail well but had little experience with Cats at that time.
    You are telling me the waves that you went to see where not very high and that is right since the pier protects the beach where you where staying
    When we went out the next day with a lot less wind the waves at the pier mouth where around 2 meters not high at all but the wind was still strong enough
    I do not know of any shipyard that will take a boat out in force 8 for a test sail , it is not smart or safe to do so.
    The wind sock is new to me , I come to Ijmuiden often but do not recall seeing it. The electronic sign that I posted out to you when walking to the boat cannot be missed , it gives actual and forecast 24 hours per day and I cannot tell by seeing a windsock what the wind speed is only direction.

    Have a good weekend

    Gideon
    I replied:-

    Gideon
    You may have forgotten but you did point to the wind mast in explaining how windy it was.
    We then assumed it was a fabric wind sock and that it was horizontal because of the wind.
    That is why we inspected it. Please think - why else would we have taken so many photographs of it.

    I think you have forgotten, so let the subject drop.

    Can you please answer my simple question.
    Why do you think our forum is not a place for 'producers' whilst you continue on CF forum and so must think they are a suitable place?

    I am asking just that one simple question and would like an answer.

    Cheers

    Paul
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Simply Amazing Customer Support

    On 25 Jul 2009, at 12:06, gideon goudsmit wrote:

    Hallo Paul any forum is fine but I feel that discussions with customers should be between the producer and the customer and there is no place on the forum for that.
    On the Cruisers Forum I only post news under the vendors forum part like our new Dyneema webbing in more mesh sizes or the build of the new 60 + FastCat
    And the Green Motion system

    Greetings

    Gideon
    I responded:-
    Gideon
    As I see it you post claims and when they are challenged you get protected with the thread being closed or responses deleted.
    In fact these disagreements are not from customers but from others.
    I do not know of a customer having a go at you on this forum either - again it was others disputing your claims.

    Do you think you should be able to make claims and when those claims are challenged not respond?

    Cheers
    Paul
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Simply Amazing Customer Support

    I only post news under the vendors forum
    That is simply not true.
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

  10. #30

    Default Re: Simply Amazing Customer Support

    I only post news under the vendors forum
    Okay, I'm 100% convinced; He's delusional.

  11. #31
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    Default Re: Simply Amazing Customer Support

    Gideon has responded:-

    Hallo Paul

    I always respond unless I am not available to do so,
    I have never tried to close a tread or have been involved in any response that was deleted.
    I am not in touch with any of the cruisers forum owners .
    I do not mind that claims of me are disputed but only in a correct or fair way.
    You should know that whenever you have asked me anything at all I have come back to you.

    Have a good evening

    Gideon
    My response
    Gideon
    I am not saying that you were in contact with the owners.

    I agree the disagreements were with others not the owners ... that is my point!

    The issue was that I, as just one example could not get answers from you an when I tried to get an answer, I was stopped by forum administration.

    So bad was this that I left because of the way the forum was administered and I set up this forum.

    You stopped using this forum when the questioning got tough and again this was not from owners.

    Lets face it, there are only three owners. Two write blogs which are not good for you or your reputation and it seems the third is in over their heads having progressed from cleaning your bilges for you to leaving their boat to have to work on a cruise liner to make ends meet!!!!

    So there is hardly a good track record of peaceful bliss left in your wake is there?

    And how confusing is it to those who do not know better to see you advertise a Fastcat 48 when in reality it is a St Francis 48?
    Doing that sort of thing invites trouble.

    The reason you do not contribute to our forum cannot be for the reasons you have given.
    It can only be because you are asked direct questions that you do not wish to answer and there is no protective shield around you to protect you.

    In my opinion you cannot survive long carrying on the way you do. The world wide web makes communication so easy that you cannot get away with any untruths are exposed.

    You say you do not mind claims being disputed as long as it is correct or fair...

    Have I not in this very thread given a fair representation of the views of Karen and Dick?
    I started by quoting them from their blog.

    The fact is that they find the rib so bad they have had to buy another make and they did pay for the rib as part of a package - it is not true to say they did not pay. Is it?

    No you have not always come back to me to answer ... on CF I was always stopped in my tracks but here you can.

    Answer these questions:-

    1. Did Dick/Karen pay for the rib as part of an Ocean Crossing package?
    2. Do you accept they find the rib of unacceptable quality?
    3. Do you agree that it is sub standard?
    4. Are you willing to refund them the price the paid within that package for the smaller rib?

    Cheers
    Paul
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Simply Amazing Customer Support

    Half fast shooting himself in the foot, then taking dead aim at the other.

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Simply Amazing Customer Support

    He's delusional yes o yes... jono
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  14. #34
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    Default Re: Simply Amazing Customer Support

    Jono
    (I will PM you later re News)
    I think it is more like, he has his head up his....... Picture says it all

  15. #35
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    Default Re: Simply Amazing Customer Support

    Gideon writes:-
    On 26 Jul 2009, at 10:36, gideon goudsmit wrote:

    Good Afternoon Paul

    I never stopped you on the cruisers forum or had anything to do with that.
    I stopped because the forum takes too much of my time and I get tired of people trying to attack me while all I am working on is making cats better sailing boats.
    For better you can read , more comfortable, faster , better payload stronger, less bridge deck slamming etc.

    There are too many people on the forum that do not understand that if one wants to improve , it costs time , targets are not always met in time , weights that I am trying to achieve are not always met,

    For instance the Green Motion propulsion system takes a lot longer than originally intended and that is for many reasons like improving the system further, the main reason is that suppliers that give contractual dates of delivery are not met, For instance the digital controllers were supposed to be ready on June first, this is delayed twice for a total of 3 months, that does not stop me from building boats but it does stop me from launching and testing the Green eMotion.
    As you are well aware many parts coming from a total of 12 suppliers make a system like that an getting all noses in the same direction is hard.
    Building a boat in basalt fiber for instance also takes a lot of effort, not only to build it but to get the material approved for CE certification.
    I have a very small business and it takes a lot to achieve all these innovations.
    Many of your members only seem to be able to knock innovations or the effort to innovate , that is not my cup of tea, if all people acted like that the wheel would not have been invented yet.

    The owner of the third boat worked on cruise boats before and is doing that since he needs to make a living , not all are so fortunate to be able to just cruise specially people of around 30 years of age.

    The St Francis 48 is actually called a Africa St Francis 48 as agreed with Duncan Lethbridge the owner of St Francis marine
    I have never called it a FastCat and have never said it was produced by my company.


    To come back to your questions regarding the RIB

    1. Did Dick/Karen pay for the rib as part of an Ocean Crossing package? A 2.7 v shaped rib is part of the package
    2. Do you accept they find the rib of unacceptable quality? They can find that but I do not.
    3. Do you agree that it is sub standard? Again I do not agree and other owners agree
    4. Are you willing to refund them the price the paid within that package for the smaller rib?
    If they had told me in Durban the rib was not to their liking I would have refunded it but taking a 8 month old rib back and shipping it half way around the world.
    No I do not. And that request would be extremely unreasonable. Try to give your car back to a dealership after 8 months possession having picked it up in the UK and leaving it off 5000 miles away and tell the salesman that you want full refund and the shipping cost need to be paid by the dealership because of not liking the rib, I would call a psychiatric institution for the person asking.

    Greetings

    Gideon
    I respond:-
    Gideon
    I repeat I have never accused you of stopping me on CF - the administration did that - they stopped ongoing discussions time after time.

    In my opinion your reputation is suffering a great deal and you do need to address the issues raised on the forum. That is only my opinion.
    If you do not act I think down the road you may have no boat business with which to experiment.

    "There are too many people on the forum that do not understand that if one wants to improve , it costs time , targets are not always met in time , weights that I am trying to achieve are not always met"

    That is normal. What is not normal is to claim weights that are not true. Its as if you fix a theory in your head and stick to that theoretical weight rather than accept the scale reading in front of you. What else could explain you and the owners of Butterfly and Barnacle looking at the same scale and reading two differing weights!!?

    Of course developing green motion takes time, of course its delayed that is always the case in development work - that is not the issue.
    The issue is how you treat existing customers with non-green motion boats.
    The issue is how you claim cruising speeds different to your own log and then lose the log, deleting it from your web site.

    The SF48 was called a Fastcat 48 on your web site for years.... a simple fact that cannot be denied.

    No - the members of the forum welcome innovation but demand the truth alongside it. I hope one day you can see the simplicity of that.

    Thank you for partly answering my questions.

    Q1. I assume your answer is yes they did pay - this goes against what you stated earlier in this discussion.

    Q2. You did not answer but i think you accept thet they think its sub standard.
    You do not. This means that the rowlocks falling off, the inability to row it because the side tubes are far out the water etc are all not accepted by you?
    Please explain why you dispute those claims.

    Q3. You gave a clear answer so you think all the faults are in their imagination.

    Q4. You refuse a refund.
    Comparing it to a car - if I had made only 5 cars and I had an owner complaining so much that they went and bought another make of car then yes I would want to know about the faults. I would not just refute them as you do.
    Further for the cost of the rib and public relations I would go out of my way to refund them not because I am soft but because I am a businessman that wishes to preserve my business.
    Again if I was running the business because I like to develop new things and was rich enough to do that as you claim, I would not want my customers to suffer because of my development problems.

    Its as if you paint a picture where the rest of the world is wrong and you are the poor misunderstood professor but that is not the case.

    The case is that you make claims that are not true, refuse to accept even simple facts that are in front of your face and then expect others to pay for your 'hobby'.

    My advice to you in these emails is good advice for you. I am trying to spell out the problem you have with your public relations and how that could really ruin your business. You claim you are service orientated but then act as if the customer was the last person on earth you care about. You do the words but you do not do the walk.

    Paul
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

  16. #36

    Default Re: Simply Amazing Customer Support

    A few facts:
    The St Francis 48 is actually called a Africa St Francis 48 as agreed with Duncan Lethbridge the owner of St Francis marine
    I have never called it a FastCat and have never said it was produced by my company.
    As can be seen here the St Francis 48 is called "FastCat 50" from about april 2004 and onwards.

    I'm also attaching the original delivery report Durban - Miami found here.

    The Internet is wonderful/terrifying depending on your perspective.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by taifun; 26th July 2009 at 04:13 PM. Reason: gnilleps

  17. #37
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    Default Re: Simply Amazing Customer Support

    I have sent this to Gideon:-
    Gideon
    A response on the forum has produced proof that you used to call the St Francis 48 a Fastcat 50.

    I remember it being called a Fastcat 48.

    There is no doubt it was called a Fastcat and I struggle with your denial of this.

    Can you please agree that you used to call the boat a Fastcat?

    I think a big part of the problem is that because so many facts are just denied it is very difficult to even get down to the basic points with you and that frustrates many people.

    Cheers

    Paul
    Safe Sailing
    Paul
    Blog: www.suliere.com

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Simply Amazing Customer Support

    Very interesting!

    http://web.archive.org/web/200610152...nf.asp?boot=10
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  19. #39

    Default Re: Simply Amazing Customer Support

    The St Francis 48 is actually called a Africa St Francis 48 as agreed with Duncan Lethbridge the owner of St Francis marine
    I have never called it a FastCat and have never said it was produced by my company.
    Really? Empirical proof you did:
    http://web.archive.org/web/200406220..._inf.asp?id=24
    And as far as being produced by your company, no you don't specifically say that. But if you can not draw the conclusion that by placing that text on your company website to see, and in the manor it was written, that all the interested world would not think you were representing it as being produced by you, then you sir - are hopeless. You might as well close your doors now, because you will never make it (not even as a hobby).

    Further, this sort of thing has been commonplace with you; To take a tiny bit of truth and stretch it to meet whatever twisted goal you might have. Take the Green Motion thing. When you first started talking about it, you did so as if it was a production system. If you would not have been challenged by someone who knew better, like Nordic, you would have let everyone believe that is was much farther along in development, You know, just like Charles Kanter thought.

    Keep digging. If I were pressed enough, I could write a book using old posts from you to present un-truths and half truths that lead people to believe what you want them to believe, and not reality. So I ask, Do you now accept that you misrepresented a St. Francis 48 as a Fastcat 48?

    Hint: Just say "my bad, I shouldn't have done that. I will now focus on making everything right for current owners, including making right the RIB situation for Butterfly."
    Last edited by KGP; 26th July 2009 at 04:11 PM.

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Pacific Ocean/N. American coast
    Posts
    432

    Default Re: Simply Amazing Customer Support

    Also: http://www.africancatstest.nl/boten_inf.asp?boot=24

    And just for fun, click on "50 Lay-Out" from the link I posted a couple of posts back, which takes you to http://web.archive.org/web/200610152...angement50.pdf and see who Lavranos designed that for...

    And here... http://www.yachtvision.com/html/bote...r&Preis=749000 which has pictures of the St. Francis 48 "Pegasus".

    The "Fastcat 50" has mysteriously disappeared from the africancats website "models" list, but I think we have effectively proven that not only are the "Fastcat 48" and "Fastcat 50" the same boat, it is without a doubt the St. Francis 48 formerly names "Pegasus".

    St. Francis makes very very nice boats (we were seriously looking at a St. Francis 43). But I think I'll buy a St. Francis that is clearly a St. Francis, given the choice. To paraphrase a comment I saw on another forum once: "Duncan is the sort of guy you want to buy a boat from".
    Last edited by scotte; 26th July 2009 at 04:13 PM.

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